Starting problems...need some guidance

[Mr-Jack]

So here's my dilema...I finally got the truck to stop smoking and running good when i can get it turned over...the problem is that it takes a bit to start. The dizzy is in good shape. Cap and rotor are fine. Has a hypertech dizzy, new wires, and 3 week old plugs that are in good shape...it just seems like the starter isn't wanting to turn the fly wheel or something. Like it gets the voltage hard and then wines a bit and flips over the hump, and once it does, it slowly turns and then fights to crank over. I did notice the other day that after a minute of trying to get her started, i checked the positive battery post and wire, and both were warm to the touch. The cable is around a a 0/1 gauge wire and the connections don't have any corrosion on them. I haven't done a drop voltage check, but kind of wondering where to start (no pun intended) with my trouble shooting. I did notice that the negative cable is a tad smaller than the positive which I blieve is a no-no, but not by much. Can y'all point me in the right direction?

Thank.

jack

[Gumby]

If the timing is right, and the cables and battery are good, starter time probably.

also sound like timing, it will be hard to start like that.

[Mr-Jack]

battery was new as of last summer, and it hasn't been connected other than when i was starting or running the truck recently. the battery box has a wood bottom in the truck also, and the charge on the battery is still good. i've never took a starter and solenoid in to get them checked, but can't the local parts stores check to see if they are still good?

I grenaded my timing light one day so i have adjusted by ear (i know i know...get a timing light and do it right) but can this be heavily contributing to my problem that much?

Also...just so i'm solid on my technique...to get the #1 at TDC...spin the crank til the air blows my finger off the #1 spark plug hole. then use a wooden dowel to get the piston to the top of the compression stroke and I'm there right. Then check the balancer to make sure that it's at 0* ???

[fleetsidelarry]

Originally Posted by Mr-Jack

...but can this be heavily contributing to my problem that much?

Also...just so i'm solid on my technique...to get the #1 at TDC...spin the crank til the air blows my finger off the #1 spark plug hole. then use a wooden dowel to get the piston to the top of the compression stroke and I'm there right. Then check the balancer to make sure that it's at 0* ???

yes and no.

yes it can be the problem and no, that's not accurate enough to determine if the balancer is on the money. you need a piston stop to do it "right"

my 2¢ suggestion is (yes) to get a new timing light (anyone who ever works on a motor needs one) and assume for now that the balancer is OK.

[68gmsee]

Originally Posted by Mr-Jack

.........Also...just so i'm solid on my technique...to get the #1 at TDC...spin the crank til the air blows my finger off the #1 spark plug hole. then use a wooden dowel to get the piston to the top of the compression stroke and I'm there right. Then check the balancer to make sure that it's at 0* ???

Yes, that technique gets you to TDC and should allow the engine to start. If you have an HEI most are setting it at between 8-12 btdc. Local Auto Zones will loan out tools. You just have to leave a giant deposit but you get it back when you return it. Maybe you can borrow one from a buddy.

Couple of things. Battery cables get corroded internally inside the end battery connection. Unless you peel back the insulation, you can't see it. Also, taking the starter in for testing only checks the electrical connections and makes sure it runs. The true test is when it's on the engine with a load. I had one test good and it led me astray. After replacing the cables, battery and checking the timing, I finally got a complete starter for around $50 and no more problems with hard starting.

Usually what happens in an old starter is the bushings on the front and rear wear enough to allow the rotor to touch the windings and cause a drag. Sometimes it will stick in one spot and you have to click it or whack it with a hammer to nudge it to start.

[truckdude239]

sounds like the timings off

[Mr-Jack]

I had a starter like this on my rock crawler...always carried a spare with me on the trail...but that's probably cause i've had to use the starter to get out of a scrape a couple of times.

Also, something a little odd on my truck. I don't know if this makes much of a differance...so it's a manual tranny, but i can start the truck while it's in neutral sometimes without engaging the clutch...i am not sure if this was due to the clutch linkage being so loose the other day. (i got down the road, and then the clutch got stuck in neutral and had to drive it in reverse to the house to disengage the clutch cause the home-brew cable was flopping around and not hooked up right...i've since fixed this and it is nice and tight.) haven't tried starting it without the clutch since. seemed like even when i could start it without the clutch before, that it turned over pretty easy at first.

hopefully i haven't confused anyone. I'll pull the starter and take it to the parts store after i get my horses shaw'd

[GASoline71]

If timing is too far advanced. It will make it harder to start. It will crank hard... Back the timing off a tad, and see if that helps.

Back in the day, a lot of old tuners without timing lights would advance the timing far enough to make the starter labor to start, then back it off a couple degrees and call it good.

Gary

[Mr-Jack]

Just pulled the starter and couldn't see this from it being installed, but the cap on the solenoid is cracked and the post is just free spinning and wobling around in there. Just went to the store and picked up a new solenoid...they wouldn't test the starter with tye cracked one on there, so I'll see if this helps. Also the nuts on the back side had some light surface corrosion. So I guess the new solenoid wasn't a bad idea anyways

Jack
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[Mr-Jack]

may sound like a dumb question, but does it matter if the gear is all the way out when i put the new starter in? also...the solenoid that i bought at the parts store is a bit longer than the one that was on there. does this make a differance?

Thanks,

Jack

[Mr-Jack]

got it figured out...did some swap tronicks with the solenoid parts, fixed the cap crack with some 2 part apoxy and clamps (temp fix til i get my new ministarter) upgraded to new 2/0 gauge welding cable for the positive and negative cables and quick disconnect posts for the battery. things turning over like a dream now. Here are a few pictures

Crack

Temp fix (that worked great...clamps don't need to stay on but i didn't want to chance it)

New cables and q/d's



Starter in (i think it looks great with the big cables

[68gmsee]

Good going! Only thing to watch is the end connections on the pos cable. There's a lot of amperage going through there and eventually the non sealed ends will find moisture and corrode. Just for grins, if you have the old cable peel back the insulation at the battery end and see how it looks.

If everything is working as it should you should be able to use normal battery cables that have been sealed properly.

[Mr-Jack]

I upgraded cause I wanna run dual batteries, a compressor and a welded eventually...I use contact sealant spray on the ends which coats the terminal...I may get some hd heat shrink for it too.
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