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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
I have a 1970 4wd that's been having some clutch linkage problems. When I tore it down, I found that the z bar was not all the way up against the block. After looking a little closer, it can't because the z bar is sitting at an angle and can't sit on the ball brackets properly. It seems the engine is too low or the frame is too high...I need to make up about an 1/8 of an inch.
Could it be the motor mounts are worn? It's about 1/8 of an inch that I need to make up. Has anyone had this before? Thanks in advance. Posted via Mobile Device |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 474
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Pictures may help get more reply's.
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Brad handshoe |
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#3 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Godley, TX
Posts: 17,963
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
it should not be flush with the block as you mention - a ball stud screws into the block and the z-bar simply slides over that - and it should not be touching the block at all, even when seated all the way on the ball.
as for the angle - sounds like you are describing it as leaning away frrom horizontal from left to right or vice versa (pictures would help). Unless it's leaning so far that it is casuing misalignment of the linkage (either the rod that connects throught the firewall or the rod that actuates the clutch fork) then it should be just fine. 1/8" out of horizontal does not sound like a sufficient amount to cause a problem. So, better yet, recommend you describe what you mean by "some clutch linkage problems." Is it binding, if so, where? Doesn't feel right, etc... Hopefully we can help. |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Photos are on the way.
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Here are some photos of the z bar. The first one is where the z bar is on the ball shaft. It seems that it should slide all the way up and over the wide part of the shaft that is up against the block (left arrow in 2nd photo). It slides over perfectly with no play if I don't have the bracket on the frame (see photo # 3, the z bar is flat when the bracket is not on the frame). The arrow is pointing to the spot it actually sits on when the frame bracket is installed(arrow on the right in the 2nd pic). Since it does, the z bar sits like this / (not this bad) and the top of the z bar rests on the shaft. The 3rd photo shows how it is straight across but without the bracket. It's sitting on the frame.
The story on it was that the truck was sitting for almost 10 years (I had it for 2 years before I parked it). The clutch was replaced before it was parked. When I got it going a few months ago, the clutch went to the floor before it engaged and it was still hard to shift so it probably wasn't engaged all the way...it felt funny on its way down though (not spongy, but more like it was hung up on something and flexing). After reading posts on this forum, I took it to a guy locally because I thought it might have the wrong sized throw out bearing in it. He said he thought it was the linkage. I drove it like this, then one day pulled the clutch back from the firewall and WA-LA! It shifted the way it should. That lasted for two weeks and then went back to the way it was before, only worse. So I tore down the linkage. Some of the parts are worn so I will replace those as I go, but that isn't the main problem. Sorry this is so long, but wanted to give all the details. |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Mustang, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,806
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Maybe a 2wd/4wd thing but my Z bar and stud doesn't look like that (1967 formerly 283 3ott 2wd). Yours (ball stud) looks too long compared to my original one, check the pic maybe it will help? My truck has a Bracket riveted to the frame to support the outboard end of the Zbar which I dont see in the pics you posted. Maybe someone "customized" it at some point??
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Dan <---(my name) 67 SWB C10 project "GEORGIA"-59 Brookwood 2dr wag...Next project-03 Tahoe 4x4 5.3 family ride-07 Hondur Accord, commuter car |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
I never had a bracket on the engine side since I've had it. I replaced the original (i think) ball shaft with one I bought from LMC (pg 124 of their online catalog). That's what's in the pics. I thought that would help fix the problem, but it's all the same.
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#8 |
What?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 7,617
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
There is a thick felt washer that goes on the stud first, then the Z bar with grease inside slips onto the stud and the felt washer keeps the grease from making to much of a mess.
I can't see the frame mount, Did it get removed? The ball stud on that end is tightened to snug up very close to the frame bracket. There is a special washer that is keyed and shaped like an L that goes on before the nut. This washer keeps the Z bar from sliding forward, and making the Z bar getting out of alignment. Have you taken the engine ball stud off and made sure it isn't bent? Have you verified that the long actuating rod is the correct one (length wise). This picture is of a 2wd set up, I am just including it for the frame side pointing out the L shaped lock washer and the mount which is usually riveted to the frame. The OEM ones are flimsy, and I had one made out of thicker steel.
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Chris 1968 K20 Suburban 1972 K10 LWB PU Last edited by vectorit; 05-25-2012 at 01:32 AM. |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
I do not have an "L" shaped bracket. It didn't have one before and didn't see it in the drawing like your diagram has. This may be one of my problems. On the engine side, the engine ball stud is brand new. I just replaced it, the one in the pictures is the new one. I do have the thick felt piece that goes between the z bar and the bracket. You can't see the frame bracket in the picture because I took it out to take the photo.
Thanks to all that have responded. Taking all into consideration. Still listening to any suggestions. Posted via Mobile Device |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
After reading Vectorit's response again, I'm wondering if I should have a felt washer between the engine and the ball stud. Also wondering if the actuating rod is the one from the clutch pedal to the z bar. If that's what it is, then I believe it's the stock rod. It does have a slight bend in it, but not enough to be the main problem.
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#11 |
Still plays with trucks
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 3,556
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
It could be the clutch fork is damaged. My 78 K20 had similar problems and it ended up being a cracked clutch fork end that let the throwout bearing slip out of position sometimes.
You might be able to see inside the bell housing and get a look at the offending parts if you slide the clutch fork grommet out of the way.
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miSSed opportunity - ground up creation of an AWD 1994 454 SS that never was http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=795577 69 C10 shortbed stepside 400 small block - built like what a super sport truck could have been 69 K20 lwb TBI 350 4L60E NP208 14-bolt Dana-44 w/disc 68 Camaro SS / RS 500hp 439 inch roller cam big block 4L80E 79 Malibu TPI 350 4L60 w/ Z28 steering & sway bars |
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#12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 474
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Quote:
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Brad handshoe |
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#13 |
Account Suspended
![]() Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southern UT
Posts: 906
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
If it seems the engine is sitting too low, what condition are your engine and tranny mounts in? Most of these old rubbers get old and oil soaked. On my BBC the z bar does not sit perfectly parallel, but does not cause binding.
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Thanks Everyone for the replies. I'm going to go to a chevy truck parts place and see how it mounts on other trucks. If anyone has pictures of their z bar, I'm looking for the area at the engine block. Also looking for pictures where it bolts into the frame bracket. I'd like to make sure I'm putting it back together right. The bracket has an "L" shape to it, so I'm assuming the bolt goes all the way to the right...seems to fit right in where the bolt is flat. It also sounds like I might be missing a piece that holds it in place there. Thanks again for the replies.
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#15 |
What?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 7,617
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
I looked at my '70 K10, and it doesn't sit flush either. Nor does the one in my '68 K20.
I just went through a huge mess with my linkage, where it broke and I found the engine ball stud was bent. So the '70 clutch isn't adjusted yet to where I like it, but it works smoothly and functions as it should while engaging and disengaging the clutch. Here are pics of the linkage in my '70 K10.
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Chris 1968 K20 Suburban 1972 K10 LWB PU |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor Cal, CA
Posts: 17
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
Thanks vectorit!
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#17 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Lebanon, Oregon
Posts: 130
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
So, from the drawing and pictures, it appears there is no angled bend in the round tube between the 90° ears on each end.
I haven't taken any pictures of my Z-bar yet, but I noticed that it was slightly curved. John
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Eugene, Oregon Lucy's Limousine 1966 C-10 LWB 283 w/ 2bbl, OE carb and dist. 4 spd (granny 1st) w/ 3.73 rear end |
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#18 |
I am a Referee of life.
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Greensboro N.C.
Posts: 13,993
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Re: Z bar is not sitting flush! Anyone know why?
The 1/8 out of alignment shouldn't be an issue.The rubber in the motor mounts will let it move that much.I think you have the frame mount end problem and/or a problem with the clutch fork.Watch out for which way you put the cotter pin into the linkages.I had a engine side ball stud break once and the sharp tip of the cotter pin went thru the oil filter and made a pin hole.Too bad the guages on that truck hadn't been fixed yet.
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