1964 C10 suddenly running terrible

[dracko]

Hey Guys, I have run into an issue with my 64 C10 (6 cyl. 230) that is getting pretty frustrating. I bought it about a month ago and was driving it daily up until last week when it started suddenly just bogging out and stalling on me as I was driving it. Prior to that it was running excellent.

It would just suddenly start bogging and cutting out and then eventually stall and I would either push it/get it towed home or the one time I let it sit for about 15 minutes and it drove home fine...only to start running poorly the next day.

Since then I started digging around this board and doing some troubleshooting. I'll try to let you know all i've done and it'd be great if there are some suggestions on what to check next.

I have checked inside the gas tank: its clean as a whistle with no rust and clean fuel pickup inside.

Checked for fuel delivery by disconnecting the fuel line coming into the carb and turning on the electric fuel pump(Facet POSI-FLO). It pushed a good steady stream of fuel for the 30 seconds I had it on.

Checked fuel filter: its clean.

Rebuilt and cleaned the carb (Rochester BC), replaced accelerator pump, floats are functional and at correct height.

Adjusted the timing and checked the coil for spark.

Because of the cold weather I thought maybe condensation was freezing in the carb, so I put a heat pipe off the exhaust into the air cleaner, but that didn't do any good. Also added a bunch of fuel line antifreeze...that seemed to work initially, but now has no effect.

I tried to run the truck this morning and after starting up running rough and really surging, it eventually settled into a nice idle and then when I tried to drive it, as soon as I get the rpm's up and shift to 2nd it boggs out and starts trying to stall. I really had to rev it up before letting out the clutch to get it home.

Could the elevation change from Bozeman MT (4800 ft) to Regina SK (1800 ft) require changes to the carb settings?

SOrry for the incredibly long post, just wanted to give as much info as possible, and tips or advice is much appreciated, I wanna get back to driving this thing again!

thanks.

Dan

[4dranch]

How old is the gas in the tank? you might have some bad gas. just a thought.

[62gmc910]

my guess would be points or moisture in the distributor cap or maybe a coil going bad The spark should be blue/white if its orange it's not right
the altitude shouldn't be the problem
if you change points change condensor

[MacAttack]

You've already gone through all the correct basic steps and I don't know if you mentioned taking the distributor cap off - eyeballing everything under it and the cap itself for a severe crack?

[bedfordia]

I had something wierd happen to me with a car I used to own. A baffle came loose in the muffler and would sometimes pop up and stop up the exhaust. I'd shut off the engine and start back up, some times it would go a mile, sometimes 30 miles before it would do it again. It drove me crazy. I finally found it one day when I banged on the muffler and heard it rattle.

[Turkey]

could be a $5 air cleaner...it was on mine

[BMSJaX]

I vote for bad gas as well. You mentioned cold weather has it been snowin or raining just before it started having issues? The seal on your gas tank cap might be old and cracked allowing some water to enter your tank. I noticed this on mine and replaced it just before it started raining here. Cap should fit snug and not wiggle. If not this then I would look into an exhaust blockage next.

[dracko]

wow, I should've checked back in sooner! thanks for all the replies.

In terms of the gas, I will do a double check on the cap, but it has always seemed to seal up tight and the gas would be a week old max. I was driving it steady even when it started randomly acting up...until about a week ago when it just got out of hand.

since I've pretty much covered most fuel issues I could think of, i'm gonna take your guys advice and start going over the points/distributor/coil tomorrow morning. eventually i'd like to buy one of these HEI distributors, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-H...item439cc8bede but the points will have to do for now.

the exhaust is definitely in rough shape as well, but seems to be more leaking than blocked. but I will check it over for sure. really it should just be replaced.

the air filter is dirtier than sin, i will also pick one up tomorrow...although I don't think its the culprit because the truck ran like crap even with it removed temporarily....but who knows eh?!

thanks again for the help! its always good when you can get advice from folks that have actually dealt with these issues before.

[dracko]

well i don't know if the distributor adjuster nut wasn't tightened down or what, but timing was way off. i set it back to the 4 degrees BTDC and the truck idles and runs smooth again . checked under the dizzy cap and things look clean and dry. i also put in a new Wix air cleaner filter.

still don't think i'm out of the woods yet, because the truck was running fine when it would start stalling/bogging out earlier. but who knows...maybe it was the air filter??

won't know until it happens again i guess. then back to the drawing board

thanks again for the help guys!!

[62gmc910]

If the distributor was loose that may be the cause poor ground and bad timing
Hope so

[MacAttack]

Originally Posted by dracko

thanks again for the help guys!!

That's what this site's about!

Mac.

[ol Curt]

You could always go to a Pertronix unit. Takes about an hour to convert if you include the time to run the hot wore...otherwise, about 15 minutes.

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/new/details.aspx?ID=134


I also had one of these once...

http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/aca...?productid=125

[66GMC-Canuck]

An often overlooked component is the condensor. A failing condensor can give you all the symptoms you described. Need to be careful when replacing that you get a good one and not one of the Chinese made ones. Even new they are junk. You can also get a failing one that will run fine then start acting up again. Cheap replacement.

[dracko]

If the distributor was loose that may be the cause poor ground and bad timing
Hope so

good call. I never really thought about it being a poor ground too. if it happens again i'll be checking that its tight and unmoved....hopefully won't have to.

An often overlooked component is the condensor. A failing condensor can give you all the symptoms you described. Need to be careful when replacing that you get a good one and not one of the Chinese made ones. Even new they are junk. You can also get a failing one that will run fine then start acting up again. Cheap replacement.

Interesting. Is there any way to test a condensor to know if it needs replacing?

I have no idea how old it is, but considering the low cost, it couldn't hurt to swap in an Accel points/condensor kit.

[62gmc910]

A bad condenser allows material to move from one point contact to the the other in kind of a pointed build up
If the points wear relativly flat keep the condense
If you buy ignition parts blue streak and standard plus are usually good quality
never had bad parts in about 1000 sets(I repair /maintain alot of old equipment)just one box miss labeled
Like you said hope you have it fixed

[dracko]

A bad condenser allows material to move from one point contact to the the other in kind of a pointed build up
If the points wear relativly flat keep the condense
If you buy ignition parts blue streak and standard plus are usually good quality
never had bad parts in about 1000 sets(I repair /maintain alot of old equipment)just one box miss labeled
Like you said hope you have it fixed

thanks for the info, never heard of blue streak but i'll try'em if i go that route.

You could always go to a Pertronix unit. Takes about an hour to convert if you include the time to run the hot wore...otherwise, about 15 minutes.

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/new/details.aspx?ID=134


I also had one of these once...

http://www.stoveboltengineco.com/aca...?productid=125

I've heard good things about Langdon's systems, what did you think of it? good reliable ignition? since i'm going to be driving this truck daily for some time, I should probably just drop some cash and get one. that flamethrower looks pricey.

[terd ferguson]

Checking the condensor is good advice. They are very fragile. Drop one on the ground and it's toast. It's also quite common to get brand new ones that are bad for the same reason.

Here's some other things to check that may cause the same symptoms.

Accelerator pump sticking- rochesters are notorious for this, I know you rebuilt it and changed it but there could still be corrosion in there causing it to stick?

Power piston sticking- same deal as the accelerator pump.

Plastic/rubber bushing in the distributor case- these can become cracked over time allowing the wire going from the coil to the points to short out on the distributor case. I had this problem personally. Either replace the bushing or get a new dizzy. Advance Auto sells rebuilt Delcos for $43.

Bad/cracked/shorting ignition wiring- I also had problems here. There was literally only one strand of wire wrapped around my coil terminal. The same wire also broke in half about 6" upstream from there when I touched it.

Good luck, I hope it's already fixed.

[terd ferguson]

I would also check to see if your choke is performing properly. I assume you've got the BC with the auto (heat operated) choke? Did you mess with/adjust that when you rebuilt the carb?

[dracko]

Hey Terd, thanks for the additional ideas, whether the trucks acts up again or not i'll check them out.

Don't think its the accelerator pump because I was sure to sand it, and the channel it goes in, with some fine grit emery cloth to make sure it slides freely...didn't do that to the power piston though, should it get the same treatment?

really sounds like I should order up a new condenser just for peace of mind. Dumb question, but would one of those HEI ignitions from Langdon mean no more points/condenser? I put an electronic ignition on an old Honda motorcycle I had but not sure if its the same thing....small magnets inside for zero maintenance...set it and forget it? worked great on the bike.

My carb must be the B model, still has manual choke that works fine.

will check the bushing in the dizzy and the ignition wiring tomorrow. Thanks again! these are things I wouldn't normally look for.

[terd ferguson]

Originally Posted by dracko

Hey Terd, thanks for the additional ideas, whether the trucks acts up again or not i'll check them out.

Don't think its the accelerator pump because I was sure to sand it, and the channel it goes in, with some fine grit emery cloth to make sure it slides freely...didn't do that to the power piston though, should it get the same treatment?

really sounds like I should order up a new condenser just for peace of mind. Dumb question, but would one of those HEI ignitions from Langdon mean no more points/condenser? I put an electronic ignition on an old Honda motorcycle I had but not sure if its the same thing....small magnets inside for zero maintenance...set it and forget it? worked great on the bike.

My carb must be the B model, still has manual choke that works fine.

will check the bushing in the dizzy and the ignition wiring tomorrow. Thanks again! these are things I wouldn't normally look for.

These things weren't things I would normally look for either. But I had issues with all of them. They may or may not have been contributing to my 235 running like you described. I finally rebuilt the carb and fixed it. At least I think so, I haven't driven it much in the last few days since the carb rebuild. In my case, the likely culprit was the accelerator pump and power piston sticking in the down position from corrosion (I have a Rochester B with the manual choke). Also, the choke cable was frozen and not attached and I think the engine's vacuum was sucking the choke butterfly closed under heavy acceleration.

Basically, I had a goat f@ck going on under my hood. As soon as I'd fix an issue I found, it still wouldn't run right and I'd find another. I repeated that process until I had found and repaired problems with literally everything under the hood on the outside of the valve cover. After I installed a new wiring harness, I went methodically first through the ignition system and then the fuel system. From battery to generator and from tank to carb. The fuel pump and horn relay were the only things in the engine bay that didn't have an issue of some kind.

As I typed that, I just thought of another problem I had that is pretty common. The rubber elbow fuel line that's between the hard line coming off the tank and the hard line going to the fuel pump. They can get old and soft and collapse under suction blocking fuel delivery intermittently. I had that one too, lol.

I'm still scared the sputter will come back, because just like you, it would run fine then leave me stranded (and because I thought I "found the problem" so many times only to find another). But there's nothing else left to fix. It HAS to be taken care of. I noticed an immediate improvement after the carb rebuild. I have good oil pressure and no sticking, bent, or burnt valves. So it pretty much has to be something besides the engine itself.

There is some good news to all this madness though. I no longer have any questions as to the reliability of anything under the hood or electrical (I also replaced the wiring harness, it was a fire hazard, bare wires twisted together like dry kindling waiting on a spark, lol.). There is other good news too, I have increased my inline knowledge by about a thousand percent.



Oh and one last thing to check, lol. Vacuum leaks. The carb and intake manifold around the gaskets, specifically. That's my next step if it starts sputtering again, lol. Good luck, if you haven't fixed it yet, keep at it. You'll get it.

[terd ferguson]

All that talking and I never really answered your question. I don't have any experience with HEI on an inline, but yes, it replaces points and condensor. I used HEI on my last small block and it worked great though. That said, points/condensor ignition took many people from one side of the country to the other for many years. No reason to change it just for the sake of change, at least the way I see it. Besides, HEI is "ugly" and too new looking.

[dracko]

These things weren't things I would normally look for either. But I had issues with all of them. They may or may not have been contributing to my 235 running like you described. I finally rebuilt the carb and fixed it. At least I think so, I haven't driven it much in the last few days since the carb rebuild. In my case, the likely culprit was the accelerator pump and power piston sticking in the down position from corrosion (I have a Rochester B with the manual choke). Also, the choke cable was frozen and not attached and I think the engine's vacuum was sucking the choke butterfly closed under heavy acceleration.

Basically, I had a goat f@ck going on under my hood. As soon as I'd fix an issue I found, it still wouldn't run right and I'd find another. I repeated that process until I had found and repaired problems with literally everything under the hood on the outside of the valve cover. After I installed a new wiring harness, I went methodically first through the ignition system and then the fuel system. From battery to generator and from tank to carb. The fuel pump and horn relay were the only things in the engine bay that didn't have an issue of some kind.

As I typed that, I just thought of another problem I had that is pretty common. The rubber elbow fuel line that's between the hard line coming off the tank and the hard line going to the fuel pump. They can get old and soft and collapse under suction blocking fuel delivery intermittently. I had that one too, lol.

I'm still scared the sputter will come back, because just like you, it would run fine then leave me stranded (and because I thought I "found the problem" so many times only to find another). But there's nothing else left to fix. It HAS to be taken care of. I noticed an immediate improvement after the carb rebuild. I have good oil pressure and no sticking, bent, or burnt valves. So it pretty much has to be something besides the engine itself.

There is some good news to all this madness though. I no longer have any questions as to the reliability of anything under the hood or electrical (I also replaced the wiring harness, it was a fire hazard, bare wires twisted together like dry kindling waiting on a spark, lol.). There is other good news too, I have increased my inline knowledge by about a thousand percent.

LOL, and i thought i had it bad! great way to learn about your truck though...and know what you've got goin on under the hood! i'm gonna check on that fuel line too, my intermittant problem really seems like a fuel issue so its worth checking. the random issues are the worst eh, you think you've got them beat until you're stranded at home depot. i cringe saying it, but thank god for cell phones.

All that talking and I never really answered your question. I don't have any experience with HEI on an inline, but yes, it replaces points and condensor. I used HEI on my last small block and it worked great though. That said, points/condensor ignition took many people from one side of the country to the other for many years. No reason to change it just for the sake of change, at least the way I see it. Besides, HEI is "ugly" and too new looking.

YUP, i'd like to avoid putting anything billet or even chrome under the hood. i'll stick with the points until i have some cash to throw around or they take a crap.

thanks for the help on this one! even if these aren't whats causing the issue, they're great things to check/replace if needed.

[4dranch]

Just a question for you, have you tried useing another fuel supply source like a hose to a gas can and let it run for a little while.

[dracko]

Just a question for you, have you tried useing another fuel supply source like a hose to a gas can and let it run for a little while.

hey, i haven't tried this. are you thinking maybe something is blocking the fuel pickup in the tank? it looked real clean inside when i checked...and pumped fuel good when i disconneted the fuel line and pumped it into a jar.

[terd ferguson]

Originally Posted by dracko

hey, i haven't tried this. are you thinking maybe something is blocking the fuel pickup in the tank? it looked real clean inside when i checked...and pumped fuel good when i disconneted the fuel line and pumped it into a jar.

Don't know about your situation, but I thought of this too. In my case, I pulled the fuel sending unit. While the strap was broken preventing the gas gauge from working, the gas tank looked like brand new inside. The sock on the sending unit pickup was clean and clear as well. I changed the sendiing unit and rubber elbow line with no change to the stumble/sputter. The gas gauge worked after that though.

I seriously doubt your problem was with your tank or fuel line.