i hate the a/c business

[mtdave2]

have called around the san antonio area, and i have been quoted 600-750 for a compleat compressor job. is this really a justified amount? or are these people just taking advantage?

the way i figure it comes out to maybe 300 tops in parts. wtf is the rest for? labor? 4 or 5 hrs labor is what they all say? seams a bit much, but maybe it does take this long i dont know.

i dont mind people making a living, but this really seems beyond fair to me. its no wonder people are willing to try the cheap crap, and the self recharge kits.

other thing that seems odd to me, is if i go to the shop 1 pound low in my 4 pound system. they take all my freon, then charge me for 4 full pounds at full rate. wtf? sure, they have to pay for the machine to claime and recycle the stuff. then why not sell that stuff at a discount, its mine for $@#$@ sake.

it would make more sence for my to just vent the freon in the air, repalce all the parts myself, or at least the compressor, then take it to the shop and have then evac, and fill it. (im sure there is osmething im missing?) im not the type to do that, but i sure want to out of spite. if im paying for all 4 dam pounds, i want them to come up with it.

i have also been told that you dont want to mix freon. like the freez and the other stuff. becasue the a.c places charge more to reclaime it. (its cuz they cant resell it) no wonder people just vent the stuff.

this is a 72 chevy truck for godsake, not a freakin high $ sprots car. wtf is up with these people.

[68 Suburban]

If it is R-12, most places in Phx are charging $60-80 a pound!!!

[oldyeller]

well, this is why I like to have the ability to do it myself. Here is a poor mans reclaim. it will work for your prob. too. first off, freon will flow to the coldest area in a system, so what I do is get a empty freon drum, I use the one that WAS filled with R-22 at one time and will fit inside a 5 gal bucket. pump the drum down to around 25 to 29 lbs of vacuum, and sit it in the deep freeze over night. next day, (preferably 90 degrees plus in the work area) put the drum in the bucket, along with ice cold water and plenty of ice. put it at the lowest point you can get next to the truck, hook the hose to the drum, and the low side of the ac system, and open the valve on the can. Between the vac and cold of the drum and the heat and pressure of the ac system, about 95% or more of the freon will now be in the drum. It would probably work better if the truck was just driven, because it would be hotter then, and a set of gauges inline with the drum would be good for monitoring purposes.

Also, if you are going to drain the system, might as well go back with r-134a, it will be cheaper and easier to find in the future. The retrofit is simple, and I have yet to change any components due to r 134a, (have done about 8 cars now) might have a couple a seals to replace though. I bet for what they would charge you, you could buy everything to do it yourself the poor mans way, the hardest things to find would probably be the Vacuum pump and a empty drum..

no, I don't do this for a living, so take this as you will, but it works for me..

[Hutch]

That is about the going rate, you do want to get it done properly.
After I bought and replaced all the parts on mine.
The charge evac and covert and fill with r134a and oil was right at $450.00

Good luck

[tom hand]

Thats why I said screw it and put a vintage air on mine. Now every part of my A/C is new and it works much better than the factory air ever did. It was designed for r-134a so it blows much colder than simple converstions. And it only cost a little more than what they want to fix yours.

[treefrog]

I'm having problems with the locals on replacing items as well. Like you, everybody has to make a living, but there are limits.
The local wants $ 220 for a rebuild compressor, GMC Paul has one with clutch for $ 145. Local evaporator $ 225, GPC Paul $ 180, etc. Might be worth a look. That's where I'm going. TF

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Just got a price the other day for a rebuilt Delco compressor from my local supplier for $125. ('71 Impala application)

[Michael A. K. G]

Originally posted by mtdave2

it would make more sence for my to just vent the freon in the air, repalce all the parts myself, or at least the compressor, then take it to the shop and have then evac, and fill it.

Really? A $10,500 EPA fine is cheaper than a $600 shop charge? I guess I never really did understand math, then.

[C10 - C90 Bill]

Hey Michael, A $10,500 Fine??? Is that a CA state law or federal?

[mtdave2]

im not going to vent the stuff, but i bet 90% would.

i could be wrong here and that pricing is fair. i just am waiting for someone to explain it. i ahve this same post on an a/c board. full of a/c pros. the only reply i have had was

" I'm a DIY'r who feels sorry for shops that have to deal with this mindset ,What need or desire do you "take advantage" of to make your living?

no rebuttle on my points, no atempt to educate me as to why they charge this amount of money.

[smitty62]

There is not a thing wrong with replacing all the needed components and having someone evac and refill. If they don't like it--move down the street. Just plain foolish to refill with R12 tho unless system is just down a pound or so. The idea that R12 is better than R134 is just silly--mine cools fine. As someone mentioned, you have to watch out or you'll end up with more $ in it than a new Vintage system--which will work better and more effecient--just not original if that's your hangup. All the dash outlets, etc could remain the same with a new unit.

[busterwivell]

I agree with Tom Hand. My 71 has non-working A/C. Didn't work when I bought it. I'm in the process now of switching to a 700R4 from a granny gear 4 speed. When that is done and 55 MPH is 2100 RPM instead of 3000, I'm buying a NEW Vintage Air system for my truck to replace the 30 year old non-working system. I think the new system will be a lot less trouble than the old system. When I'm done, however, if someone wants to buy the old system, let me know.

[ChevLoRay]

If you just want to LOOK cool, drive around with the windows UP! Nobody will know, but you.

It kinda sux that things cost as much to fix/redo/buy, as they do. However, in today's enviroment, the EPA has the upper hand.

I have three 1-lb cans of R-12 that I'm saving for my retirement years...plan on cashing them in by selling them on ebay! Should get enough to make a payment on the new Class A motor home I plan to have by then....whaddayathink?

[smitty62]

I think you should sell now--there won't be in demand in the near future. I had a 30# canister of R12 and sold it for $300--I had given $65 for it so I'm happy.

[Michael A. K. G]

Originally posted by C10 - C90 Bill
Hey Michael, A $10,500 Fine??? Is that a CA state law or federal?

The EPA is a Federal agency.

[red71cheyenne]

You can still get R-12 at most A/C places. I had mine refilled in MO when I drove across last year and it cost $250 just for the freon. That was with them fixing my attempt at converting to R134. The compressor acts like it is going to go out, but it still cools just fine. I'm sure sometime that I'll replace it, but it will be with the original style rebuilt compressor. I don't know if one is better than the other, but it was much cheaper to stay with the old stuff and just have them fill it. My .02 cents, Jeff.

[weasel29gm]

A guy that I work with just spent $ 1400 on a system for his 67. And he thought he got a good deal I'll stay with a 2- 70 air myself !!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!

[Leinie]

I just talked to a local radiator and a/c guy about my blazer. My compressor is shot and has not worked for a few years.
He told me ( without hooking up any gauges) $600-700 minimum
That's to install the new compressor- and the brackets because I switched motors- new dryer- evacuate and recharge the system.
$ 60 / lb of r-12 adds up quick What do they take? 3- 4 lbs? he wasn't sure and I don't know. Any other problems and the price goes up from there.
Sounds like Vintage will be getting an inquiry from me.

[68 Suburban]

I have a 30 lbs container of R-12 that is un-officially for sale

[jeepbut]

Dave, I added a can of Freeze12 to the orange and white ford one year and 20,000 miles ago with no trouble yet. In answer to your why they charge so much question: just because they can. I worked for two large new car dealers in the Houston area and between 1995 and 1998 there profit on A/C work went up 71 and 66%.That is how much PROFIT went up, not total dollers. The epa gave A/C repair poeple a gold mine with the freon scare and almost all of them have done a good job of cashing in on it at the consumers expence. If your system is just low, I would try the Freeze 12 and see what happens. Thousands of farmers have dumped it in on top of r12 with no problems. If it does not work, then spend the big bucks. Thanks, Lyman.

[lofly'a]

oldyeller'

i have'nt gained that much a/c info in one place in a long time. thanks alot, that post is the main reason i come to this board and read i everyday. i was once an ASE certified mechanic and the book smarts and theory is great, but raw, tried and true experience is what makes a gearhead worth his weight in gold.

thanks

[oldyeller]

lofly'a

no problem, ya got any questions just yell!

[wbmoore]

let me get this straight......it's going to cost me 6 or 8 hundred dollars to get my stock A/C up and running??!! Or is that to install a new stock system. Or to reuild the whole thing ?

[mtdave2]

nope, thats to replace a compressor on a system that is already there. but, there is lots of stuff that goes along with that iguess,.
souds like bs to me

[ebfabman]

Air conditioning is really not a DIY type of job. Thats not to say that many people have gotten their A/C's to blow cold but thats only part of the story. Do they really know what they did? Do they have an understanding of chemistry and the chemical properties that take place to make air conditioning work? Do they really need to?
This is not to say that a person can not educate him/her self to get an understanding of refrigeration and aquire the tools and equipment to do it themselves.

Does the average shade tree mechanic ever wonder about;

What is freon? Whats its chemical make up? If freon is mixed with anything else, could it be harmful? Why is it against federal law to vent freon?

Freon (R-12) is Dichlorodifluromethane CF2CL2. Each molecule of freon is made up of 1 carbon atom, 2 fluorine atoms, and 2 chlorine atoms. Chlorine and fluorine are unstable elements and will break bond with carbon fairly easily.

This is why it is very,very important to properly evacuate an A/C system. Let me explain. One of the many things in the air we breath is water H2O, thats 2 atoms of hydrogen, and 1 atom of oxygen, very abundant in the atmosphere. When any amount of water comes in contact with freon, an unstable chlorine atom grabs a hydrogen atom and makes a molecule of HCL. Recognize this? Its hydrochloric acid, very corrosive. It eats things like rubber hoses, aluminum tubes, and etches away at things like metal components inside a compressor.
Also, about venting. When freon is vented into the atmosphere, those unstable chorine atoms attack the ozone layer protecting the earth from harmful ultraviolet rays. Ozone is O3, unlike O2, which is one of the components that make up the air we breath, Ozone(O3) is a molecule made up of three atoms of oxygen that are single bonded to each other. This triangular shaped molecule is not very stable, the single bonds are somewhat weak and strained to start with, unlike O2 which is two atoms of oxygen bonded together with a double bond, a much stronger and more stable molecule configuration. When elements like chlorine are allowed to contact the ozone layer, a chemical reaction takes place that depletes the protective ozone layer, by breaking that weak O3 molecule and making a different substance that does not have the earth protecting quailities of ozone.

What would happen if we were exposed to harmful UV rays, well thats a whole 'nother thread.

Why does it cost so much to have A/C work done? Several reasons. One of which is proper training to do the work right. Also the tools and equipment are not cheap.

Do people get luckey and get their A/C's to blow cold by doing the work themselves? You bet they do.

Is there still corrosive HCL in their systems even though the A/C is blowing cold? Certainly, yes! If there was ever any atmospphereic H2O introduced into the system by the system being opened up or the system being charged without purging the equipment before use, you can be sure the system has been contaminated and the corrosion has started its nasty work.

I guess one suggestion would be to let a properly trained person, not just someone who does A/C jobs, perform the A/C maintenance and repairs. Ask to see their credentails, a properly trained tech will be proud to show you. There is a lot to know about A/C's, (more than that they should blow cold)

As to why the parts cost so much, I don't have a good answer for that one, however if you choose to do the work yourself, please educate yourself on how to handle refrigerants and how to use the equipment safetly.

Good luck.......eb