Camaro front clip questions

[59stepside]

I have been reading through all the past clip threads and instead of hijacking a random thread I just have a couple questions. I want to put this front end in my 59 and have a static lowered stance while I save up to buy the airbags. I may have to cut a coil or lowered spindles but don have the extra $$ for spindles

I am going to do the install with the back of the clip level under the truck frame. What is the average ride height at the rocker panel with stock camaro parts?

If you install bags, what size rims can you run and still lay it all the way on the ground?

I'm looking to have 22" rims with average sidewalls. Overall diameter around 28-30"

What bags or kit did you guys use with the camaro front end that worked out the best.

[59stepside]

Got this pic from Indian113 post a while back. This is my plan so far.

[mr48chev]

Got a buddy or know where to find one of those Camaros with stock suspension? slide under it and measure the ground to crossmember distance and write it down along with the diameter of the tires on the front of the car and go from there.

When my students and I subframed my 51 Merc with a Nova Subframe one of my students at the time drove his Nova in the shop and we measured his crossmeber's distance from the floor and set the Merc up to match. That crossmember was 6-1/2 inches from the shop floor and we found a big wood block 6-1/2 inches thick and set it on it and leveled the back legs of the subframe, Then set the Merc at the ride height we wanted it at and mated the two frames together. The end product came out right on the money.

The photo that 59Stepside posted in post #2 should be required viewing for anyone contemplating a subframe swap on one of those trucks. note that the back legs of the subframe are EXACTLY parallel with the trucks frame setting the paired frames up as one factory designed chassis.
Some self styled "experts" will say to build in compensation for a rake in the frame if you plan to run a serious rake but that is totally wrong info and you end up with a mess that will not work right in the long run. You end up with a truck that looks bent in the middle with serious issues getting the already hard to fit sheet metal to fit.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[59stepside]

Thanks for the reply. I don't want any rake. I want this to sit level. The first pic of the subframe post #1 is my subframe that I just yanked yesterday. And the second picture of the subframe installed post #2 is what I plan on doing. Using that method there is no choice on where the sub frame sits in relation to the truck frame because I'm choosing to mate them up exactly parallel for ease of install.

I'm wondering if anyone on here has done it this way and left the clip suspension stock. If so what is your ride height? On the truck body rockers.

If you used bags, what brand, size, or kit? And could you fit 22" rims and lay rockers on the ground. And still able to get enough ride height out of it after aired up 75%.

[59stepside]

I have been thinking about doing it this way too but It looks like it will take some extra time and it's not quite the tried and true way that I posted in post #2

[mr48chev]

That's one my buddy did (my photo) . it sets the truck a bit lower than the one that Indian113 originally posted of the silver frame. The guy he was building that frame for wanted a very low truck and with the Trans Am frame set that low it is going to be right at the scrub line and maybe below.
I'm thinking that Jim trims the subframe so that the frame rails slip right into it as you can see on the inside of the rail view on the other side. He has done about 25 of those over the years for guys around the PNW and they seem to work pretty well.

Between that one and the silver one above it shows a good example of how guys adjust the static ride height by where they do the final attachment of the frame to the subframe. The Silver frame looks like it might be set up a bit more comfortable for daily driving on just about any road. The rockers are going to end up right about the same height as the rockers on a 79 Camaro but look low for a Task Force truck but not be so low you are going to go nuts going in and out driveways or down rough driveways like mine.

When I replied earlier I didn't realize that it was your post in post 2 rather than someone else's reply. I must have been more fuzzy headed than I thought this morning.

[Cobra427sc]

Originally Posted by 59stepside

I have been reading through all the past clip threads and instead of hijacking a random thread I just have a couple questions. I want to put this front end in my 59 and have a static lowered stance while I save up to buy the airbags. I may have to cut a coil or lowered spindles but don have the extra $$ for spindles

I am going to do the install with the back of the clip level under the truck frame. What is the average ride height at the rocker panel with stock camaro parts?

If you install bags, what size rims can you run and still lay it all the way on the ground?

I'm looking to have 22" rims with average sidewalls. Overall diameter around 28-30"

What bags or kit did you guys use with the camaro front end that worked out the best.

Hey 59stepside! This may help you as I just went threw it!
http://www.trifive.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114398
Later Buddy and Good Luck with your build!!
Cobra427sc

[59stepside]

Mr48Chev, thanks for your information! Can I get some clarification on scrub line...as far as I know, it refers to the point which the frame/engine/or trans would touch the ground if you set the truck on its rims without tires. Always keep everything above the scrub line, Like if you get a flat tire, it's not going to tear out your oil pan or drag frame. Is that correct?

Cobra427sc, thanks for the post, I began to start reading through it, but looks like I will need to sign up to see the picture attachments. Looks like it will be of great help!

To all, I have a 110 welder that's rated to weld the thickness of metal, I have always used flux core wire with it, and we all know that it doesn't look as good but strength is the same. Do you guys think I should fork out the extra $$ for an argon bottle to weld this up? I guess my friend has a harbor freight stick welder I can use, but haven't touched a stick welder for a couple years. What you all think?

[Cobra427sc]

[quote=59stepside

[Cobra427sc]

Originally Posted by 59stepside

Mr48Chev, thanks for your information! Can I get some clarification on scrub line...as far as I know, it refers to the point which the frame/engine/or trans would touch the ground if you set the truck on its rims without tires. Always keep everything above the scrub line, Like if you get a flat tire, it's not going to tear out your oil pan or drag frame. Is that correct?

Cobra427sc, thanks for the post, I began to start reading through it, but looks like I will need to sign up to see the picture attachments. Looks like it will be of great help!

To all, I have a 110 welder that's rated to weld the thickness of metal, I have always used flux core wire with it, and we all know that it doesn't look as good but strength is the same. Do you guys think I should fork out the extra $$ for an argon bottle to weld this up? I guess my friend has a harbor freight stick welder I can use, but haven't touched a stick welder for a couple years. What you all think?

No Problem 59stepside! I have a lot of pictures and info on what I did.! Everyone on this site is here to help with knowledge and safety issues when It comes to any build.

Like Indian113 said and I have been told by my welder, as I too have a flux core welder. If you are doing any frame welding use a 220 volt mig welder with an argon bottle. As penetration is the key here for safety issues and one thing you just can't skimp on when it comes to the safety of people in your truck or others on the road. Go with the motto...Better be safe then sorry!!!

[Speedbumpauto]

IMO,argon is overkill. The results are as good using C-20 or 25 and it's somewhat cheaper. The argon mix is a little hotter than CO2 but substantially more expensive. I think you can do your job with the flux core wire. If you look at your metal thickness/temperature setting chart on your welder, the flux core goes up to or close to 1/4 inch. Is it optimum?, no, but if you have some welding experience, V your joints properly and keep the metal clean, you will get decent penetration. I've done 4x4's using just what I said and they're still working today, but then I had what I had. You should save for the bottle set up as, IMO, it really shines when you're doing thinner metal like on the body.

[Indian113]

I wouldn't weld frame's with a 110 flux core welder. If you can rent a 220 with gas it would be better. I would be wary of penetration of some 110's, the Hobart 140 handler might be a good welder for what your doing.

[rawraw67]

im trying to link what I did.if you do a search on the 67-72 web you should find me search-57 Chevy Truck Camaro Chip install

[rawraw67]

cant seem to do the link

[Cobra427sc]

Originally Posted by rawraw67

cant seem to do the link

Hey rawraw67! Is this the one your looking for??? I don't charge much!! HAHAHAHAHA!!

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414564

Nice Job and nice work!!!

[rawraw67]

ya that's it. how did you do that? that was my frist one I did, I have done it both ways.

[Cobra427sc]

Originally Posted by rawraw67

ya that's it. how did you do that? that was my frist one I did, I have done it both ways.

I just clicked on your name on the left and looked for your posts...found the one you were looking for and checked it out...then high lighted it at the top that reference file name and copied it.
That's it.

[59stepside]

Thanks for all the a advice guys! I am experienced with welding, and I'm sure I can make the 110v welder but I am going to price out a 220 mig rental.

Rawraw67, that looks pretty clean. I dig it. I like the fact you got some good help there!

I really appreciate the help, and keep it coming!

[Cobra427sc]

Here 59stepside is some of the pictures of the site I put a Link before....and the only reason that is. Is that all the pictures are there, and just to many to do it again.
With this setup I have 1 rotation link cut from the front coils. Not sure if I will stay with this. One of the coils was broken so I leveled them both off equal for the build.
Later.

[ZR2RICK]

hi, I have the same build going on and thought i'd share my thoughts, these front steer clips are too wide if you plan to drive it very low at all, most that we see severely lowered w/this clip are bagged and have to be raised to have any turning capability, i have 18" front rims with 3.5" of backspacing and there is 1/2" of space from sidewall to outer fender, i have Slam Specialties SS-7" bags up front. i am in the process of narrowing my A arms 1" each and the cross member 2" so it can be driven aired out, I will be posting my process of narrowing when i finish. With your plans of running 20" rims you will most certainly require maximum backspacing and careful measurement of the room available. The member named Delmo that has several builds on here uses his own 20" or larger diameter wheels in his builds using Porterbuilt cross members(which are narrower (HOW MUCH?),but I have not been able to determine his exact wheel/tire specs , Or what his turning clearances are ?Maybe we can get his input here??

[59stepside]

Cobra, when I get a few extra min, I will register with that other forum to browse all the pics because the ones you posted are really good. Thanks for sharing! Looking forward to seeing them all.

ZR2Rick, that looks pretty nice. I'm not to sure what narrowing that is going to take but will be watching for it he progress. Those 18" do look pretty good on there.
.........Same in the back? 18's??

[buggy5872]

Here is mine with all stock suspension. No rubbing issues. They are good if you do not go crazy lowering them. I welded mine to the bottom of the frame.

[Cobra427sc]

Originally Posted by buggy5872

Here is mine with all stock suspension. No rubbing issues. They are good if you do not go crazy lowering them. I welded mine to the bottom of the frame.

Hey buggy5872!! Did you go with 15 X 7" and 3 1/2" back spacing on the front and 15 X 8" with 4 1/2" back spacing on the rear???

What size tires did you go with?? The back wheels on your ride look wide!!
Did you tube the box a bit?
Very Sweet Cameo!!! Nice work Man!!

[buggy5872]

Originally Posted by Cobra427sc

Hey buggy5872!! Did you go with 15 X 7" and 3 1/2" back spacing on the front and 15 X 8" with 4 1/2" back spacing on the rear???

What size tires did you go with?? The back wheels on your ride look wide!!
Did you tube the box a bit?
Very Sweet Cameo!!! Nice work Man!!

Front wheels are 15x7 with 4" back spacing. 215/70-15 tires on the front. Rear is 15x12 with 4" back spacing. 29x15.5-15 tires. Rear is a custom 4 link I made.

[buggy5872]

ZR2RICK,
When you narrowed the subfrane, did you check the clearance for the motor? I was thinking there was not 2" of extra room between the frame rails. What exhaust are you going to run?
Shane