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06-03-2006, 05:31 PM | #1 |
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headers / ram horns
i have the old ram horns on my 283 , would there be alot or much more power with a set of cheep headers . never ran a set of ram horns before ......
Last edited by mudpuppie; 06-03-2006 at 05:32 PM. |
06-03-2006, 05:38 PM | #2 |
its all about the +6 inches
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Re: headers / ram horns
You'll have ppl tell you that cheap headers are 10 times better than the best manifolds, and all kinds of BS.
However, that's not always true...actually, that specific claim would never be true. The smaller the engine displacement, and the lower the power level, and the lower the RPMs are... the less headers will do for you. Cheap headers normally suck. They are a pain to install, they are a pain to work around, they are thin, which makes them louder and shorter lived due to rust, they have crappy surfaces, which leads to more blown header gaskets, and, they simply aren't made very good. Some headers will flow WORSE than manifolds, plus, the ram horns found on these trucks, are some of the best flowing manifolds made. I say skip the cheap headers... odds are, you'll never be happy with them. This is one area where you really get what you pay for. |
06-03-2006, 06:02 PM | #3 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
wasnt the 283 a higher rpm engine ?
power mostly on the upper end ? |
06-03-2006, 06:22 PM | #4 |
Fabricate till you "puke"
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Re: headers / ram horns
I am a "diehard" header fan, but do agree that cheap in not good here! I do believe that you will pick up some power by running headers/ duals, & a small 4brl carb on your 283. I reccomend Hooker comps $140 through summit or jegs(painted), & they have nice thick flanges & 16 guage tubes. You need to verify the fit with stick shift, but I run a #2452 Hooker on my longhorn. You will want to keep the exaust pipe size down to 2" on the 283, so you dont give up the low end grunt. Add a 1 3/4" H pipe, & a decent set of mufflers(Dynomax super turbos for cheap/good), & set the tail pipes how you like (side exit if you like to HEAR it), or rear exit for more mellow. Again, keep the pipe size down to 2", & add your 3 x 16 " chrome cans to the ends for a deeper sound. A used Edelbrock performer, with a fresh 500, or 600 cfm edelbrock carb should work nice on top. Go for the elect choke versions, as they are calibrated a little leaner(good for the smaller cube eng). You wont find a "magical" extra 100 hp, but you will find some extra spunk from the old 283. best of luck...... L
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69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears.... |
06-03-2006, 06:58 PM | #5 |
its all about the +6 inches
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Re: headers / ram horns
Some 283 engines were high RPM engines...but not the ones found in trucks. Just like the 327, 396, and a hand full of 350's all had high RPM hardware stock... but again, not in pick ups. (excluding the El Camino)
I'll agree with crazy longhorn, and I had the same headers he is talking about (the price has come down quite a bit) and they were quite nice. However, I doubt you'll see any improvement from ram horns to headers. Last edited by Longhorn Man; 06-03-2006 at 06:58 PM. |
06-03-2006, 07:17 PM | #6 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Thinking of Summit brand (Heard they were reboxed Dynomax)headers 18ga $86 +$6 bucks shipping
or Flow Tech 16 ga $104 + 6% tax (lifetime replacement) Then use the ceramic based VHT header paint. Which is best? Thanks Shane
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1993 K1500 350 5 speed 1985 K10 Silverado Vortec 406 5 speed (in body shop) "I been drivin' this '85 pickup truck Them buddies of mine call it a bucket of rust She's a little beat up but she still runs like the wind Yeah, kinda like me I been banged and bruisedBeen around the block a time or two But I'm runnin' like new goin' places I never been No, I ain't broke I'm just broken in" 1963 Dodge Townwagon(its amazng what 30 years and zero miles will do to a vehicle ) Member#20327 Last edited by Chevrolet4x4s; 06-03-2006 at 07:18 PM. |
06-03-2006, 08:22 PM | #7 | |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Quote:
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06-03-2006, 10:14 PM | #8 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Just the 1500(or 1200 can't remember one of the two) degree headder paint in the rattle can their website says its ceramic based or something to that effect I think its like 5 bucks a can
Shane
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1993 K1500 350 5 speed 1985 K10 Silverado Vortec 406 5 speed (in body shop) "I been drivin' this '85 pickup truck Them buddies of mine call it a bucket of rust She's a little beat up but she still runs like the wind Yeah, kinda like me I been banged and bruisedBeen around the block a time or two But I'm runnin' like new goin' places I never been No, I ain't broke I'm just broken in" 1963 Dodge Townwagon(its amazng what 30 years and zero miles will do to a vehicle ) Member#20327 |
06-03-2006, 10:17 PM | #9 |
its all about the +6 inches
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Location: Hilliard Ohio
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Re: headers / ram horns
that ceramic paint is ok, but it's not like the ceramic coat you are probably thinkin about. I used it and it worked better than normal spray bomb, but still nothing to write home about.
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06-04-2006, 12:56 AM | #10 |
Keep On Truckin'
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Re: headers / ram horns
Is it a daily driver or a ground pounder? These trucks are not power mongers due to weight, aerodynamics and displacement in the case of a 283.... If you go with headers consider investing in wave-lock washers so you don’t have to keep bending over the fender tightening header bolts. Eastwood makes a great manifold coating if you stay with ram horns.
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06-04-2006, 01:04 AM | #11 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
I have run Hedman headers on all my trucks and never had a problem with bolts coming loose. I tighten them very tight once...drive the truck about 20 miles at 60mph or above then retighten if necessary.
I recommend only one brand of header for both fit and finish as well as power. Hedman makes a great set of street headers and Summit sell them for $135 + $10 shipping. The number is 69230...they are 16 ga. and have 1/4" flanges. I've had bad luck with Hookers on cars [boy that's askin' for it huh?]. They don't fit well and they usually don't last long before rusting out. I have a buddy who owns an exhuast shop in Dallas, he will not install anything but Hedmans. I've never seen less than a 10hp increase with headers on 350's...not sure about smaller motors though.
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06-04-2006, 01:05 AM | #12 |
Still drivin' a Rat Rod
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Re: headers / ram horns
the ramhorns are less problematic than headers,of any brand.Get a nice set of headers if you get them.they are a PITA to change plugs though,and constantly working loose,or at least all my experiances are that way.
For a DD stock/mild engine,I'd stay with ramhorns,just my .02.
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06-04-2006, 07:01 AM | #13 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
I use headers on everything unless I want it original.Corvette ramshorns look original,yet have larger outlets and are the best manifold to use.I`ve never thought of headers as hard to put on,keep up,or had any leaking problems to sway me away.I hate dealing with donut gaskets on manifolds.I had dual exhaust bent from ramshorns-back on my`71 CustomCamper/20 because it was absolutely a sweet all original,right before leaving for the Grand Canyon.Coming down from the North Rim the right manilfold blew-out,cast iron fatigue.We got to an exhaust shop(Muffler Magic)in Flagstaff and he checked around for a manifold,no luck.He put on "cheap" headers,all he could find.I was using Blackjack AK5000s (aluminum coated) back then,but none were in town.My brand new pipes had to be cut and "doglegged" to fit these cheapo headers,really bugged me.Well,they were on that truck from`89-`03 before I replaced the collector gaskets,only had to tighten the flanges on the heads a couple times,and the black paint was burned off before I got back to Maryland.The truck sat (outside)most of the time and those headers had no paint for all those years.
The first headers I ever bought were cheap.I painted them with VHT and it came back off with the crap-for-paint that came on them,go figure.When I rebuilt the motor a year or so later I sandblasted the headers and sprayed VHT on them.It stuck on them forever,as well as any $200 ceramic-coat job.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ Last edited by special-K; 06-04-2006 at 07:05 AM. |
06-04-2006, 08:34 PM | #14 | |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Quote:
for spark plug clearance, the best thing i've found are the accel shorty headers plug, they're about 1" shorter than regualr plugs and mak elif much easier with headers, no more breakin plugs when installing them. chris.
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its a work in progess. 71 c-10 lwb, in the middle of frame off restoration. 69 c-10 swb, drag truck, 406 sbc, balanced, comp 292 cam, ported, polished, gasket matched, and bowl blended pro comp 210cc heads, 2.02/1.60 ferrea valves,1.6 roller rockers, re curved hei with msd 6al box, 2-step rev limter, accel 300+ wires, ported victor jr intake, holley 750 double pumper carb, dynomax 1 5/8 headers, 4 spd munci m-20 with super case and iron midplate, mr. gasket vertigate shifter, 5.38 pro gears with full spool, 33 spline moser axles and c-clip elimators, line-loc, 5 gal fuel cell, holley blue pump. 7.807 @ 88.37mph 1.60 60FT 80 g-20 van, tow rig, cammed 305, th350, 10 bolt 88 jeep wrangler, dd, 258, ax-15 swap, 4.5" lift, 33x12.50's, lockers, 3.55's |
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06-06-2006, 11:41 PM | #15 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
How was the fitment of the flowtechs?How close is it to fitting the exhaust for the manafolds after you cut off the dogleg into the engine compartment?
Thanks Shane
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1993 K1500 350 5 speed 1985 K10 Silverado Vortec 406 5 speed (in body shop) "I been drivin' this '85 pickup truck Them buddies of mine call it a bucket of rust She's a little beat up but she still runs like the wind Yeah, kinda like me I been banged and bruisedBeen around the block a time or two But I'm runnin' like new goin' places I never been No, I ain't broke I'm just broken in" 1963 Dodge Townwagon(its amazng what 30 years and zero miles will do to a vehicle ) Member#20327 |
06-07-2006, 04:35 PM | #16 | |
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Re: headers / ram horns
fitments real good, clear the z-bar with out an changes. what kinda dog leg are you talkin about? chris.
Quote:
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its a work in progess. 71 c-10 lwb, in the middle of frame off restoration. 69 c-10 swb, drag truck, 406 sbc, balanced, comp 292 cam, ported, polished, gasket matched, and bowl blended pro comp 210cc heads, 2.02/1.60 ferrea valves,1.6 roller rockers, re curved hei with msd 6al box, 2-step rev limter, accel 300+ wires, ported victor jr intake, holley 750 double pumper carb, dynomax 1 5/8 headers, 4 spd munci m-20 with super case and iron midplate, mr. gasket vertigate shifter, 5.38 pro gears with full spool, 33 spline moser axles and c-clip elimators, line-loc, 5 gal fuel cell, holley blue pump. 7.807 @ 88.37mph 1.60 60FT 80 g-20 van, tow rig, cammed 305, th350, 10 bolt 88 jeep wrangler, dd, 258, ax-15 swap, 4.5" lift, 33x12.50's, lockers, 3.55's |
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06-07-2006, 05:56 AM | #17 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Anyone use "shorty" center dump headers on a 4wd which would have had center dump manifolds from factory.I`m thinking this makes a great solution to z-bar issues.
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"BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ |
06-07-2006, 09:11 AM | #18 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
How do you measure HP gain from headers?? My experience has been that i lost 2 mpg and some significant low end torque with Hooker headers and another 2 mpg from sticking an edelbrock intake on my crate 350. Headers tend to be loud and not necessarly cool sounding.
It's kind of like throwing stuff on a motor to beef up the HP--bigger carb, edelbrock intake, headers--all i've seen is a drop in torque and mpg!!. When I backed them off, the mpg and torque went right back up. According to my engine rebuilder, sticking a different intake and headers without changing the cam is like running premium gas in a stock engine. A waste of money!? Most engine performance shops will tell you the easiest HP gain is from the CAM. You are not getting the bang for the buck with headers. Or course the stock exhaust manifolds do tend to crack and break which is a different problem but just don't expect a quantum leap in anything but noise from headers. My experience~~. |
06-07-2006, 12:31 PM | #19 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
quote from Huck
According to my engine rebuilder, sticking a different intake and headers without changing the cam is like running premium gas in a stock engine. A waste of money!? Most engine performance shops will tell you the easiest HP gain is from the CAM. Well, yes and no, any one bolt on will not make a night and day deal, but a series of parts will help. Just changing a cam won't do it either unless the heads can flow to the lift of the cam, as well as the intake, carb and exhaust. Changing manifolds for headers will give a small increase, especially if the manifolds are smoggers, (I have a set of BBC manifolds off a 70's 454 with a dimple in the end of the manifold where the four ports converge to dump out, wtf?) headers uncorked that ASAP! In a 283, you are kinda rubbing polish on a turd, but all the upgrades to the 283 can then be transferred to a 327, 350, 383, 400, 406..... So do it, if unhappy, focus on replacing the engine, there is no replacement for displacement, nuff said! Last edited by 70rs/ss; 06-07-2006 at 12:34 PM. |
06-07-2006, 03:43 PM | #20 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
I thought that headers were supposed to give you about 2mpg.also tipicaly bigtube headers cause the loss of low end torque but build high end hp.
Shane
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1993 K1500 350 5 speed 1985 K10 Silverado Vortec 406 5 speed (in body shop) "I been drivin' this '85 pickup truck Them buddies of mine call it a bucket of rust She's a little beat up but she still runs like the wind Yeah, kinda like me I been banged and bruisedBeen around the block a time or two But I'm runnin' like new goin' places I never been No, I ain't broke I'm just broken in" 1963 Dodge Townwagon(its amazng what 30 years and zero miles will do to a vehicle ) Member#20327 |
06-08-2006, 10:14 AM | #21 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
the dog leg I am talking about is the turn up in the pipe that connects to the dump on the manafold.
Shane
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1993 K1500 350 5 speed 1985 K10 Silverado Vortec 406 5 speed (in body shop) "I been drivin' this '85 pickup truck Them buddies of mine call it a bucket of rust She's a little beat up but she still runs like the wind Yeah, kinda like me I been banged and bruisedBeen around the block a time or two But I'm runnin' like new goin' places I never been No, I ain't broke I'm just broken in" 1963 Dodge Townwagon(its amazng what 30 years and zero miles will do to a vehicle ) Member#20327 |
06-08-2006, 09:12 PM | #22 | |
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Re: headers / ram horns
can't tell ya. the exhaust came off a parts truck that had headers with dual runnin all the way back, u cut and re welded them so the dump before the rear tires. chris.
Quote:
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its a work in progess. 71 c-10 lwb, in the middle of frame off restoration. 69 c-10 swb, drag truck, 406 sbc, balanced, comp 292 cam, ported, polished, gasket matched, and bowl blended pro comp 210cc heads, 2.02/1.60 ferrea valves,1.6 roller rockers, re curved hei with msd 6al box, 2-step rev limter, accel 300+ wires, ported victor jr intake, holley 750 double pumper carb, dynomax 1 5/8 headers, 4 spd munci m-20 with super case and iron midplate, mr. gasket vertigate shifter, 5.38 pro gears with full spool, 33 spline moser axles and c-clip elimators, line-loc, 5 gal fuel cell, holley blue pump. 7.807 @ 88.37mph 1.60 60FT 80 g-20 van, tow rig, cammed 305, th350, 10 bolt 88 jeep wrangler, dd, 258, ax-15 swap, 4.5" lift, 33x12.50's, lockers, 3.55's |
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06-08-2006, 03:48 PM | #23 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
My personal favorite is to smooth out a pair of ramshorns, them either have them chromed or ceramic coated (which I am doing).
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06-08-2006, 11:34 PM | #24 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
Whole lot of opinions. I love ramhorns, but they are too rare and expensive in my neck of the woods, so I run headers. Cheap way to do duals. I have yet to feel the difference in the seat of my pants,from headers. I used to race hobby stock on a rough dirt track in my younger days, and switched to stock manifolds, cause the track would ripp a set of headers off in half a season of racing. There was no big difference that we found. So there you go, another opinion. If I could get some 2.5" ram horns for cheep I'ld go with them. Nothin says cool like ramhorns.
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06-09-2006, 08:55 PM | #25 |
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Re: headers / ram horns
thaks all , will stick with the rams for looks , and want have to pay for manifolds ...
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