What to do?? LS2 or Big Block for my project

[TXRookie]

Well I finally yanked the stock motor and trans out of my 68 C10 a month or so ago. And I'm trying to come up with a plan for the motor and trans. Let me take a second to give you a feel for the overall plan. This truck wont be a daily driver but I would like to drive to work sometimes. I want it to be traffic friendly and be able to drive it from Austin to Houston or were ever I feel necessary. It will be driven on the highway allot, rapped on from stoplight to stop light, and maybe be taken to the track every once and awhile. I'm going to have the truck riding on shockwaves or some type of air ride suspension. I want to be able to lower the truck for a great low stance, but he able to adjust it to make it over the speed bumps at the local Home Depot. The truck will ride on 18's in the front and 19's in the rear. Pretty sure I want to keep and automatic trans in the truck. I think a 4l80E would be cool, because of overdrive. So my problem is the motor. I'm thinking a LS2 would be awesome. I had a LS1 in my 02 Camaro SS and loved it. I'd like to have around 500hp or so. So with a LS2, a few mods like heads and cam, maybe some tuning. I should get that. Or I could just go with a GM Crate Big Block. Since I want the truck to handle great(as good as a 68 can) I figured the lighter weight block would help. Any of you guys have any input on what I should do. I don’t have bottomless pockets but I'm not afraid to spend some cash were it counts. Also, later on down the road I would like to add a supercharger. Just for the pure fun factor, and the fact that I love the smell of burning rubber. Any input would be great. I'm not buying the motor anytime soon, but I'm just not sure which way to go. Then I need to address my stock rear end. This is my first big project and I apologize in advanced for all the newbie questions. By the way, this forum is great. I have learned allot by searching and reading others post. The quality of talent on this forum is incredible.

[TonyJohnson]

That's a pretty fun question. I think I'd go LS2/4l60 (I'd personally go 6 spd...) These can be had with computer, harness and all accessories including a/c. So right off the bat, you save a ton on serpentine setup, etc. The other main reason to go LSx is tuning. Invest in HP Tuners software and you'll have complete control of the engine and upgradability when you go to the blower... This engine/tranny combo is quite a bit lighter than the big block/4l80 combo, so you'll get a benefit in mileage and handling. It's also a pretty compact package that will be easy to fit and give you a ton of room in the engine bay. Before I put it in, I'd put in some forged pistons and a good cam. The heads are pretty easy to port if you want to try or you can find a great set for 1400 or so. Be sure to upgrade springs to doubles. These engines are notorious for breaking valve springs... The 4l60 can be beefed up to take 500hp. When you go to a blower later, you might want to upgrade to the 4l80, but it's heavy.

All the same stuff can be done to the big block, but you'll spend more time and money piecing it together and you won't have the benefit of all the support the LSx is getting. There are some great boards and a lot of cool developement groups working on stuff for it.

Sounds like a fun project whichever way you go.

[ChevLoRay]

Go with the big block.....396, 402,427, 454.....and the 700R4. No electronics to deal with; stoplight grand prix will be fun; with the overdrive the trip from Austin to Houston on 290 will be "fun", and (as always) there's no substitute for cubic inches.

[TonyJohnson]

Forgot... Even with 3.73 rear you should get better than 20 mpg on the highway if you can keep your total weight under 3600 or so. The engine also runs really clean also, so it's fairly easy to keep it within emissions (might or might not be a factor, but one to think about...) Don't forget a great torque convertor. A yank ss stalling around 3500 would be fun... 8^>

[mnunn454]

There will be some "challenges" with the LSx, like motor mounts, exhaust, fuel pump in the custom tank, etc, but nothing that can't be overcome. If you're into "tech" stuff, then the LSx has a great potential (your 500+ HP goal would be relatively easy) and the 4L60e or 80e would be a boltup and work well in front of the 3.73 gears.

However I shy away from the tech stuff (refusal to grow up, I guess. I get the grandkids to program my remote too) so my choice is for simple, raw, BBC power. Yes it'll be a little heavier, but there's just no beating that low end grunt-torque a BBC delivers. An LSx will have to be wound up a little extra to match the torque of a BBC.

The LSx will definitely yield better highway MPG than a BBC. But I think the BBC has better underhood eye appeal at cruises and car shows and sounds meaner at traffic lights.

If you do want BBC and 4L80e, don't forget the $500+ A/T controller. If you go BBC/TH700 put some extra money into beefy internal tranny parts.

Regarding supercharging, I think the LSx lends itself to fine tuning a little easier than a carbureted BBC. But personally I like the looks of the 6 or 871's sitting atop the block like a silver crown.

In the end, I think if you're willing to go the techie tuner route, the LS2 would be the better choice, but it's a close call (IMO) for sure. I think both paths will end up costing you about the same, but initially you'll spend more time under the hood with the LSx than a crate BBC.

Best wishes. Either way it'll be a winner.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by mnunn454

There will be some "challenges" with the LSx, like motor mounts, exhaust, fuel pump in the custom tank, etc, but nothing that can't be overcome. If you're into "tech" stuff, then the LSx has a great potential (your 500+ HP goal would be relatively easy) and the 4L60e or 80e would be a boltup and work well in front of the 3.73 gears.

However I shy away from the tech stuff (refusal to grow up, I guessBest

Your loss....putting an a GenIII (LQ9, LM7, LS1, etc.) or a GenIV (LS2, LS7, etc) into our trucks is literally a bolt-in affair if you got the cash. it's just as easy to put one of the new fuel injected engines into our truck as it is to put an outdated 1st gen 350 crate motor with a Gear Vendors Overdrive into our trucks...

Basically, the rule is simple: the more money you have to spend, the more bolt-in it gets. If you don't have money to spend, you better be good at fabricating stuff.

Take it from a guy who has done the swap. If you go automatic, all you need to be able to do is pay someone for the harness and computer reprogramming, spend $250 on ECE motor mounts, read some of the swap threads me and the other guys who've done the swap have made, keep it an automatic tranny, make some fuel and tranny cooler lines, and the only fab work involved is mounting a Lokar electronic pedal to the floor, dealing with the tranny linkage (easy fix if you just move to a floor shifter) and that's pretty much all there is to it. it's seriously a no-brainer.

you can do all of this for under $3500 total if you get a good deal on the engine+tranny combo (get a low mileage 5.3L or 6.0L + 4l80e combo out of a 2002+ Tahoe for $1500-1750 and you're in like flint)

just my 2¢ from a guy who's been there and done that. 22mpg-26mpg highway mileage awaits you, and for about the same $$$ you'd spend on a new crate motor swap, or for a total bolt-in setup, you'll be paying as much as you would for a nice ZZ4 crate motor, and with the same HP/TQ out of the box (300HP/300TQ or more)

i am AMAZED that more people haven't done/aren't doing this swap. it's night and day difference to make a superb daily driver/loud ass cruiser (if you run no-Cat/cut-out exhaust) cheap as a crate motor would

[streetstar]

I look at the truck as a total package -- and are you an "old school" guy, or new school guy?

I think the big block would be more fun and be less expensive than a supercharged LS-2. Yes it will eat more gas , but the fun factor is worth it. Aluminum heads would help minimize the weight difference.

But then again ............. i had a ZO-6 from '03 - '05. As much power as that thing had, i would not hesitate to use it in a truck -- 1st gear was not even usable in that car

Old school or new school -- thats a difficult question. I am curious what the weight of an LS2 is with a centrifugal supercharger setup vs a big block with aluminum heads and a single carb

[57sailplane]

to me its a question of hp. if you are looking at 700 or so hp then go with the ls motor it will be way better in drive ability and there is a weight savings also. if you are looking to go much higher in hp then you will have to probably buy aftermarket parts. not sure about the ls motors but the 1st gen small blocks require a crank with the bb snout to handle such a big super charger. what i am getting at is if you are building somthing 700 hp or less go with the lsx its probably the all around wiser choice. but if you are looking for more go with the big block it will be cheaper in the long run when looking for higher hp figures.

[TXRookie]

I'm more of a new school guy I guess. I want the truck to have a low stance(kinda a Pro Touring look, over used term), larger wheels, big brakes, and stupid horsepower. I understand this is a 68 C10 and it will never handle like a new Vette. But I want it to be fast, nimble, and simply a blast to drive. So I do love the rumble of a big block. But I'm very drawn to the LS-2. I'm thinking of buying a new LS-2 crate motor and a 4L80E trans. Also, not sure if I should go EFI or carb. Carb is cool for the simplicity factor, but EFI is awesome for its tunablity and reliablity. Either would be nice. But I'm pretty sure the LS-2 is the way I will go. I'm just trying to put togeather a parts list I might need. I need to get a list together for motor, trans, computer, harness, etc. Thanks everyone for your input. It is appreciated!

[jkade]

Big Blocks are a thing of the past in my book.

[streetstar]

Originally Posted by jkade

Big Blocks are a thing of the past in my book.

unless you want to go fast

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by jkade

Big Blocks are a thing of the past in my book.

Quoted for truth.

Trust me, after having both, you'll be MUCH happier with LSx power.

500 hp with an LS engine is child's play.

Originally Posted by streetstar

unless you want to go fast

Funny you should say that. I wonder how an LS1 Camaro won the Pump Gas Drags this year??

http://www.compcams.com/pumpgasdrags/

And everybody knows you certainly can't make over 2000 hp with an LSX that is still streetable...


How can you disagree with an $1800 block that can be built to 500+ cubes and will withstand 2500 hp???
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/En...6454&engCat=ls

[streetstar]

Ebony and Ivory can live together in perfect harmony

500 hp is also child's play with a 454 , its even possible with 781 heads on a 454.

I dont pay any attention to pump gas drags, it doesnt apply to my life or the class i choose to race in. (IHRA pro/mod is still dominated by blown big blocks).

I'm more interested in the price tag for that complete engine if its making 2000 hp. If you have 25 - 30k, you can build something pretty stout using most engine platforms, and at that power level, they all cost about the same.

[jkade]

Originally Posted by streetstar

unless you want to go fast

Maybe you need to see some built LS based motors. I know of plenty going fast

[bowtieboy93]

i think BB all the way. crate done with over 500 hp bolt it in. while if you go with lsx, your gonna be over that, stock with all of your computer and wiring. also while fuel injection is better, carburetors are much easier. as well as if that bb breaks down, its ALOT cheaper to fix

[russellmarling]

Well, here is my perspective, coming from someone who owns one of each. I have an LS1 Camaro and a big block powered GMC. The Camaro is daily driven, it is fast, quiet (compared to the big block), and smooth- but it has no character. The truck gets cruised every now and then, cold starts are tough because the Mighty Demon doesn't have a choke, and the gas mileage is ridiculous, but when I open the hood I see hot rod mecca. When I look under the hood of the Camaro I see miles of wiring and black plastic. The sound of the big block at idle is unbelieveable. But the LS1 idles smoothly so I don't spill my coffee. I can play with the timing and carb in the truck and "tinker" with it when I'm bored. I can't "play" with the Camaro, but its precisely tuned by the computer anyway. Maybe big blocks are a thing of the past. Who cares? My truck is a thing of the past- that is why I like it. These two are apples and oranges. Do you want a vintage hot rod with character, simplicity, and chrome, or something high-tech that starts on the first turn of the key every morning? Either way it should be awesome.

[jkade]

Originally Posted by russellmarling

The Camaro is daily driven, it is fast, quiet (compared to the big block), and smooth- but it has no character

Maybe you need to hear some ls motors with cams.
http://ls1sounds.com/camshafts.htm

"When I look under the hood of the Camaro I see miles of wiring and black plastic"

Not that many with a stand alone harness and they can be hidden like the old man did below.



This is a debate that has many opinions and if I was not going to drive one on 100 + mile trips a big block would be fine. But guys, you don't have to spend $6000 to have a ls motor in your ride. I have about $3000 in my motor, trans, wiring, fuel, guages, etc that is put in and running. I say it makes somewhere around 400 to 430hp. How much will it cost to build a bbc that will make that kind of power? LS motors don't wear and tear as bad as old style engines either and chances are if it is done right you won't need to be working on it just enjoying it. JM2C

[usernamessuck]

Go with the LS or get really out of hand and go with a 572 crate!

[shifty]

Originally Posted by usernamessuck

Go with the LS or get really out of hand and go with a 572 crate!

LSx = 20mpg+ and it's fuel injected
572 = 7-8mpg+ and it's carbured

LS7 will produce the same kind of power that a 572 will...with both you're spending a stupid amount of money for a car that will kill you. Lxx engine from a modern truck will get good gas milage and stupid good power with a couple of simple performance mods (we're talking 425HP out of an LQ9 just from a new cam, springs, intake and good exhaust setup with tuning from someone who knows what they're doing)

huge difference there.

[bowtieboy93]

also think for ignition tho
BB - MSD Billet distributor $300.00
LS - MSD Spark Pack - $90.00 each $720.00 total
so to get more out of an ls it costs some cash

[N2TRUX]

6.0 block+heads+cam= 500+ HP that runs on pump gas all day long. Seems like a no brainer to me.

[Ozona]

This is a discussion between looks and dollars basically.

The LS motors basically all look the same. Pop your hood around any "hot rods" or late model guys - everyone has the same thing.

Pop your hood with a BBC in it, and you'll be one of a few...at most.

BBC + Carb = Fewer parts, simple operation, easy to tune (period), and parts are easy to find used/aftermarket/etc.

The EFI project is going to be dramatically more complicated. Computer, Wiring harness, Engine controls, EFI fuel system, serpentine belts...Plain and simple...It's more parts. More parts = more money.

If you want big power and anvil simplicity - go with the BBC.

If you don't care about keeping it simple and the potentially much larger build expense/complication - the LS motors are neat.

And the comment above about "Big Blocks are a thing of the past in my book." that's silly. End of story.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by Ozona

This is a discussion between looks and dollars basically.

I respectfully disagree. This is a discussion between old/outdated/inefficient/technologically inadvanced power with a decent assortment of aftermarket parts and support that've been around forever versus new/innovative/efficient/technologically advanced power with a ton of aftermarket parts and support that have great cost-to-power ratio.

Originally Posted by Ozona

The LS motors basically all look the same. Pop your hood around any "hot rods" or late model guys - everyone has the same thing. Pop your hood with a BBC in it, and you'll be one of a few...at most.

You know what this tells me? It tells me that the few BBCs you'll find belong to people who are too stubborn to accept newer, better technology, or they want something period-correct in their vehicle.

I speculate that there are really only a few die-hard fans of the BBC left out there (when you consider the number of GenII, III And IV platform fans) and the rest of the people out there are openminded enough to recognize the benefits that the newer engine platforms have to offer. The benefits are simple: Less work and money to obtain an engine that is just as powerful, but 2-3x more efficient with gas mileage and engine life expectancy, which is hugely important these days.

Again - as someone mentioned earlier - GenIII offers you 400-500HP with easy low-buck bolt-ons and you can run that on pump gas, and not sink a fortune into it.

Originally Posted by Ozona

BBC + Carb = Fewer parts, simple operation, easy to tune (period), and parts are easy to find used/aftermarket/etc.

You can get more bang-for-your-buck parts much easier (and cheaper) for the GenIII engines, used or new. Period. Likewise, it would take me a weekend to properly tune a carb on a non-EFI engine...give me a GenIII and 2-3 hours with a laptop running LS1edit, and I believe I could figure out how to tune a GenIII engine without screwing around with set screws, timing lights and other archaic old tools.

Originally Posted by Ozona

The EFI project is going to be dramatically more complicated. Computer, Wiring harness, Engine controls, EFI fuel system, serpentine belts...Plain and simple...It's more parts. More parts = more money.

Most of the parts come with the engine if you buy it at any of the places mentioned in this thread, so there is no add'l cost involved. Tuning can either be done by you, or you can pay some places a one-time fee and they'll tune you up forever. But, unlike your carb'd BBC, constant tweaking and tuning isn't required. Unlike your BBC, the GenIII platform will automatically adjust within a range, something your BBC is not capable of. As any number of the swaps others have done (posts are linked in this thread) will show, you can make nearly everything you need to do the swap, too. Just get a higher flowing fuel pump - which is something you gotta buy with a BBC anyway, and you're pretty much good to go. You technically only need the same # of wires to make a GenIII platform run as you do a BBC or any other SBC.

Originally Posted by Ozona

If you want big power and anvil simplicity - go with the BBC.

That's the thing - simpler really *isn't* better...unless you've got a two digit IQ and can't understand how to do anything other than tweak screws here and there...or you're not resourceful enough to learn about how things work.

I agree, I loved the simplicity of my inline 6. LOVED IT. So much! You had water intake, gas intake, one belt to run everything, add spark and provide exhaust and you've got a running engine that would pull like a mule all day long. Hell, they're used as much as the BBC in modern racing, and there is a huge market for EFI products for the inline 6. But for me, running @ 6mpg and being fully wound at 4k RPM on the interstate with my little 3spd Muncie at 65mph...it sucked my ass! The swap to GenIII was a no-brainer. 4x the gas mileage, 10x the fun, parts cost 1/10th of the inline parts...

Originally Posted by Ozona

If you don't care about keeping it simple and the potentially much larger build expense/complication - the LS motors are neat.

The first part of that sentence is a HUGE misconception, and this gross exaggeration of complication is what kept guys like me away from these swaps for far too long.

GenIII and later swaps CAN easily be simple.
GenIII and later swaps CAN easily be cheaper.
There is a wealth of knowledge on the internet (right here at this forum, as a matter of fact" to learn and figure it out.

We all hafta learn something new, otherwise we become dinosaurs...just like the BBC. You can hold on tight to dinosaur technology, but with time that just makes you ... a dinosaur - EXTINCT.

Originally Posted by Ozona

And the comment above about "Big Blocks are a thing of the past in my book." that's silly. End of story.

Silly...seriously, I think you'll see the BBC take the same position as the inline 6 has in the next decade.

With the advent of newer 6.2L - 7.0L engines that are coming out from GM this year (like the LS9) that are producing 500HP+ (completely stock), it's making your BBC look like a a novelty more than a practical powerhouse.

[SCOTI]

So swapping to newer technology equals getting better than 20mpg's w/a factory-stock 300hp/346ci ls1/auto in a 67~72 truck? Just like that??

[shifty]

With stock 3.73's on a half-ton truck, I have never heard anyone claiming that they get less than 20mpg with a stock GenIII engine. Even if it was only 15mpg, that would still be 2.5x more efficient than my inline, which means spending $30 at the gas station instead of $80.