Am I looking at a frame off restoration?

[Uwe Blab]

I was hoping to avoid a frame off restoration, but it seems like with the list of things I need/like to do with the truck it will put me in frame off territory.

I have replacement gaskets for the leaking oil pan and rear main seal (I assume I'll have to move the engine to access both of these?).

The cab mounts need replacing, as well as the rockers.

The front core support is rusted out where the inner fender connects and needs fixing (along with the inner fenders).

I have a new o/d transmission to install (once I rebuild it).

Would like to move the gas tank out of the cab (although not sure where I can put it - want to keep my trapeze spare tire holder, and don't want saddle bags).

Fix bondo/body work and full repaint (silver with a white cab top).

Overall rust to removal (anybody had good luck with the soda blasting technique?).

I'm not looking for a show truck. Just a nice daily driver. So am I looking at a full frame-off?

My budget only allows me to do little bits at a time, but it seems like with many of the things I'd like to do, I should do them all at once. Unfortunately I don't have a place where I can dismantle the truck and work on it when the time and funds present themselves.

Just looking for a sounding board...and I know this place offers some of the best reverberation.

[big mike71]

If you are doing all that it seems like you would want the frame to look good too.

[ll____b0t____ll]

Man if you have the Time,Place and patiance to do all the things you want to do Ide say go frame off.

It sure would be nice to have the space to work on everything and make you less rushed so you can get everything as good as you want it.
Plus with these trucks its not always what you can see that needs work, lot of times its those places only a frame off lends you to.

[pmpski_1]

Why do you think these problems == frame off restoration?

[Uwe Blab]

Originally Posted by pmpski_1

Why do you think these problems == frame off restoration?

Just seems like by the time I take off the front core support to repair it, remove the cab to replace the mounts, move the engine to replace gaskets and take the bed off to install a new gas tank, I'd be just as well off to make it a full frame off restoration. It would provide better access to the frame for rust removal, and I'd like to ensure all the pieces and parts and connections are in good working order.

I tend to think the same way about home restoration as well. Sometimes being an architect can be a disservice. My list of ideas far exceed my time and money.

[big mike71]

If you do it pm me I would like come give you hand and checkout all that is involved.

[Uwe Blab]

Originally Posted by big mike71

If you do it pm me I would like come give you hand and checkout all that is involved.

Mike, very much obliged for the offer. I'll be sure to let you know if I ever muster up the courage to 'pull that trigger'. I'd like to make it out to one of those cruises in Independence (first Saturday of the month, yes?). I could show you what I'm running with.

Slosteve, the pics of the truck are a few years old and taken right after I bought it. My dad was kind enough to haul down to his place (4 hours away) and do a once over with a good friend of his who's helped him with his own frame offs of mid-50s Oldsmobiles. So far some small improvements (new radiator, exhaust, cab supports, door seals) have been made and I do drive it on occasion. The biggest priority for me right now is the oil leak. It's not bad, but I'd rather not have the truck 'mark it's territory' everywhere we go.

You mentioned 'snowballs'. I generally use the phrase 'pull a thread on a sweater'. You're probably dead on with your estimate of taking up 3 times the space dismantled. Realistically I'm a ways off before being able to do a full frame off...maybe I should start playing the lottery again?

[slosteve]

[QUOTE=Uwe Blab;3358463] Unfortunately I don't have a place where I can dismantle the truck and work on it when the time and funds present themselves.
QUOTE]
Being that the truck is on a trailer in the photos, I was wondering if you've ever driven it.
I believe that I'm afflicted with a similar mindset as to what you describe; all or nothing kinda thinking. Or maybe perfectionism. Whatever you wanna call it, it usually leads me down paths that I call snowballs.
Anyway, my suggestion would be to get it running/driving and do some things that you think have to be done. Then drive it for awhile and do something else.
I would advise that a frame off is a bold step if you have no room or $. When you dismantle a vehicle, it takes up at least 3 times as much space as it does in one piece.

[vectorit]

Coming from a guy that has done a body off the frame restoration...

From what I have read so far in what you have posted, it doesn't sound like you have the resources to do it. So with that I would just clean up what you have in the best way you can, since doing a body off resto takes up a lot of what you stated above as limited resource.

To repeat what I tell everyone that ask's the same questions you have, when it comes to an enthusiastic aproach to fixin up their new truck.

If you don't have these three main things, then don't even attemt to go body off. Otherwise you run the risk of losing interest and money, then giving up on it which can be really heart wrenching.

1. Money
2. Time
3. Lots of storage space

Simple as that.

Even if you have talent, you need time and money.
If you have the money you need the time and space.
If you have no talent, then you will need tons of all three of above.

Above does not even take into account if you got a girl friend or a wife, because they will bug the crap out of you for all of your investments of time, space, and money.

Just my experienced .02 on this...

[Uwe Blab]

vectorit,

Thanks for putting it in clear, concise perspective. Some of the factors contributing to my limited time, money and space are the wife and three kids. Wouldn't trade them for the world mind you, but factors nonetheless.

I knew this was a good place to learn from others' experiences.

[71 super]

Is the truck drivable now? If it is fix things as you need to while still maintaining drivability. If you pull it a part without resources and a overall plan you will end up with a sitting project and no motivation to finish- i.e. in over your head. Many people have started only to lose faith hope and interest and sell off the truck for much less than it was really worth. I am in no way saying this will happen to you but with a limited budget you could be a long time without your truck and end up cutting corners etc just to finish and end up not very happy in the end. All of the things you listed are very doable as weekend projects except the paint, which means do it as time and money allows and enjoy the truck. Good luck with what your decide to do.

[Uwe Blab]

Thanks everyone for the input. I do drive it when I can and have enjoyed it tremendously.

However, one bit of trouble I've had is when the engine is still cold. It starts up just fine and goes into high idle. But it kicks down before the engine is completely warmed up and then I have issues getting going from a complete stop. I really have to feather the gas as the clutch engages or it sputters and offers to stall. Once it's warmed up it runs fine...it's just those first few minutes where I have to coax it along. Do I need to replace the spring in the exhaust manifold connected to the rod that opens/closes the butterfly valve?

Also, if I wanted to clean up the rust off the frame and under body without doing a frame off, is there a tried and true technique that anyone has had success with?

Thanks again for the words of wisdom. Adam

[Mordachai]

Originally Posted by Uwe Blab

Thanks everyone for the input. I do drive it when I can and have enjoyed it tremendously.

However, one bit of trouble I've had is when the engine is still cold. It starts up just fine and goes into high idle. But it kicks down before the engine is completely warmed up and then I have issues getting going from a complete stop. I really have to feather the gas as the clutch engages or it sputters and offers to stall. Once it's warmed up it runs fine...it's just those first few minutes where I have to coax it along. Do I need to replace the spring in the exhaust manifold connected to the rod that opens/closes the butterfly valve?

Also, if I wanted to clean up the rust off the frame and under body without doing a frame off, is there a tried and true technique that anyone has had success with?

Thanks again for the words of wisdom. Adam

have you tried a seafoam treatment? might work wonders.
also might want to try putting a new choke assembly(vacuum dealy) on, they are cheap and can help fix up the cold start issue.

I'd say to go with the other guys- drive it and do a little at a time. real frame off will cost more money than you can think of before you get started. once you pull everything down to the frame, chances are you'll find more needs replacing than you thought. and if you look for something to repair, you'll def find it.

[Uwe Blab]

Originally Posted by Mordachai

have you tried a seafoam treatment? might work wonders.

also might want to try putting a new choke assembly(vacuum dealy) on, they are cheap and can help fix up the cold start issue.

I'd say to go with the other guys- drive it and do a little at a time. real frame off will cost more money than you can think of before you get started. once you pull everything down to the frame, chances are you'll find more needs replacing than you thought. and if you look for something to repair, you'll def find it.

I'll have to investigate the seafoam treatment...hadn't heard of that.

Yeah I've thought about the choke option. I'll keep that in mind if I can't fix the idle issue.

I'm sure you're right that I shouldn't go looking for things to repair...I'm just asking for more trouble than I already have.

[ChevLoRay]

Time, talent, space....or money....couldn't have been better stated.

Time and money requirements will grow exponentially. Space needs will, too.

I didn't have the time, or the space or the talent. I had the money that a guy said it would take. He has the talent. He also has some of my money and some of my truck. The rest of my truck (chassis/cab/drivetrain) sits in my driveway awaiting additional surgery. The talent had a round of Lymphoma. My time is growing shorter. My talent is not bodywork. My space has been inundated by the arrival of one of my children moving in with spouse and 3 offspring and what didn't go into storage.

See where this is going?

Next step is "loss of interest", followed by wholesale selling off of parts and pieces.

I didn't set out to have that happen.

Stories you read of project vehicles that took "years" to accomplish? I'm working on another in a long list of those stories.

[72BlckButy]

Adam one thing you also have to consider is that a frame off build does take a lot of time and money as mentioned by vectorit; and some people lose interest in the build in the end. We would hate to see that happen, so I would take a section at a time fix to where it's still driveable and then move onto the next section.

Just my $.02.... but good luck with the project!

BTW, try to make it to the Midwest All Truck Nat's in Riverside, MO. I know several of the board members would love to see your truck up close. Check out the Missouri/Midwest sections of the board.

[PanelDeland]

[I] agree with what's been said.You can get creative though.When it comes time for bodywork just pull the bed and work on it.While that's off clean and paint the rear frame.The same works for other parts.It wont be a frame off but it will be fairly close and adress the issues.I've done quite a bit to mine staring with fuel system,clutch,windshield,new window regulators,paint interior,and rebuilt drum brakes.I did all of this work a little at a time while living in apartment complexes so it can be done.Just plan carefully.

[tim21391]

you dont need to take cab off to put all new cab mounts in.. i did it with my cab on the frame.. just be prepared to be in tight spaces.. i had to get under truck and put both knees on the floor and both hands on floor and i pressed it up.. slid the spacers and grommets in with no problems.. i am doing what your doing.. redoing the body.. step at a time.. heck im 18 im not made of money so all i did was spend a 100 here 100 there.. and its finally almost done... i started in november last year.. so its going to take time.. my truck needed partial floor pan. outer floor extension. front and rear pillars. kick panel. outer rockers. cab corners. floor supports. radiator support. inner fenders.. check out my build thread if u want its in my signature