Welder/Plasma Cutter Advise/Opinions

[NPilot1975]

I am thinking hard about buying a welder and maybe a plasma cutter when I get back to the states. I was looking around and like the looks of the Miller Electric Mig Welders (not sure which to get yet.) I plan to do some frame work, general welding, and maybe with some practice some body work. Hate to admit it, but I am a novice when it comes to welding. Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

[mrein3]

There has been quite a few threads about this in the past. Lots of folks here will advise you to buy a 110V "MiG" welder from Home Depot for $350-$400. I would advise against that. I waited until I could afford the "next step up". Then I went to a local welding shop and spent a few extra dollars there for the better service.

I walked out of there with a Millermatic 175, a 10 pound spool of wire, an auto darkening helmet, and a bottle of co2/Argon gas for right around $1000.

The 175 runs on 220V, single phase house current.

I can do light sheet metal with the .024 wire. I can also do bigger stuff with .030 wire.

As far as plasma cutters go I have only used them in a vo-tech class I took. One thing the instructor said that I remember,
"When you strike an arc you better know where you are going because you are going to get there fast."
He was right. Those things cut fast. However in my home shop I still haven't got to a place where I said to myself that I wished I had a plasma cutter.

If the means are available I would also advise you to take a class. I took one at the local high school that was offered through St. Paul Technical College. I learned more there for $80 than I could have in the two years I have owned my welder.

[cdowns]

like mrein said spend it all on yhe welder to start off, spend 50bucks on a jigsaw and bimetal blades to cut your metal for now

[arkracing]

I've welded with both Miller's and Lincoln's - I preffer the Miller's but that might be personal opinion.

I also agree with getting a Millermatic175 or Higher if you plan on doing heavier stuff and sheetmetal. you can change the wire easy enough and the 175 should be enough to handle and normal frame welding.



as far as plasma cutters....i've also been looking into these. Most welding companies make them (i.e. Miller, Lincoln, Esab, etc.) But I've been told by several welding professionals including a department head @ the local Tech school that these companies are more known for "Welding" not Plasma Arc Cutters.

There is a company called "Thermo-Dynamics" makes Plasma Cutters....it is thier specialty so they have very fine tuned machines that are pretty nice in my opinion

http://www.thermadyne.com/tdc/index.asp?div=tdc

cyberweld.com carries them as well as your local welding supplier

[NPilot1975]

mrein3-

I was looking at the 175 myself. I am glad to hear that it is good. I was planning on taking a welding class as long as I can find one offered when I get settled in Pensacola. Thanx for the advise.

[Rod]

3 good forums on such stuff are

http://www.millermotorsports.com/mbo...isplay.php?f=3

http://hobartwelders.com/mboard/forumdisplay.php?f=3

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/...splay.php?f=13

All three are good at discussing most any brand. It can help to know what others think and have experienced.

Their search feature works too for non-registered users also.

[meathead95]

i have a 175 as well and i love it.

[Bobalouie]

i bought the Miller Passport 180 and love it. It makes my sorry butt look like I am a pro welder. Everyone who has used it has loved it. You cant go wrong with Miller.

[Slammed67]

I bought a Millermatic 210 a couple months ago but haven't had a chance to use it much. I recently did an electrical upgrade at my house and just within the last couple weeks ran a 220V circuit up to the garage. I did do a test weld on some scrap 3/16" plate and was very happy with the results. The 210 may be more welder than I need at the moment, but I guess it's better than not having enough. I also have a Millermatic 130 that I bought about 9 years ago and have been pretty happy with it also. The 210 has a much better wire feeding mechanism though.

[HugrOrang71]

I have a Millermatic 250 set up for doing heavy work and can be quick changed for aluminum and a Lincoln 135, 110V for sheetmetal and light gauge stuff. Both work great for their intended purpose. I have used several different brands over the years, but have been impressed with the quality of these 2 companies. I have heard that Miller is now owned by the same company as Hobart and the quality gone down a little bit, but I can't confirm it. A fabricator friend of mine has an ESAB in his shop and has been really impressed with the quality.

When shopping for plasma cutting machines, I would consider only 2 brands, Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics for a non manufacturing application. I have spent a lot of time with both of them and they are good units. When comparing, look at the duty cycle and cutting capacity.

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by HugrOrang71

I have a Millermatic 250 set up for doing heavy work and can be quick changed for aluminum and a Lincoln 135, 110V for sheetmetal and light gauge stuff. Both work great for their intended purpose.

Is your reasoning behind the 2 machines because you don't want to change the setting/wire size every time you change what your welding? or is the Lincoln a better machine for Light Duty?


I'm looking in to getting the new Millermatic 251 (with the infinate voltage{digital}/wire control) the 210 doesn't have the infinate voltage control i don't think

[Rollie396]

Originally Posted by arkracing

Is your reasoning behind the 2 machines because you don't want to change the setting/wire size every time you change what your welding? or is the Lincoln a better machine for Light Duty?


I'm looking in to getting the new Millermatic 251 (with the infinate voltage{digital}/wire control) the 210 doesn't have the infinate voltage control i don't think

you're right,the 210 doesn't have infinite volts.Another nice advantage of the 251 is the fan on demand system.You don't have to listen to fan all the time like you do with the 210.I love my 210,but I wish I woulda had the extra grand for a 251.

[HugrOrang71]

Originally Posted by arkracing

Is your reasoning behind the 2 machines because you don't want to change the setting/wire size every time you change what your welding? or is the Lincoln a better machine for Light Duty?

Yes,mostly. The 250 stays set up with .035 wire. I very rarely use the aluminum setup, so it doesn't get changed much. I feel that the smaller Lincoln does a better job with lighter gauge stuff. I can crank up the voltage and get better penetration with the 135. Even with .023 wire, I couldn't seem to turn the heat down far enough on the larger machine. I've done it, but I wasn't happy with how the welds looked.
Could be something wrong with it, although its been checked out before.

I have a antique Linde +200 amp at work that works really well on light gauge stuff. Works really good for building exhaust, turbo outlets etc.

Jason

[Rod]

Being that I searched up some of this stuff I'll save you some time.

Miller and Hobart are both owned by ITW now.

In regards to Plasmas: Hypertherms Power Max, Millers Spectrum and Hobart Airforce series are the same up to the 600 series...they're exact same machines...except for Miller / Hobart use there own consumables in their plasma torch handle. There is no real difference between those 3 except for the model number of torch handle and the consumables.
Thermal Dynamics call theirs a Cutmaster series and are unto themselves but have been getting good reviews on their patented "1 torch"..seems its nice to handle and has a variety of tips that interchange for drag cutting, piercing or standoff cutting. They also have a full line of different cutting ranges.

Basically I learned up on the 3/8 cutting range machines.

I tried 1 out too...and a 3/8 cut would be slow but possible...most companies rate their machines in ideal condition...which when you look at the specs....,they are stating best condition of altitude, humidity, temperature... its not the average garage conditions.
Power supply connections and conditions are necessary also...on the 120 volt side of the 120-240 volt machines I dont think you'll get the best performance. I tried a Hypertherm Powermax 380 on 120 volts 30 amp service and it cut 1/4 inch not to badly...I was sizing up something that I could cut a frame up with.

They all patten something to try and have some advantage for a few years anyway.
Looks like the Thermal Dynamics cutmasters may have the best torch right now...but they also make kits to put their torch on most machines. The cutmaster are not the cleanest lines looking machine.
The Hobarts, Millers, Hypertherm all only use one tip for everything in their 3/8 's Hobart 400, Miller Spectrum 375 or the Hypertherm 380.

The smaller 1/8 machines with the built in air compressors are best for sheetmetal guys ..furnaces air- conditioning duct work..that kinda thing..the 600 series is something I think would be best for truck work... a little overkill also. Thermal dymanics call thiers a Cutmaster 51 I think. Basically the machines are all near then same range in classes /sizes of cut and they try to make one sound bigger by the numbers they use.

When you get to the 600 series the machines are 240 volt.. while the smaller 3/8th's machines are both 120 or 240 volt.

You need a minimum 4.5 cfm at 60 PSI compressor for the 3/8 series plasma cutters. Clean dry air is a must for best cut and consumables life.


Hey it's all just my Humble opinion.

So basically there 1/4 inch series 3/8 series and 1/2 in series which I think are applicable to truck modification needs.

When you go bigger than the 600 series, the manufactures are all making their own machines between the Miller/Hobart and Hypertherm machines. Thermal Dynamics make their own also in all ranges.

I dont know much about the Esab or Lincoln machines...never researched those ones. Heard some good things on the Lincolns though too.

You hears about staying away from the really odd foreign stuff. Might be cheaper...but you might get what you pay for also.

Basically its a get as big as you afford they say.

Body work I think you would be good with a 2nd step up model such as the 375-380-400 / 38 machines.


As for the 175 class of machine..well the Hobart 180 is a decent choice for the money its worth. The Miller 175 has infinite setting for wirespeed and voltage as does the Lincoln 175SP+.

On the mesasge boards I've looked at recently...seems the Lincoln 175SP+ is suddenly top of the choice list....last month it was Hobart 180 for beginners as it has taps controls..as in you click to a power range and not dial it up ...dialing it up you can get between ranges. Some prefer that, some dont.

Seems the best over all machine if you want to at least weld 1/4 inch and aluminum in the future with a spool gun the recommendation is the Miller 210 on most boards... the Miller 251 I think is the premium machine.

Now Miller Mig machines now also have a range of machine called a DVI / dual voltage that will run at 120 or 240 volts.....and a passport machine 120-240 volts in a suitcase looking unit.


Basically at the 175 range your into 240 volt single phase power.

The 120 volt smaller machines do have a portability advantage.

The 175 range you can still move around between locations fairly easily....once you hit the 210 class your pretty much looking at a home use or shop location type setting.


Check the Miller and Hobart message boards and manufacturers web sites....it's all good stuff. People freely comment on all brands on the message boards I listed above.

I think I spent enough time looking at all my possible options.. it's a thing or two to think about.

Rod

[NPilot1975]

Thanx Rod. I learned a lot from your discussion of the machines. I plan on shopping around and figuring out what exactly I am going to do. I want to be able to use the welder/plasma cutter for anything related to automobiles. I think anything rated 1/4" or close is plenty, considering I am not planning on working on much more than a car frame (3/16" thick if I remember correctly.)

Jamison

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by NPilot1975

Thanx Rod. I learned a lot from your discussion of the machines. I plan on shopping around and figuring out what exactly I am going to do. I want to be able to use the welder/plasma cutter for anything related to automobiles. I think anything rated 1/4" or close is plenty, considering I am not planning on working on much more than a car frame (3/16" thick if I remember correctly.)

Jamison

If you plan on cutting 1/4" or 3/16" i would suggest looking into a machine a step up from that range of operation. most machines are rated in ideal conditions as Rod said - if it has a 1/4" cutting capacity it might cut 1/4" but it may not cut it well or quickly.

and you'll end up wanting to cut something that is 3/8" anyway and will be mad that your machine won't do it

[Rod]

I call them a 3/8 machine although the spec say they will sever a 1/2 thick piece.

As for the owners of both ranges of migs ...the smaller 135 size machines and a 251..well they got the best of both capabilities typically sought after. Sheet metal for smaller one and bigger machine for the critical welds.
And the 210 has tap controls..not the infinite.

heres another page to compare specs on a variety of plasma cutters,

http://www.thefabricator.com/Buyers_...04_MPAC_BG.cfm

[arkracing]

Originally Posted by Rod

I call them a 3/8 machine although the spec say they will sever a 1/2 thick piece.

As for the owners of both ranges of migs ...the smaller 135 size machines and a 251..well they got the best of both capabilities typically sought after. Sheet metal for smaller one and bigger machine for the critical welds.
And the 210 has tap controls..not the infinite.

Yeh I didn't think the 210 had infinite that's why i think i'm going to go with the 251

But won't the 251 weld sheetmetal just as well as the 135 size - if you just switch your wire size/wire speed/voltage?

I want to buy a Millermatic 251 and I really don't want to buy 2 machines. Although it is nice to have one set up just for sheetmetal - for some it might be a little $$$

[Rod]

Basically the lower the amps the thinner the metal it should be able to weld.... the 135 has a lower amp rating than the 251. The higher the amps the bigger the metal gauge it can weld.

It's the skill after that. I saw my neighbour use a 175 and do what message board members said it couldn't do.

The 251 is a prime machine..dont let it be said I tried to talk you out of it. If you can do it...go for it. Use smaller gauge wire and gas and you'll develop the sheetmetal skills too.

Ask on the miller or hobart boards or search their threads...its a fine place to find out the info.

You'll see how quite a few people go bigger after a while...you'll be there already with a 251.

If I had the shop with the power supply and space, I'd own one if possible.

[Kid]

I own a Cutmaster 38 & am very happy with it. I have severed 7/8" plate with it, was real slow though. It will do 1/4" all day long.
As for welders, you wont go wrong with Lincoln or Miller, If your funds allow, you might consider a tig welder. they are much more flexable. I would be lost with out mine (Lincoln tig). Once you get one, you will never want to do without again.