AC retrofit questions Old + New

[El Campo]

First off I have 72 with a 535 BBC that is street driven. I am in the process of putting the Kwik Performance serpentine belt setup on the motor (the one that adapts factory SBC brackets and ALL accessories to BB [even Tall blocks like mine]). It gets HOT in south Texas and since I have a factory air cab anyways why not put a working AC in it?. I have the factory box on the firewall and was wondering if its possible to put everything forward of the box from an early 90's truck? Also, if possible, what would this all include and can you get AC hoses made that would join the new parts to my old box?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by El Campo

First off I have 72 with a 535 BBC that is street driven. I am in the process of putting the Kwik Performance serpentine belt setup on the motor (the one that adapts factory SBC brackets and ALL accessories to BB [even Tall blocks like mine]). It gets HOT in south Texas and since I have a factory air cab anyways why not put a working AC in it?. I have the factory box on the firewall and was wondering if its possible to put everything forward of the box from an early 90's truck? Also, if possible, what would this all include and can you get AC hoses made that would join the new parts to my old box?

I talked about this yesterday http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=473710.
Using those parts will convert it to a "fixed Orifice" type system.
What compressor are you going to use? I hope Its NOT a R4 (88-95).
What refrigerant are you planning on running...With all the radiant heat that big engine will put out...134A will probably not cool very well...R12 would do alot better with lower pressures.
Running some type of heat barrier on the engine side of the evaporator box will help to. Custom hoses are no big deal.....If you want use this thread as a A/C build thread with lots of pics I will walk you through every step if you want.

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

I talked about this yesterday http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=473710.
Using those parts will convert it to a "fixed Orifice" type system.
What compressor are you going to use? I hope Its NOT a R4 (88-95).
What refrigerant are you planning on running...With all the radiant heat that big engine will put out...134A will probably not cool very well...R12 would do alot better with lower pressures.
Running some type of heat barrier on the engine side of the evaporator box will help to. Custom hoses are no big deal.....If you want use this thread as a A/C build thread with lots of pics I will walk you through every step if you want.

What is the problem with an R4 compressor?

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by ItsRandy

What is the problem with an R4 compressor?

They are a GM/Harrison "space saver" "lower cost" replacement for the A6 that came on our trucks untill the early 80s. Im open to any good experience you have had with them?

[ItsRandy]

Originally Posted by clinebarger

They are a GM/Harrison "space saver" "lower cost" replacement for the A6 that came on our trucks untill the early 80s. Im open to any good experience you have had with them?

So an A6 compressor is a "pancake" compressor? I don't have any experience with the R4, there is a guy in Georgia making a BB ac bracket using the R4 compressor I was going to buy. Do the R4 compressors have a high failure rate or short lifespan?

[El Campo]

That would be FANTASTIC!!! I am
an AC idiot having never even hardly touched one before. I will go check that link out and will do as u say. I was thinking 134a and using a compressor off of a 94 truck (I believe those were 134a) but if u say that the r12 is better than that would be easy too. (my daily driver is a Ford F350 so I am used to a super AC, I know I know I said the F word).
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[El Campo]

Are you suggesting buying these parts new from the parts store or is salvage stuff ok? When you talk about the R4 that is the actual compressor itself you are speaking of right? Even though the early model ones run R12 correct? Unfortunately that is the compressor that this kit calls for!! Is there any way to make that work or no? (BTW I am going to be up in Ft Worth this weekend! My GF parents live there up in Hicks Airfield)

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by El Campo

That would be FANTASTIC!!! I am
an AC idiot having never even hardly touched one before. I will go check that link out and will do as u say. I was thinking 134a and using a compressor off of a 94 truck (I believe those were 134a) but if u say that the r12 is better than that would be easy too. (my daily driver is a Ford F350 so I am used to a super AC, I know I know I said the F word).
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Thats one thing Ford does better than GM.

Originally Posted by El Campo

Are you suggesting buying these parts new from the parts store or is salvage stuff ok? When you talk about the R4 that is the actual compressor itself you are speaking of right? Even though the early model ones run R12 correct? Unfortunately that is the compressor that this kit calls for!! Is there any way to make that work or no? (BTW I am going to be up in Ft Worth this weekend! My GF parents live there up in Hicks Airfield)

Buy NEW stuff.
R4 is the compressor, They are POS compressors, Buy a NEW AC-Delco one. It will work, Just dont know how long.
Compressors dont care what refrigerant there pumping. 93 & 94 use the same R4 but 93 is R12 94 is 134A.

[El Campo]

Clinebarger, I read on here or some site similar that some AC tech posted that said that his shop put an orifice from an 89 crown Victoria in every GM car that ever came through the door. Claimed this one thing enables them to blow something like 29 degrees out of the vent. Ever heard of anything like this? Does it make sense and would that be possible with your system? ( I don't like the sounds of the aftermarket systems that will not blow any colder than 45 degrees no matter what)
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[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by El Campo

Clinebarger, I read on here or some site similar that some AC tech posted that said that his shop put an orifice from an 89 crown Victoria in every GM car that ever came through the door. Claimed this one thing enables them to blow something like 29 degrees out of the vent. Ever heard of anything like this? Does it make sense and would that be possible with your system? ( I don't like the sounds of the aftermarket systems that will not blow any colder than 45 degrees no matter what)
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Using a smaller Ford orifice tube can lower evaporator core temp when using 134A, But your putting more load (higher head pressure) on a compressor thats inferior in design to begin with. R12 IS a superior refrigerant, Its better at dissipating heat, Carries refrigerant oil better, & at a slower leak rate...Compared to 134a.

Yes, To buy R12,Freeze12 you need a "Refrigerant Handling Licence", I have one, & any good Automotive Tech should.

[Zoomin]

Subscribing.
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[JORGIE95961]

Suscribed

[C20-67_N_MO]

Guys I thought you could not run R12 anymore. And the EPA wants everyone to goto the "environmentally" friendly R134a.

I've been know to be wrong but on this not so sure.

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by C20-67_N_MO

Guys I thought you could not run R12 anymore. And the EPA wants everyone to goto the "environmentally" friendly R134a.

I've been know to be wrong but on this not so sure.

You can still get R12, very expensive and you have to have your certification card to buy it...(I have one)....Mexico still produces it if I am right.

Smitty

[leddzepp]

I still use R-12.

[C20-67_N_MO]

Hmmmm interesting.

And it is suppose to cool better than R134a too huh?

Wonder why all the car companies switched then?

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by C20-67_N_MO

Hmmmm interesting.

And it is suppose to cool better than R134a too huh?

Wonder why all the car companies switched then?

EPA changed the rules and all car companies were supposed to change over around 92, if you take the 609 certification you will learn all the back ground info on all the rule changes/Montreal Protocol, stuff like that.

Smitty

[El Campo]

And what makes a Ford AC so good? My brother went 300,000 miles in his F 350 and never touched it and it blows colder than any GM vehicle I have ever been in. If what you all say and it has something to do with the condensor could you put a Ford condensor in the system (as long as it physically fit) if you are making custom hoses anyways ? Would this help or no? Is it possible?

[leddzepp]

R-12 is sold on Ebay all the time. It is expensive, but not hard to find. Anybody can buy it, all you have to do is fill out a letter of resale.

[71meangreenc10]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

R-12 is sold on Ebay all the time. It is expensive, but not hard to find. Anybody can buy it, all you have to do is fill out a letter of resale.

Just because its sold on ebay doesnt make it ok to buy it. I wouldnt want to be there if a inspector was on ground and you didnt have your 609 certification. Sounds really fishy to me ....


Smitty

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 71meangreenc10

Just because its sold on ebay doesnt make it ok to buy it. I wouldnt want to be there if a inspector was on ground and you didnt have your 609 certification. Sounds really fishy to me ....


Smitty

This guy has been selling it for years on Ebay with no problems, and he is not the only one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/R12-R...Q5fAccessories Read his ad, he has 609 certification, and claims it is legal. He even lists his phone number. Nobody is stopping him...

It is sold and bought here at swap meets all the time. I have never seen or heard of the freon police hassling anyone.

[El Campo]

Gentlemen, after doing more research I see that Kwik Performance ( the company that makes the brackets that I am using to put new SBC serpentine system) offers this compressor for 220 bucks:
Air Conditioner Compressor
Sanden SD5H14 compressor
Uses R134a Freon (is it possible to run R12 through this?)
Ready to bolt on to any Kwik Performance
air conditioner bracket.
7 grooves
Port sizes 3/4" and 7/8", located on top rear
of compressor.
Oil capacity 175cc.
12 volt
Would this be the best choice for me?
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[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by El Campo

Gentlemen, after doing more research I see that Kwik Performance ( the company that makes the brackets that I am using to put new SBC serpentine system) offers this compressor for 220 bucks:
Air Conditioner Compressor
Sanden SD5H14 compressor
Uses R134a Freon (is it possible to run R12 through this?)
Ready to bolt on to any Kwik Performance
air conditioner bracket.
7 grooves
Port sizes 3/4" and 7/8", located on top rear
of compressor.
Oil capacity 175cc.
12 volt
Would this be the best choice for me?
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Sanden Compressor are GREAT, Yes you can run R12, Just drain the PAG/134a oil out & put mineral/R12 oil in.

[mcbassin]

Now you guys got me thinking....... I am planning to install an aftermarket kit in my 69 project (Vintage Air). I already have the kit and an LS engine.
Question 1. does anyone know if the sanden style compressor that came with the kit will mount on the LS engine (just change to serp style belt pulley?)
Question 2. Should I go with R-12 gas? (I have a case on hand purchased in the late 80s pre ban)

dang I'm getting old.....99 cents a can back then
thanks experts

[RichardJ]

The SD5H14 is the compressor they now sell for use with 134a and has PAG oil in it. It replaced the old SD-508 that was used for R12 and would have had mineral oil.
Retrofits from R12 systems to 134a usually call for ester oil because it is compatable with mineral oil and PAG is not. You can't get all the mineral oil out of the compressor by just trying to pour it out.
I would get other opinions on pouring the PAG out and filling with mineral oil.

I don't understand why so many want to stick with the R12. Has anyone here been in a brand new car since 1995 that didn't blow cold air? Please understand that to mean NEW and not a sixteen year old '95 car with tired AC system.
134a systems that don't perform well are the result of something that was missed.
You really need a better condenser than was used originally with the R12. Find a condenser that is sold for use with 134a, preferably a "Parallel Flow" unit. These units have a tank on both ends. The tubes are much larger, but partially flattened to allow more air flow through the fins.
The old R12 condensers have 3/8" tubes that loop around on the ends and pass back through.

My '67 has a SD-508 used, from a VW Golf with; ester oil, 134a and a Parallel Flow condenser from a '00 Chrysler 300. Blows plenty cold and the cab has more air leaks and rattling windows than I care to mention.