Anyone else having problems with new MII alignment?

[Jemo]

The suspension and engine have been in the frame for over a year so I thought the springs would settle by now but they have not. This is a TCI Mustang II front end. I'm about ready to take it for the first drive in the next week or two but how?



The driver side is bad but nothing as bad as the passenger side. I called the place I bought the kit from and they said this is a common question and that the springs will settle after driving the truck a little bit. He said to throw some old tires on the truck and just drive it. HUH?!!!

Pic of passenger control arm:



A friend who stopped by yesterday agrees there is no adjustment left in the control arm and thinks I might have to lengthen them. See how the control arms are at an angle?

Springs:



The springs seem too tall and I say that because they're bowed in the middle. I just don't see them settling that much.

Any advice?

[_Ogre]

mine looked the same until i got the truck ALL together.
hood, fenders, grill, all glass, interior all add weight to the front end.
two years with all the weight on my truk and i'm thinking it might be too low.
don't cut or change anything until you have it all together.

[jimig1]

I have a TCI kit too and in the instructions it says to put about 1000 miles on before making any modifications to the springs.

[DransportGarage]

From where I'm standing it looks like a tie rod adjustment problem to me. Are the tie rods adjusted all the way in? If not, adjust them in and see if the problem improves/goes away. I would then re-center your control arms (until you're ready for the alignment shop) and see how it looks.

If this does not work the IFS may be too wide for the application. You may be able to compensate for this by cutting off some of the threaded rod that the tie rods thread onto. Whatever you do, when you're all done be sure you have plenty of thread engaged in the tie rods!

Driving the 1000 miles won't cause the springs to compress or weaken. It just ensures that the springs are seated in the pockets.


Bob

[BuiltwithIvy]

trust the guy, a couple miles down it road will help it, it could be that the springs are not seated all the way, and the only to to get them to that I know of is to let the road pressure of a bump push them in

[DransportGarage]

I definitely would not drive the truck with the alignment as shown. I've done a lot of crazy things, but that truck's not safe. I'll bet that the guy that said to drive it didn't see the pic.

[Rude Dude]

Things that TCI didnt tell me was there are three coils springs for Mustang II
4 cyl, 6cyl and V8 cars. 4 cyl are good for light weight front ends, like 38 Chevy cars, 6 cyl springs good for AD Trucks and small V8 cars, the V8 coils good for big block cars and 55-59 Trucks with A/C. Your springs look a little to long my arms sit level but I cut one coil and drop spindles. If you are using a T-Bird or later Mustang Power Rack the tire rods are a we bit longer, I used the early style pre 79 Mustang II power rack tie rods, cause if it is a TCI power rack they have extensions inside the joint (inner tie rod) pushing the tie rod out further.

[cajundragger]

I changed the a arm lengths on my front end I got from scotts. I just couldn't get it low enough with the camber curve I wanted. I moved the upper control arm pivot too.

with that said I don't think you have enough going on to rework a tried and true setup. I'd drive it like the guy said.

or nut up and cut the coils and just keep in mind you may have to buy another set of coils if/when they settle too far.

[Kabwe]

Hey Jemo,

I agree with Rude Dude I the the springs are the problem. Do not cut anything this first. Remove the springs and make some mockup springs out of some steel tubing so that the lower a-arms are parallel with the ground. Then try to adjust your alignment if it fine nothing is wrong with your installation. It does not cost you anything to test before you start cutting at stuff.

Here is a pic of how I mocked mine up. If you look closely no springs are installed just some round stock I used as mock up. If you can align it here nothing is wrong with the installation and I would look into softer springs. Your lower a-arms should be close to parallel to the ground like Rude Dude's is in his picture.

[DransportGarage]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

Hey Jemo,

<snip> Remove the springs and make some mockup springs out of some steel tubing so that the lower a-arms are parallel with the ground. <snip>

This is a good tip. Fatman ships tubes with their kits that fit over the shocks that do the same thing. His are about 3" long. They have to be long enough to get the lower control arms parallel to the ground, as was said. Once you get the tubes in you can adjust your tie rod ends and pull those tires in.

[Chevette]

These pics won't fix you're problem, but they may help a bit.

[72Mountaineer]

I know what you mean by thinking that your springs are too long. I just installed my TCI kit and had a very hard time just installing the springs. I called TCI and they told me about a trick using a ratchet strap to hold the frame down and it worked. As you can see, I also don't yet have any weight on the frame, but I can't see how weight will help, it looks as though when the springs compress they will bind and there will be no movement at all. Once when I talked to TCI they said that most all springs need to be cut at least 1/2 coil, probably 1 full coil before it works out the best.

[tmoble]

that right front is way toed out. straighten it out with the tie rod adjusters and see how it looks.

The guys are right about the lower A-arm be approx level, parallel with the ground. that's with all the weight on.

I'd get the toe fixed about right and forget about it till all the weight on on it.

[tmoble]

the way that A-arm is adjusted is all wrong too. Put the front in about the center and the back all the way in towards the engine. The way it is now your caster is bass-ackwards making the whole thing look awful.

The upper ball joint should be behind the lower like 1/4 to 1/2" to start. Eyeball it.

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by tmoble

the way that A-arm is adjusted is all wrong too. Put the front in about the center and the back all the way in towards the engine. The way it is now your caster is bass-ackwards making the whole thing look awful.

The upper ball joint should be behind the lower like 1/4 to 1/2" to start. Eyeball it.

I noticed that in the first photo. I'd put both front and back in the middle of the slot to start and get it to the front end shop. There is no sense trying to get it closer until all of the weight is back on the car including nose, bumper, ac if you run it and the interior. A hundred pounds or so will change the readings again if you do.

You can set the toe in with a tape measure by jacking up each wheel and marking a stripe around the middle of the tread with a pencil while you turn the tire slowly and then measuring from pencil mark to pencil mark front and back on each tire and subtracting the front measurement from the back measurement. You always want to bounce the vehicle a few times after you let it down off the jack to level it out though.

As for the front springs Mustang II's shipping weight ran between 2620 lbs and 2866 lbs but if you ever looked under the hood of one a lot of the engine weight was in front of the front axle line and the cars were/are weight biased to the front a lot more than our trucks are.

[tmoble]

that would beg the question of why they don't mention that up front.

[DransportGarage]

Fatman's instructions are very good in this area:

"...A general rule for street rods is to use V-6 springs with small block engines and V-8 springs with big blocks. Pickups with the motor further forward generally need V-8 springs with small blocks, and '79-up Mustang V-8 springs with big blocks. For specific recommendations, see your builders guide, or call us.

Most cars need 1/2 to 1 coil cut (with a grinder, not a torch!) but we recommend putting it together stock first, and cut 1/2 coil at a time to maintain proper ride height with the lower control arm about parallel to the ground. If you have to cut more than 1 coil you probably should switch to a lighter spring.

You won't be able to adjust your coil spring height without having ALL the weight on your car. That includes sheet metal, radiator, bumper, body and complete engine. It is impossible to correctly determine the proper springspring rate and length on an incomplete vehicle. Having cement bags or two large friends standing on the crossmember just will not accurately simulate the finished car's load. The spring installation and trim should be the last thing you do before going to the alignment shop - with a complete vehicle.

If we're doing a car that isn't all together, we normally leave the spring out and cut a section of tubing about 2" long to go on the shock shaft, and make it non-compressible. This allows you to approximate the ride height to do your final setup. Hub-to-hub kits include this shock spacer for your convenience.

When you do install the spring and trim it to proper ride height, you'll find it much easier to do if you leave out the shock, unbolt the strut rod from the lower control arm, and leave the lower ball joint just finger tight. This will allow the lower control arm to swing down freely and make the spring easily removed and replaced. On a fully-assembled car you'll find the spring is about right when you can assemble the ball joints to the spindle with only the weight of the car holding it down. Just jack up the lower ball joint. If you have to work too hard to get things together, cut the spring another 1/2 coil."

(Author's note: These instructions -- especially the last sentence -- may or may not apply to non-Fatman installations.)

There also is a 4-part tech article accessible on the Fatman's website:

http://fatmanfab.com/. Just click on "Media", then "Tech", then "Mustang II on Steroids for 55-59 GM Trucks - Part 1".