she won't turn over....

[wahlie]

Gents,
Recently replaced the alternator, plugs, wires, distributor cap, coil on my 67.... went to go crank her up. she cranks but won't turn over. the one time she did turn over she was shaking side to side real bad... Now, I made sure that I labeled the wires properly before putting new ones on.... I also know that there are a lot of variables but wasn't sure if someone could pinpoint what it was. I'm using platinum plugs where as before they were stock. a new msd coil and new distributor cap as well. the alternator, cranks when I turn the key but i'm assuming it's not starting because of lack of spark.

Thanks,
Chris

[special-K]

Let me get you straight,for starters.Turn over and crank are the same thing.I think you mean it won`t fire.The starter,alternater,and battery are suspect when won`t crank and won`t fire is either fuel or ignition.
You need to check fuel delivery and spark/timing.See if fuel is gusg=hing from the fuel pump.Is it a Q-jet carb?Remove the line at the carb and check the filter.Work the throttle and see if it`s squirting.You can hear and see it looking into the carb.If no squirt the accelerator pump in the carb is week.How old is the fuel?See if it will run with a little gas poured in the carb to eliminate the fuel problem.
Check spark by seeing what color it is holding a plug wire close to the motor to cause an arc.Check the coil wire the same.Is it HEI or points?You didn`t mention points.
The only other thing would be timing.Is the distributor real tight?

[wahlie]

Yup, she won't fire.... she cranks, the alternator/belt move. The carb is a new edelbrock 1406. She worked before putting on all the new stuff. I can smell fuel after cranking for a bait coming from the carb. The filter is as new as the carb. about a month. Forgive my ignorance but i'm not sure if it's hei or points. How can I tell? The distributor is tight. I also put the new msd coil on.

[westofb]

Originally Posted by wahlie

Yup, she won't fire.... she cranks, the alternator/belt move. The carb is a new edelbrock 1406. She worked before putting on all the new stuff. I can smell fuel after cranking for a bait coming from the carb. The filter is as new as the carb. about a month. Forgive my ignorance but i'm not sure if it's hei or points. How can I tell? The distributor is tight. I also put the new msd coil on.

HEI, usually has larger cap with cap mounted coil (some aftermarket have external coils), the plug wire terminals on the cap will look like spark plugs, same type of connector, male connectors. If points style distirbutor cap will be smaller and plug wire terminals should be female connector. You stated that it once tried to fire and shook bad, has it ever tried to back fire when cranking it? Since you said it ran before the upgrades, I would guess you either have crossed your plug wires firing order on chevy v 8 is 18436572 and looking at the top of the cap they are in clock wise arrangement, your plugs are improperly gapped (hei should be 60/1000 and points style 35/1000, I think that correct), or if it is hei, you may have incorrectly installed the pickup for the coil inside the cap under the coil (maybe even left it out...lol). If it is a point style dist, and was running before, probably not the point are bad or improperly set unless you jacked with them. Hope this helps you out some.

[westofb]

Originally Posted by wahlie

I also put the new msd coil on.

Also thought I might mention....just because a part is new, does not mean that it can't be defective.

[72armyswbtruck]

When you removed the cap, did you mark on the firewall which way the rotor was facing?
Did you remove the distributor at all?
If your getting fuel, then check spark.
Good Luck and you will get thru it.

[wahlie]

gotcha... here is what she looked like before. I'm fairly certain, by your descriptions that i'm running points. Going to start with wires/plugs and go from there. thanks guys

[68gmsee]

This is when an extra set of hands come in handy... I usually have someone crank the engine while I remove a sparkplug wire and check to see if there's a spark to the plug.

If there's not, I remove the coil wire from the distributor and again have someone crank the engine while I place the wire close to the center post to see if I get spark.

If there's spark there, then I know it something inside the distributor like point gap, condener, short or loose wire in the points. That is, if the timing has not been changed.

In my case (68 GMC) I had the wire come off the points... I don't like those cheap press on, friction contact types. If you have that kind check with NAPA.

[PanelDeland]

You probably need new points to really tune it up.Maybe you cqan get someone more familiar with them to show you how to do it.It's not really a hard procedure but it requires some care(you don't want to drop any little screws).Some special tools are handy also.

[wahlie]

one other thing, I didn't change the rotor... only the distributor cap..

[westofb]

Originally Posted by wahlie

one other thing, I didn't change the rotor... only the distributor cap..

Could be that the new cap and old rotor are not compatible, most are changed as sets, although I know they do sell them seperately. I think I would change the rotor too while you are at it. I have not messed with points type for a very long time, I know you can set them with a feeler gauge (I don't know what they gap at, your friendly parts counter guy should be able to provide this info to you), and I was thinking there is a tool called a dwell meter to fine tune them....I would have tossed the whole works and replaced with hei distributor....you would not believe how much better it will run.

[mclairmo]

You likely hooked up the coil wires wrong or plug wires are wrong. Start with the simplest stuff first. No offense, but something you did is likely not correct. Happens to all of us. Go back and re-check everything you did and make sure all is 100% correct. Plug wires, coil wires, etc. Also make sure the wires going to coil are not broken. They look pretty bad and may have broken during removal/installation. Find the firing order and make sure each plug wire is correct. Make sure they are on the cap correctly. Don't move on to anything else until you recheck all you did and confirm it is correct. Good luck.

[wahlie]

Cool. I'll go over it again. No offense taken. It's likely that I messed up the order... I hope it's that simple anyway

[cleszkie]

I'm not seeing a ballast resistor in the picture (white porcelain block with two terminals on it). Did you remove it when you did the other work, or is it just out of frame? Its been a while since I've run points, but I do know that you must have a ballast resistor in line before the coil for the system to operate properly.

Also make sure you got a coil that was made for points ignition and not an electronic ignition.

Craig

[john]

Do you have an after pic showing where the wires to the + and - sides of the coil go? Something doesn't look right. 12V should go to pos. neg. side to distributor.

[special-K]

Aside from everything,you should replace the rotor and points.You`re smelling fuel because you`re getting the gas and it`s not being burnt.Definately ignition.Give a "now" picture like John suggested.We may see a problem.

[mr48chev]

I agree with Special-K in that you should replace the rotor and probably the points and condenser.

But first you need to figure out what you did that is causing it to not start.

One= The alternator has no bearing on if the truck starts or runs as long as it has kept the battery charged. That is all it is there for, to charge the battery and provide electrical current to the truck. If you have a fully charged battery you don't need the alternator operating or even on the engine for the engine to start.

I am like several others in that you have probably crossed two or more wires. If the wires aren't crossed you may have started with number one wire in the wrong hole and are one plug off with each wire. From looking at the wires on your old cap #1 was at the position just clockwise from but next to the window tha use to adjust the points. With #1 wire there you wire the plugs *clockwise* 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2. 1-3-5-7 being on the driver's side of the engine (US drivers side) and 2-4-6-8 being on the passenger side numbered front to back.

I've seen Ford guys try to use a Ford firing order and have seen (myself included) Oldsmobile guys wire the engine for an Olds V8. I woke up in the middle of the night after figuring that one out after fighting with the 283 in my T bucket for two days in 1973.

If the wires are in the correct places and order check the rotor to make sure you didn't break it when you had the cap off or get the cap off center and have the rotor hit the inside of the cap when you first tried to crank it.

[hilandr452]

When I changed my points distributor to hei, I had the right firing order, but installed them counter clockwise instead of clockwise. It fired really rough and wouldn't stay running like you described when you did get it to fire. Drove me nuts trying to figure that one out.

Once I had a problem starting a points ignition engine and it turned out to be a hairline crack on the rotor that the spark would trace directly to ground inside the distributor, bypassing the nodes in the cap. Replaced the rotor and she fired right up. It'll do the same thing if you have moisture inside the cap.

Some caps have a spring loaded carbon node at the center point of the distributor cap where the coil wire hooks up that will fall out and provide no spark for the rotor.

That's all I got!



Dan

[wahlie]

Fixed her lastnight after work. It was the order of the wires..... got them crossed up. phew!!!! thanks for the tips guys. much appreciated.

-Chris

[C20-67_N_MO]

COOL!

We like to hear about happy endings.