Looking for help on Camaro clip install

[dragoncrx]

I am located in Vacaville CA and have hit a snag on installing a 74 firebird front clip and looking for someone to come give me some pointers. When it measures out square it looks like the rails going back are not centered under the truck frame. Thanks dan

[Speedbumpauto]

I didn't do mine that way but the horns will overhang to the outside of the truck rails, if that's what you mean by centered. It should hang out to the outside the same amount on both sides though, when square....at least mine did.

[butchp]

Drop a line from holes for top shock mt. plum bob to center line of wheel base line hole from both holes to center line.

[tmoble]

here's mine, the 57 frame and the 79 T/A sub are almost the same width on the inside, but the Camaro/Firebird is wider outside to outside. just center it so the overhang is the same on both sides.

[tmoble]

and here's how it looks from the side:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...4&d=1325553880

[Indian113]

This is how we did a friend of mines

[Valarius_Starchaser]

I did a 74 Nova just last weekend and I found the same problem I discovered that unless you get under it its hard to tell that the passenger side gets thinner and turns to the right side of the vehicle. its hard to see in the photo but you can see a little bump toward the back that threw me off if memory serves they should be the same

[OrrieG]

Google HAMB camaro clip, good how to video over there

[59weasel]

Indian113 and 55metalmonkey gave me a lot of help on my install. I pretty much went the route that Indian113 did for his buddy in the silver frame picture. the frame rails set just a little outside the truck rails. ohh, and I also boxed mine where the 2 frames are setting on each other... at the time it was rolling with 454 inches of chevy glory! but since then it's now a 5.3L (about 200-250 lbs. lighter and 50+ more H.P. stock)!!

and I can't stress enough!!!... TAKE A MILLION MEASUREMENTS!! AND GO SLOW!! take a little off then give it a test fit. ETC.ETC. it took 3 of us and a couple tape measures about 4-5 hrs. to get it to within 3/16" from corner to corner from front to back. it's well worth the time to get it as square as possible.

I guess it's like a good paint job... the more prep you do the better the paint job........

[ambryatim]

Ok so I have a question....I installed my clip the "Lux Blue" way.....and I was double checking some measurements and I found out that I am about a 1/16"-1/8" off from passenger to drivers side.....So, I am wondering if this will be a problem and I need to cut and redo or will it be ok?

Originally Posted by 59weasel

Indian113 and 55metalmonkey gave me a lot of help on my install. I pretty much went the route that Indian113 did for his buddy in the silver frame picture. the frame rails set just a little outside the truck rails. ohh, and I also boxed mine where the 2 frames are setting on each other... at the time it was rolling with 454 inches of chevy glory! but since then it's now a 5.3L (about 200-250 lbs. lighter and 50+ more H.P. stock)!!

and I can't stress enough!!!... TAKE A MILLION MEASUREMENTS!! AND GO SLOW!! take a little off then give it a test fit. ETC.ETC. it took 3 of us and a couple tape measures about 4-5 hrs. to get it to within 3/16" from corner to corner from front to back. it's well worth the time to get it as square as possible.

I guess it's like a good paint job... the more prep you do the better the paint job........

[mr48chev]

A few snapshots of how one of my friends does them. This on a 56 frame.









From my personal experience doing subframes The first thing is to work off the center line of both the original frame and the subframe for centering as the outside dimensions may not match side to side or be symmetrical.

The second and possibly more important is that you want the plane of both pieces to match so they end up as a unit that matches front to back. In this I mean that you have to set the subframe up level as if it were still in the donor rig sitting level and you have to have the frame of the truck you are putting it on sitting level on the same plane

You can adjust up/down for ride height but you have to keep the frame rail of the truck parallel with the plane of the subframe. Do not under any circumstance fall into the (I want to build a rake into the frame) or you end up with a junk frame when you are done.

[1-ton of fun]

Cross measure diagonally both ways to make sure it is square
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[OrrieG]

Also don't cut the front horns until you have the bumper bracket and core support figured out, easy to trim hard to add back...

[mr48chev]

Good point there Orrie. I've seen more than one that had the ends of the frame cut off too short.

[Valarius_Starchaser]

I personally wouldn't run it that way that's 1/16"-1/8" tracking and a toe angle that you can't correct I can't imagine fighting the car to stay straight would be enjoyable

[slck57]

Here's how we did mine.

[pugs]

1/16-1/8th is minor, you would be surprised how much new cars are even out of square.

[dsraven]

this is just my thought of how I would approach it.
clean the frame first. get all the old grease and dirt off before you start so you can work without wasting time putting out fires or cleaning up rocks and dirt that has fallen off or smeared your markings. check the rear suspension for wear. movement here affects your measurements.
to start with make sure the truck frame is square and straight.
-get it up on some sturdy blocks in such a way so you can remove the front assembly later without disturbing you leveling blocks or making a see saw out of the frame when the weight is removed or added.
-level the frame to your desired rake angle fore to aft and then level from side to side. a digital level works well for this. they are actually cheaper than one might think and give measurements in 1/10 of degree. more acurrate than a bubble level. the front end alignment guys will be using accurate tools so it may be worth the expense. some have lasers built in that come in handy as well. personal preference.
-measure the frame cross members and mark a line in the center (side to side) of each one. a piece of tape on the cross member works well because the marker pen will show up well against the bright back ground.
-run a string line or laser line from front to back down that centre line you just marked and see if it all lines up. this will also be a tell to see if the frame has any sag in it. repair accordingly after doing the next step.
-measure diagonally from one front corner to the opposite rear corner. do this for both sides to see if the frame is square. I think 1/8" is allowed by the manual. there is a diagram in the factory manual that shows the original measuring points at various points along the frame and measuring in diagonal X patterns in various locations. I think the points relate to the rivets in the frame for the cross members. repair accordingly along with the above issue. one may affect the other.
-once the frame is level and square drop a plumb bob from the axle center lines to the floor and make some marks for reference later. it may be a good idea to record your wheelbase etc for reference later.
-decide where your new front axle center line will be if you are changing it to accommodate a dropped truck. some guys move the axle forward when lowering to make the tire look proper in the opening of a fender like the 55-59 trucks have. the rear of the wheel opening is sloped at the rear more than the front so when the wheel is brought up into the opening it makes the wheel look like it is actually stuffed into the rear of the opening. personal preference.
-you should find the specs for the donor clip. find out if the lower control arms should be level on their pivot axis (so a level from front to back on the bottom side of the control arm would be level) so you can level the clip, fore to aft, once you have it set in place. it may be a good idea to scribe/mark a line on the frame of the new clip that shows where level is. it may be a quicker method than always crawling under to check level on the control arms. don't forget to level side to side. it is always good to start with a nice clean work piece so some time spent cleaning the new clip may be in order. also a good time to check for any issues that may not have shown up, like cracks or worn out parts. it may be a good idea to brace the clip across the frame rails so it doesn't get bent somehow when fitting or welding.
-decide where the original frame will be cut off for best fitment of the new clip. brace up the original frame behind that so the frame doesn't "spring" when you cut off the front section. cut off the old front end and get the area ground straight and smooth. clean the area well so the metal will be ready for welding. dirty steel equals poor weld. do inside and outside of the frame rails.
-clean the area where there will be welding on the new clip and then mate up the new clip and block it level according to your previous specs. do the centerline check here as well, from front to rear, to ensure everything is still good that way. check level fore to aft and side to side. extra time here will pay dividends later. when you think you have it all good drop a plumb bob down from the axle centers and mark the floor again. do a corner to corner measurement to ensure the new axle center lines are going to be square to the frame. check your wheel base to make sure it is correct for what you want.
-tack weld. re measure. re level, re plumb bob, re measure.
-if all is good make more tacks and recheck. if all is still good you can start welding. do smaller welds, a couple inches at a time in different locations/sides so the frame doesn't get too hot and warp. allow to cool. an air hose blower works well.
-box the frame after for added strength.

like I said, just my view. not gospel. lots of guys on here probably know waaaay more than I would. I may be totally out to lunch.

[joeydirt]

potential cost savings and brand loyalty aside are there any advantages to a camera clip vs M2?

[Iceburgh]

Originally Posted by joeydirt

potential cost savings and brand loyalty aside are there any advantages to a camera clip vs M2?

I have both...if done correctly you will have better stability with the Camaro. The M2 IMO does not track wide enough for these trucks.

[Indian113]

If you have to completely rebuild the clip it might be cheaper to go Mustang IFS. I'm saving a Camaro Clip for a 59 I've got my eye on. In my life I have never done anything to save money on so why should I start at 67 to worry about it?

[1-ton of fun]

i prefer the way the upper control arms connect to the frame on the gm clip. less likely for a large bump affect the alignment. in the m2, there are bolts that bolt through slots, vs the camaro/nova using towers with studs that use shims to adjust the alignment.

also, likely more subjective, as i have no engineering info to support this claim, but the gm sub seems heavier duty than a M2.

my '59 has a nova sub, and while i believe it was worth it, i would recommend to my son an M2 if he decides he wants to convert from a straight axle to ifs on his '55.2 due to ease of CLEAN installation.