LED Questions Before Buying..>>>

[chevjayfsd]

1)How much are they

2)Will they ever burn out (I don't want to keep spending 100 dollars or so to replace them every year.)

3)How customizable are they (Design wise, Like Just getting the outer leds to come run when your lights are on and then when you push on the brake they all come on..) <<Not to big of a deal though

4)Are there available park light LED's

That's it...

The only main thing i am worried about is No. 2

Thanks
Jason

[Reumster]

chevjayfsd

Price is depending on what kind you want. Our production LED inserts with 168 LEDs per side are 80.00 .

LEDs have a life of 100,000 hours. They will outlast your truck.

I can make custom LED boards. More expensive though.

Soon we'll offer front parking inserts.

[GMCPaul]

Myself I would like to know when you will ever stabalize a price? It seems to change daily to weekly? I can provide quotes from both you and Joel where retail has been
$75
$120
$95
$90
and now $80
and it was as recent as 1-29-2003 that the post was made stating you had finally reached a stabilized price at $99 + $10 shipping and handling.
We are at the point now that were planning to discontinue our stocking them all together because WE NEVER KNOW what the price will be 24 hours after being told the price because it does change so much.
GMCPaul

[c10crazy]

I'm with GMCPaul on this one. The price is always different!. The last I heard these were $99 and it was stated that the people who bought early jumped in on a good deal!. Now they are back down to $80. What's up with that?. His website lists them for $75.

[FRENCHBLUE72]

I also agree i wanted to buy a set but could not justify 100$$ then the price went down so now i think i should get on the band wagon before the price goes up agian!!!!

[cheyenne10]

These look like an excellent product and it makes sense to me to have online vendors be able to supply LED lights to us. When the price was $75 I was hesitant but excited. When post came out at $99 +$10 I though "only on my nicest truck", when I saw GMCPauls price on website at $120 I pretty much hung up idea. I am one that if I do tiallights I realy want to do cargo/backup light version and front indicators, and side markers. I would like to see a package deal for at least taillights and cargo/backup combo. If this was available now for good package price I would probably buy that set now and if they are as great as everyone says then I would expand from there. I have several of these trucks but need to put each on a budget and if the spending gets to high for 1 truck then I back off. I know I hear fiddles playing for me, but really I need to stay married!!

Lets keep working this one to a win-win-win situation

[70 Jimmy]

Just sounds like a new businessman trying to get the best price to the customer without cutting too deep into profit. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing more flexibility in pricing on other products. I'm sure most vendors don't "pass the savings on to you". Ease up a little and give him credit for trying. Just my opinion, but your welcome to it.

[PHOENIX]

Hi Im from the 73-87 board

Anyway I was in here checking you guys out for the first time.

I also found a problem with his web site.

Quoted direct from his web link:
"1. These bulbs will never burn out, period!"

So what is it? 100,000 hours or never?
Theres a huge difference there if you ask me.

EDIT:
I also find this hard to believe:
"It means that on average, if you and the driver behind you are driving 60 miles per hour and you had to hit the brake, the guy behind you would see your lights 70 feet sooner than if you had a bulb"

Anyway Im not trying to put down your product at all, because it does seem like a great product and I would consider it if that was my year of truck. But inconsistancies in advertising usually mean inconsistancies in products, but not always.

[cheyenne10]

Reumster;

I re-read my post and I want to make sure I did not display any discouragement or negativity. I do believe you are making wonderful products and as you always have stated that you didn't want to make a killing on them rather to pay for the parts, manufacturing and your time and hassle (this would be goofd business sense).

Phoenix;

If I do the math on 100,000 hrs that could be 100,000/ 10 hrs/day = 10,000 days/365 days-yr = 27.4 yrs. With this exagerated example it sounds way better than we could imagine.

GMCPaul;

If I saw your price online and I was getting ready to order I would contact you to confirm. You offer great products and these should and most likely will be an asset for your customers.

I look forward to moving up to these soon.

[Project1970]

I just worked out the math... 60mph is 88 feet per second. A difference of 70 feet would require nearly a full second's worth of difference in the time it takes for an 1157 to light and the time it takes the arrays to light.

Realize I did that not as any sort of way to discredit Reumster & co; I've got the 168 (or 162? I keep forgetting...eh, I probably couldn't tell the difference between that few, heh) LED arrays in my truck and I absolutely LOVE them. But a figure like that is hard to believe, and, honestly, not true... Phoenix is right, inconsistencies in advertising / extreme claims will make customers skeptical.

It's really a shame there's no way to explain how much better these are except to see them in person...hmm, maybe a video of these might make it a little more obvious?

I should also note I do believe these are much safer than 1157's...not from the time/distance standpoint, though, but because it's EXTREMELY obvious the difference between off, low, and high. I've seen far too many cars going down the road where if the sun was reflecting just right, you couldn't tell if the tails were off or on low; and plenty that, on high, barely qualified as lights. With these LEDs...there is NO mistaking.

[sano_surfer]

for anyone that is skeptical about the led inserts i put them in my truck and was instantly satisfied with them. instead of just the top half of the lenses being lit wiht the standard 1157 bulb the whole lense is now lit up. at night when i am driving down the street and hit the brakes i can see thje reflection of my tail lights on the window of the car behind me. couldn't see that before with an 1157. another nice thing about the leds is when you turn on the turn signal or hit the brakes the leds are a crisp flash, not the dim fade from parking to brake light like you get from an 1157. so if you have doubts just look at how bright the new street lights are and imagine them in the back of your truck. and reumster keep the good stuff comming

[Reumster]

I'm truly sorry for all the confusion. But please understand that all we want to do is bring these inserts to the customer at the lowest possible price, and still make it worth our time. I'm new to this and I wasn't aware of all the extra hidden cost involved in production.

Take for example these another company offering 67 Camaro inserts. They use 1 10mm LED in the center for parking/ and 19 5mm LEDs for brake. And sell for 99.95! Only 20 total LED per side! Um 20, or 168?



Ours use all 168 for parking, and all 168 for brake. Keeping the lense fully lit for parking no shady spots.

It's also hard to cordinate between Joel and I being that he lives in CA and I live in PA. And we both work full time jobs also. I really don't think the majority of you realize how awsome our inserts are, and that to my knowledge are the only ones who offer this many LEDs per insert. In a year make model specific aplication.

As far as the speed this is the fact LEDs illuminate 20% faster than standard bulbs. And you'll never use 100,000 hours in your life most likely. LEDs are superior to standard bulbs in everyway.

Again I don't want to get into other issues right now but if anyone has any personal questions please e-mail me direct.

Thank all of you that have tried our products.

[hobby67stepside]

It's always appeared to me that the 3rd brakelight on the new vechicles light a tiny bit sooner than the lower lights. I thought it was my eyes playing tricks on me. Now I think I understand.

[GMCPaul]

I am not saying they are not a good product, in my opinion there outstanding!! Never seen a faster acting brighter set up yet! But you need a stabilized price!!!
I understand intially not taking everything into account, BUT you were supposed to have done a spread sheet in December showing all your costs to determine prices then you supposedly set a price, well its changed 4 times since$120, $95, $99, $80
I fully understand you need to make a profit and not $2 a pair but a fair profit as who wants to sell 100 pair to make $200 for HOURS of work!! But WE NEED A STABLE PRICE!!!!
Do the spread sheet and take into account
LED's + delivery to you
Wires in 3 colors + delivery to you
Circuit Boards + delivery to you
1157 sockets + delivery to you
1157 socket wire shields + delivery to you
solder + delivery to you
flux + delivery to you
Resistors, diodes etc... + delivery to you
Tape + delivery to you
hot glue + delivery to you
shipping boxes + delivery to you
bubble wrap to protect + delivery to you
manufacturing cost
yours and Joel's profit off sales retail & wholesale
= TOTAL retail & wholesale price before any shipping & handling to retail and wholesale customer that does not fluctuate unless costs on any of above fluctuate by much.
Just a stabile price is ALL WE WANT but your the ones who have to establish it THEN STICK BY IT!!
GMCPaul

[Reumster]

hobby67stepside

That is a perfect example. You can see that the LEDs in third brake lights are quicker than the standard bulbs. The reason being, is that a standard incadesant bulb tungstan filament must actually heat up to create light. So you can actually see the bulb getting dimmer and brighter. LEDs don't do that. The light produced by LEDs doesn't create the heat that a standard bulb does. Unlike incandescent bulbs,LEDs resist shock and vibration and can be turned on and off without excessive degradation.

[Jmac05]

The reason the price fluctuated was because I didn't take into account some things. So, After we got a partnership with an established company to help the two of us do business correctly, we have finally got an established price, that won't change. I don't appreciate GMC Paul using the tone that he did. We did appologize for it, and I even put a thread on this board to explain some of this before...
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...threadid=38392

Apparently they were a little more understanding. I haven't ever run a company before, or sold a product. I think we should be allowed a little slack in the first three months in business. By the way. EVERY VENDOR CHANGES PRICES ON EVERYTHING. They are called sales, or closeouts, or whatever. Unfortunately for us, we were getting acquainted with all of it for the first time.
Ask those who have bought a pair if they are happy with them. That in and of itself should justify the price up to the $120 GMC Pauls is charging.
The idea they will never burn out. If you own your truck 30 years from now, they will still work. Can they burn out? Yes. How?
lighting strikes, too much water in the housings causing shorts. Will they burn out with proper use and care over the life of your car. I will say no. What am I willing to bet? A new set of lights, thats what. If your lights burn out and it's because of poor workmanship, or any other errror on our part, We'll replace them, happily. Does anyone else make this offer? I have to have our customers happy with our product, period. Otherwise there is no reason to be in business.
The stopping range claim was given to me. Did I check the math, no. I didn't think I needed to. Another mistake on my part. Sorry, Do they make a difference, drive behind a pair sometime, and you tell me. You better believe that they do.
If my tone is somewhat irked, it's simply because your abilities to sense such things are working properly. I am a little irked at GMC Pauls. They were the first company we offered to help us with our lights. To tell the truth he has bought the majority of what we have sold, which hasn't been many. I am disapointed to see that he has taken this approach to vent his frustration,after I had explained to him , and why the cost change. I didn't want to change the cost. But it came down to the fact that every sale we made we were sending out money with each pair we shipped. We were losing in the vicinity of $20,every time. Is it fair to them to go back and ask the folks that got a Jackson with every pair to send him back? NO, it's not. Is it fair to me to lose money every time? No. Once we partnered with D2M, they help us with finding different sources for materials, shipping, everything. We finally got a price we believe will be good for a long time. They have got us not only on the right track, but are helping us get down it quicker and more efficiently.
But, I appologize for the price changes. Call them sales if that makes you feel better.

As for new information, we have 60-66 CHEVY AND GMC ready for sale. Please see the website. I also have a set of 73-87 fleetside prototypes I will be testing this week. Once they are done, we can get them into fabrication. You may be turned off by what I said before. I am sorry to here that, I don't like the idea of being smacked on the back of the head a few times without being able to say anything about it, either. That's not fair, and it's not good business to let others who are ignorant of the reasons why a change has occured to bad mouth or question them. We did what we did out of ignorance. We may lose some customers over this. So be it, I am sorry. But don't bad mouth a situation unless you know everything of what's going on, and, AND you have be slighted by it.

[BUXMAN66]

you have a great product reumster.......and don't pay attention to the critics.maybe some of the critics should be running thier OWN business a little better........ie, answering phones,answering e-mails, etc. THIS HAS BEEN A PROBLEM IN THE PAST W/ SOME UNNAMED BUSINESS'S!!!!!

[lost wages]

gmc paul is trying to help you by giving you more sales, in this thread the price is 80 dollars, ive seen it at several prices. Why would gmc paul try to sell them for 120 dollars when your saying they are 80 dollars? Gmc paul has been in bussiness for awhile, he knows the way it works, instead of jumping his case, work with him and if you have too, dont put out a product till its ready. I would like a set but do i pay you 80 or gmc paul 120? I think thats his main beef here. You have said that he has bought the majority of them,why try to ruin that? would you carry my product if i advertised it at 1/3 off if you get it from me? Just my opinion, and i really am interested in them, but like alot of people we are waiting for the price to stabilize.

[Jmac05]

___I am not jumping anyone's case. I was forced to justify myself, and that's what I did. The price is set. If you buy from us retail, you will pay $99, plus shipping. If you are a wholeseller, we have a special wholesale price. I am not trying to paint GMC Paul as a bad guy either. I am gratefull for the sets he has bought, as well as the page he dedicated for them. I was disapointed in the way he chose to vent his frustration about the pricing slides, after we had discussed why they were happening. I will sell GMC Paul as many sets as he wants. I will sell anyone the number they want. The price is stable now, it don't see it changing, and we will be having new products coming out with stable prices, as we have a partnership tht will allow us to run like we are supposed to.
___Those are the facts, I am not going to interject anything else other than facts. Ryan and I aren't out to get rich. If you read about the other company who are illegaly using a patent to make taillights, that still don't compare to ours, you will see, we offer the best product, period. We have had some groing pains, but we are past them now. We are not in it to be millionaires. We'd have to sell a great many more taillight pairs than I think are trucks out there to become millionaires. We saw a cool Idea, saw a potential need, and filled it without a great deal of profit to ourselves. Our first two or three months profit wouldn't cover any advertising, other than maybe a single banner. That's are whole profit. I shelled out over 5 Grand to get the first ones built. Then I am losing money, and I am a bad guy for trying to fix the price so don't lose even more? We are taking a financial risk by doing these. If you think we're doing a bad job, I'd like to see a list of people who are willing to step up, and beat us. Here's a hot tip, I do this stuff(design circuit boards) all day every day. It's not easy, and it takes years to get good at it. Then, you have to start forking over your own money to get them made. You may see a profit soon if you are lucky.
___Any one else want to do it? Have at it. Start your own company and lets see how many speed bumps you are able to avoid. Then lets see how many you own up to.
___If you want a pair, they are $99. If you don't, that's fine too, but please don't complain until you understand, and I really mean know where I not only am coming from but where I have been.
___P.s. For those of you who have been positive, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. My hat's off to you, and I am going to be talking with all involved on my end for some kind of loyalty discount to previous purchasers. I'll be taking care of those of you who are really see we aren't selling snake oil, or trying to jerk anyone around.

[1971short4X4]

Just a quick note to again state that these led inserts are the best modification i have done to my truck. With the lights off it looks stock, with the lights on it looks totally trick, and it is safer.

Joel and Ryan are great guys, They are trying to sell the best product on the market, at the best price they can. (I personally admire them for what they are doing)

All i can say is try the LED inserts and I do not think you will ever be disappointed that you did.

Thanks

Tom

[lost wages]

i have no doubt they are a fantastic product or that building them is very difficult, what chevjayfsd asked in the start of this thread is, among other things, how much are they, and ruemster replied 80 dollars each. Then gmc paul has them on the site for 120, now you say 99. I think your "loyalty" discount is kinda silly but you are the president and ceo. How do they mount in the truck? do you take out the original tail light bucket? Im not trying to rock the boat, I wish you the best of luck in your venture. Is the price 99 for one or the pair?

[Reumster]

Pricing is for one pair.

Install is simple Pull your lense off take your standard bulb out. Plug the 1157 bulb base coming of the LED board with wires into stock housing put board into lense, tuck wires into housing pocketwhile putting lense back on. Screw lense back on.

Pricing is always per pair.

[ChevLoRay]

You've no doubt read all the posts above, to get to this point. My point is that I have tried two other sources for LED bulbs. Those offered by APC are garbage. They are dim and cannot match the light output from a standard 1157 bulb.

I have installed LED bulbs from Ledtronics.com, in my tail lights. I am quite satisfied with them. However, at a delivered price of nearly $100 for two of them, they are not cheap. They use a 10mm center LED, and surround it with 16 smaller (5mm?) LED's. Half of the smaller ones are pointed to the lens. The others are arranged around the circumference of the bulb to illuminate the socket, which is intended to reflect the light from the bulb. So, the condition of your lamp sockets and housings is a point for contention, regardless of the bulb you use, incandescent or LED.

Use this information as you see fit. I just threw it into the pile for comparison.

Now, you know.

[Reumster]

There you have it close to 100.00 for Ledtronics 1157 bulb replacements don't even come close to our LED boards.

[PHOENIX]

How much do you think the LED lights for the 73-87 fleetsides? Im sure you will get a few sales from that side of the forum. I know I will consider it. The reasons I stated above would not stop me from buying the products. I was just trying to let you aware that when you advertise things, it can get you in trouble. I do some of the advertising for the company I work for. And you have to get certain things in writing, try to get manufactures of the components to put stuff in writing, then advertise it. Then its not your problem. Once you have a price and maybe even a picture, I would highly recommend that you post it in the 73-87 forum. Can we buy direct from you to save a few bucks?