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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 189
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6.0 LS or build a 406?
Just thinking about the direction I want to head. I've got a 400 sitting in the barn that I had planned to build up for my truck, but I'm wondering about going with an LS motor. I'm approaching this from a practical perspective. I want to enjoy driving my truck. There isn't an unlimited bank account in my house so I have to make the most out of my $ spent.
I like the idea of the modern engine from a practical stand point. They'll make more power and burn less fuel than a traditional sbc and that means getting to enjoy driving the truck more. But LS swaps are getting dime a dozen anymore (no offence to those that have them) so the wow factor is diminishing. But I like the sbc from a traditional standpoint. It's what they came with from the factory, so at the first glance it could look kinda stock. I'm not sure how many more years the aftermarket will cater to the sbc. There not in production anymore so now might be the best opportunity to buy new high performance parts. Just wondering what others have thought about this subject.
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Stu- 1981 GMC Sierra Classic LWB 355- original 2 bolt block, 10.2:1, vortec heads, Comp XE268 cam, built by self in 1992 700R4-2000 stall with lockup, shift kit, Corvette servo 3.07 open diff- I need a 3.73 posi! 2nd owner since 1986 - 388,000 km and counting. 100k by the first owner and the rest by me. |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,684
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
go with the ls...you will NOT be disappointed.
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1986 C10 SWB 6.0/6l90e Miami...Flee it like a native |
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#3 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Providence Rhode Island
Posts: 404
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
I like the old school motors, but the LS is awesome. 6 bolt mains, runs .500 lift stock huge flow number on the heads. They make huge power with stock components designed for a hard lifetime of daily use. They are made to run todays fuels and oils. To build a comparable Gen I you would have to push the limits of the engines durability and reliability and use radical performance parts drastically reducing the engines life expectancy. The LS does this without breaking a sweat still having a 200000 mile lifetime. Carb the LS and get rid of all the wiring hassle and you get the best of both worlds plus you get better gas mileage than a Gen I. WIth the added life of the motor, you'd probably easily offset the higher initial investment. Good luck with your decision.
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#4 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 189
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Quote:
The LS motor swap would probably be cheaper to. Don't think I could do the 406 the way I want for less than $5k in parts and my insurance company has 3 2001 engines for $1800-2100. They have 105k to 174k on them, so they would need some freshening, but if I step up the something newer with drive by wire throttle body they have 6 for the same price with as little as 13k on them. I'm kinda talking myself out of the 406 aren't I?
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Stu- 1981 GMC Sierra Classic LWB 355- original 2 bolt block, 10.2:1, vortec heads, Comp XE268 cam, built by self in 1992 700R4-2000 stall with lockup, shift kit, Corvette servo 3.07 open diff- I need a 3.73 posi! 2nd owner since 1986 - 388,000 km and counting. 100k by the first owner and the rest by me. |
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#5 |
driving is in my blood
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Mesa AZ
Posts: 5,720
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Go 6.0, or even better get a LSX block and go 7.0. Ls motors are the way to go for power. Im finishing up my years in the making 388 genI and then not spending another dime on it performance wise. It will be all LS from now on.
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-78 c10 short/step: 388cid, M20, 5/5 drop, lots more. Playtoy and first vehicle. -98 c1500 x-cab: 5.7L, 17" rims, 5/6 drop, flowmaster, helper bags,NBS rear disk brakes. -02 Suburban 4x4: leveled front -CBR600F4i, CBR600RR, CBR1000RR, and standup skis DISCLAIMER: I cant spell for the life of me. Last edited by Tom; 07-12-2009 at 05:26 PM. |
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#6 |
Happy to be here
![]() Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Cypress, TX
Posts: 39,023
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
LSx by all means. Just don't carb it. You will be happy with the electronics once your set up. As money permits do a cam/head swap and crank out 500hp while get 20mpg...that ...
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Follow me on Facebook and Instagram @N2trux.com Articles- "Jake" the 84 to 74 crewcab "Elwood" the77_Remix 85 GMC Sierra "Scarlett" "Refining Sierra" |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 189
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
That brings me to the next question about doing a 6.0, the electronics. Do guys get the computer from the donor vehicle and get an aftermarket harness? What about tuning?
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Stu- 1981 GMC Sierra Classic LWB 355- original 2 bolt block, 10.2:1, vortec heads, Comp XE268 cam, built by self in 1992 700R4-2000 stall with lockup, shift kit, Corvette servo 3.07 open diff- I need a 3.73 posi! 2nd owner since 1986 - 388,000 km and counting. 100k by the first owner and the rest by me. |
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#8 |
>130dB Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,130
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
I recommend an aftermarket harness. They can be had anywhere from $600-$1200 depending on your needs.
Speartech, Current Performance, and GMPP all offer top of the line, customizeable harnesses for LS motors. Also, which flavor of LS motor you pick can make a world of difference. I found my dream motor in the new 6.2L from the GMT900 platform ('07-present trucks), but many LS1, LS2, and LS6 engines are out there for cheap. I've seen a few LS1's w/ harness sell for less than $2k. An LS2 or LS6 will cost a bit more, but offer a better top end and of course, more power. In any case, you can't lose with these motors. Find a solid 4L80 or 4L65 to put behind it and let the good times roll.
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Living Life @ 130dB LED Tail Light Conversion; How-to Friend. Father. Brother. RIP El Jay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CLICK HERE and for less than $0.07 a day, you too can help support and build a better forum. |
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#9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 2,316
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
I saw a wrecking company down in OR that had a '07 3/4 2wd truck (17k miles) that looked like it had been damaged on every body panel but the add said "lot drives".
The truck was ~$5000 complete. If I understand the ad correctly it had a 6-speed automatic with a 6.2l. I am not familiar with these newest style trucks but was it a misprint and it is a 6sp manual or are they coming with 6sp automatics now? If it is an auto, is this tranny worth considering for a hotrod application?
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2009 Honda Fit CfC (bsf 44.9 mpg) 2000 Tahoe Limited 1991 GMC CrewCab Dually 2wd, will end up swb, not dually and replace CCswb below 1991 GMC CrewCab Dually 4x4, just going to fix things up for now 1982/1989 K5/GMC Jimmy 2wd 1987 GMC 1/2 ton swb 2wd Crew (sold) |
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#10 |
I have car A.D.D.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Greeley, Northern Colorado
Posts: 4,147
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
The 6 speed automatic tranny is standard on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. The 1/2 tons can have them too behind the 5.3 or 6.2, and the Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade lines get them as well. It has seemed to be a very nice transmission for those trucks, and the driveability is great. When they back the 6.0 on a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, (even in the big truck) it is a fun combo.
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-Gerald Building vehicles in memory of the first "car guy" I ever knew, my Grandpa. Bob Dunham 1935-2009. Rest in peace. 61 GMC Suburban SOLD The 86 build thread SOLD Are you a Colorado member?Click here. Last edited by Driveway Dreams; 07-19-2009 at 03:42 PM. |
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#11 |
OutOfMyMind & I'llNeverKnowWhy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Another world, some other time
Posts: 672
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Maybe it was an Allison transmission?
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-Justin-Out of my mind and I'll never know why 1976 Chevrolet Silverado C10 350 4bbl / TH350 Big10 longbed 1986 Pontiac Firebird T-Top 5.0L TPI 700R4 WS6 1992 Pontiac Firebird T-Top 5.0L TBI 700R4 My cardomain page ![]() I don't like to save, it's more fun to spend!! |
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 970
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
There are so many options and route to go when placing a LSX motor into a square body. I would first set your budget then work back from there. Cause trust me it adds up fast. brp has good motor mounts but are more expensive than the plate type found on ebay. there are several options for headers from stock to mid length from s&p to long from brp. Like mentioned above you can get a new wire harness or have the existing one reworked. Not everywhere reworks them, so you will have to call around.
Getting a drive by wire engine and converting to DBC is simple (DBC throttle body and splice a few sensors.) Ok that being said you will love the power and reliability that the LSX allows you. On the internet the swap is pretty common, but i gaurentee that if you take it out and show people they will still be impressed.
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2014 LTZ Z71 Silverado 82 C15 LQ4/4L80E Conversion 78 Suburban build (SOLD) 83 4x4 Suburban(SOLD) 82 C15 (my first truck) |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Memphis MI
Posts: 1,851
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
6 speed auto on the latest LSX. It's slick for MPG. But as far as I have seen it's 4wd only in trucks. If you get it be sure to get all the electronics and wiring as there is very little aftermarket support for them yet.
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1987 2 ton ![]() 1982 ![]() Dad's 1981 ![]() Plus a mess o' tractors |
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#14 |
On a budget like Fred Sanford
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Topeka, KS
Posts: 2,031
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Both LS and SBC motors have their place. I currently have both, have built both, have made good power with both. For what you're doing I'd probably go LS. The streetability for a given HP level is far beyond the SBC and the power potential is far greater per dollar spent...... just looking at them funny picks up 15hp. Seriously. They are getting pretty common in salvage yards nowadays, around here you can pick up a complete 5.3 for $350 any day of the week.
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'85 Silverado swb: 383 stroker, 10.5:1, vortec heads, 232/238 roller cam, RPM air gap, performer 750 carb, stainless longtubes, 3" duals/super 44's, T56/4.11 383ci build / exterior refresh thread '98 Camaro z28: 370ci twin turbo 370ci build '01 Tahoe LT 4x4: 5.3, longtubes/ory, magnaflow duals, custom tune....wife's DD |
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#15 |
>130dB Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,130
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
On the 6spd Auto;
The 6L80E was first introduced in the GMT900 chasis and was placed behind the 6.2L motor found in the Escalade and Denali. At first it was only offered as a full-time AWD unit, but has since been given the 2wd treatment, starting in either late 2007 or early 2008. The overall length of the unit is not much longer that the 4L80E, but it is much larger in the mid section. I have an AWD version of the unit sitting in a warehouse right now patiently waiting for me to tear into it.
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Living Life @ 130dB LED Tail Light Conversion; How-to Friend. Father. Brother. RIP El Jay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CLICK HERE and for less than $0.07 a day, you too can help support and build a better forum. |
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#16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 2,316
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
So is the 6l80e a good part given the application or would it be better to look for something with a 4l80 transmission?
The application would be in my 2wd K5 and is still down the road a bit.
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2009 Honda Fit CfC (bsf 44.9 mpg) 2000 Tahoe Limited 1991 GMC CrewCab Dually 2wd, will end up swb, not dually and replace CCswb below 1991 GMC CrewCab Dually 4x4, just going to fix things up for now 1982/1989 K5/GMC Jimmy 2wd 1987 GMC 1/2 ton swb 2wd Crew (sold) Last edited by kevinr1970; 07-13-2009 at 02:39 PM. |
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#17 | |
>130dB Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 2,130
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Quote:
I plan to use the 6L80E that I have for CARB certification on my engine swap, then I have a big decsion to make; Swap in a 4L80E, or go AWD. One is easier, the other is more fun...
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Living Life @ 130dB LED Tail Light Conversion; How-to Friend. Father. Brother. RIP El Jay ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CLICK HERE and for less than $0.07 a day, you too can help support and build a better forum. |
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#18 |
www.73-87chevytrucks.com
![]() Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 6,935
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
LS all the way. If it isn't enough power, I can sell you an STS Setup for it...
TOM, where have you been?
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Chris Lucas 1973 Chevy C-10 1978 GMC Jimmy (2WD) - SOLD 1987 R10 twin turbo LS 1991 R3500 SRW CrewCab 1985 K5 diesel swapped project 1989 K5 2WD conversion w/ Vette susp Project Captkaos Customs 73-87chevytrucks.com |
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#19 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Salt Lake City UT
Posts: 441
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
I recently saw a local truck (69 GMC 3/4 ton 2wd) equipped with a 6.2 and matching trans. It was impressive. The owner said he bought the engine trans combo with all accessories and had the wiring harness worked to remove unneeded issues (VATs for one). The truck is now a daily driver with 18+ mpg, tows like a banshee and has cold A/C.
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Bailey, NC
Posts: 2,462
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
TCI recently released a 6 spd auto. Here's a link.
http://www.tciauto.com/whatsnew/File...ansmission.pdf
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Jeramy '84 GMC project truck '85 Chevy 4X4 SOLD '07 Chevy Trailblazer SS 5th Annual SHPHC Car/Truck Show Pics http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=543605 UPDATED PICS! CHECK 'EM OUT |
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#21 |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
It all depends upon your power goal and your budget.
I love the 6.0+ LS motors and will eventually build one for my truck and my Camaro but they are pretty expensive to get, wire, plumb and tune. You can build a 406 to make right at 350 hp with common 1.94 valve truck heads and a fairly mild hydraulic flat tappet cam for right at $2500 complete and it will drop right into your truck without changing a thing. I have this combination in my Malibu and it has been strong & reliable for the past 12 years. You will easily have $4000 into a stock 6.0 swap if you count all the cost of a custom wire harness, custom computer program to remove VATS (or buying the software to do it yourself), the custom headers, custom radiator, custom fuel system, etc... If you want to make more than about 350 hp then the 406 gets expensive very quickly. A decent pair of aftermarket heads put it right at the cost of the 6.0 swap but when you throw in a steel crank & good rods you go way past the 6.0 swap. As stated earlier a simple cam swap in the 6.0 can build amazing power with no other changes except tuning for the cam. If you are going to do the 6.0 swap then I would suggest you buy the software to tune it yourself. It will pay for itself many times over the life of the truck and any modifications you do to it. |
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#22 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 189
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
Quote:
Once I started adding it up, I got to thinking about the 6.0 swap. L92 heads and a cam swap put a 6.0 up to 550 hp according to Car Craft and that's way more than what I want or need.
__________________
Stu- 1981 GMC Sierra Classic LWB 355- original 2 bolt block, 10.2:1, vortec heads, Comp XE268 cam, built by self in 1992 700R4-2000 stall with lockup, shift kit, Corvette servo 3.07 open diff- I need a 3.73 posi! 2nd owner since 1986 - 388,000 km and counting. 100k by the first owner and the rest by me. |
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#23 |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
With the 400 blocks larger main journals most racers prefer the 2-bolt blocks. More meat in the main bearing saddle area. With only wanting 450 hp you can get away with just main studs in the 2-bolt block. You don't need to spend the bucks to install splayed main caps.
You can't go wrong with the Scat forged rotating assembly. I have used several of them on past projects and really liked the quality. My engine builder swears by them and hates the poor tolerances of the Eagle stuff. At 450 hp you can also get away with running a good aftermarket iron head and save some more cash. The Sportsman II is a great lower cost performance head. The cost savings over the AFR's will nearly pay for your bottom end. You just won't have the cool factor of the aluminum heads. Last edited by 68 TT; 07-21-2009 at 10:42 AM. Reason: TYPO |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,684
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
speartech and mast motorsports have what you need for the 6l80e
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1986 C10 SWB 6.0/6l90e Miami...Flee it like a native |
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Marietta, OK
Posts: 153
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Re: 6.0 LS or build a 406?
I am having the same problem... 406 vs. 6.0, and am trying to take into consideration all the parts I already have (all accessories, exhaust, new aluminum radiator and cooling system, etc.).
I am very happy with my current Demon carb setup and my fresh 700R4, and would want to keep both, even with a 6.0, which complicates the 6.0 swap. I have nearly decided on a 406, with forged 22cc dish pistons, six-inch rods, vortec heads and a Comp 12-212 and a Performer RPM Air-Gap (which I already have the cam and intake)... All my desktop dyno runs and internet/magazine/machine shop research says it should be around 425 hp and 525 lb. ft., and use my existing exhaust and accessories. |
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