Feeling in over my head and not sure what to do next

[dmjlambert]

Here's the background story on my truck and me, so you can have the context for a couple questions.

I told a friend I wanted an old truck to work on and bring back to life. He had a friend that wanted his 69 CST/10 hauled off. After having a look at it with another friend, we decided it looked like very little had been done to it, and it was just parked outside since 1985. It looks like the truck is mostly original, and the exhaust was re-done with glass packs and somebody lost the carburetor spacer. I am not an experienced auto mechanic, but I know about mechanical and electrical things, and I'm pretty good at removing and replacing parts such as starters, alternators, fuel pumps, etc. I am weak at diagnostics.

My friend has worked on old cars and trucks many times and he gets the engines rebuilt by a machine shop he knows about in Edgewood, TX. So I got his help and we pulled the engine and sent it there. Meanwhile I ordered and installed a new gas tank, and had the radiator cleaned and tested, fixed up the brakes and wheels/tires. We sent it to the machine shop with an electronic distrubutor my friend had from a later model truck. The engine came back and was beautiful and we put it back in, then took it back to the machine shop for an exhaust system and for help figuring out how some of the brackets, wires, and hoses go.

The mechanic at the machine shop tinkered with the carburetor numerous times and seemed to have great confidence that it would work if he took it apart and worked on it enough times. He kept the truck for a few weeks and drove it back and forth to his house, and tinkered with the carburetor a few times, before giving me the truck back.

I have a lot of work to do on it to make it inspection ready, such as lights, horns, switches, and all sorts of stuff. Meanwhile I make time to go out and start it every day and run it for a while. It is getting harder and harder to start, and it stalls. I can't start it in the morning. It only starts in the late morning or afternoon. When it runs, it runs quite well.

The mechanic, friends, and auto parts store guys recommended putting inline fuel filters in the fuel line in several spots, to make sure the fuel going into the carburetor is very clean. When at the parts store they asked what kind I wanted and they told me they had clear ones and metal ones. I told them the clear ones sounded good and everybody thought that is a great choice, "that's the kind I use", and all sorts of positive feedback. The mechanic installed them when he was doing the finishing touches on the truck. In the past few days I found that was a pretty bad choice, because just the tension from the weight of the fuel hose and the way the fuel hose bends after coming off a spool where it has been stored for months is enough to cause the ends of the fuel filter to buckle and bend and break loose the inside filter element. The filters failed within a couple weeks. To top it off, on closer examination I found the mechanic used hose clearly marked "do not use for fuel." I went to the auto parts store today and got some fuel line hose and a metal fuel filter (WIX 33033), replaced the hoses and put the filter on the last leg of the fuel's journey, at the carburetor. I did this re-work of the fuel lines today hoping to improve the situation. The fuel hose is less flexible than the "do not use for fuel" hose, so now I have kinking happening between the metal fuel line coming from the cab and the fuel pump, so I'm now worried about whether that could cause some stalling.

Early on in the project I asked my friend who helped me pull and re-install the engine what I should expect regarding the carburetor, and he said I could use the carburetor I had "if it took a rebuild kit, because some carburetors rebuild OK, and some just don't." After talking to the mechanic at the machine shop, who put a carburetor kit in it, and took it apart and put it back together several times, I get the feeling he never under any circumstances would declare a carburetor unworkable and he never throws anything out and starts fresh. I asked him to tell me if it was time to get a new carburetor, and he said no, that mine just needed some more work.

So, now I have this truck home and it is many miles from the machine shop mechanic and I have nobody to bail me out of a situation where the engine is finicky and I don't know what to do. My question is, is there a point at which time of death probably should have been called on my carburetor? How likely are fuel line problems to be most of my problem? I'm feeling in over my head a little here. My goal is to use the truck as a daily driver, and I don't need any super horsepower or fancy upgrades, or to make a hot rod out of it. Not sure what I should do next. I continue working on the wiring for lights and other inspection items.

[WorkinLonghorn]

Personally, I would forget any "mechanic" that used the wrong hose for a fuel line. Also I would forget any mechanic that couldn't easily rebuild a Quadrajet, the first time (I hope he isn't charging you for all his fiddling around).
You didn't say what engine and carb you do have. A quadrajet has a little fuel filter just inside that you need to check.
Does the choke work on the carb?

That kinking in the hose needs to be sorted out. Sounds like the metal fuel line is bent and needs to be unbent.

Please fill in the blanks so that someone can give better advice. -WL

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by WorkinLonghorn

Personally, I would forget any "mechanic" that used the wrong hose for a fuel line. Also I would forget any mechanic that couldn't easily rebuild a Quadrajet, the first time (I hope he isn't charging you for all his fiddling around).
You didn't say what engine and carb you do have. A quadrajet has a little fuel filter just inside that you need to check.
Does the choke work on the carb?

That kinking in the hose needs to be sorted out. Sounds like the metal fuel line is bent and needs to be unbent.

Please fill in the blanks so that someone can give better advice. -WL

I have a 350 cu engine and 4bbl carburetor, but I don't know if it is called a Quadrajet. I am attaching a picture. At the fuel intake nozzle it has a filter housing built-in, and I was advised it best to use an external in-line filter instead of putting a filter in the built-in housing because it is easy to mess up the threads of the built-in filter holder. It supposedly does not have a filter in the built-in holder. I did notice the housing and nozzle are pretty easy to wiggle, perhaps not made of a hard metal. I don't understand the choke enough to be able to tell you if it is working. No, he didn't charge for any additional fiddling around, and the engine rebuild and other work was inexpensive.

The metal fuel lines are all intact and in good shape and don't appear to be bent. Hose is only used to attach the metal fuel line that comes from the tank to connect to the metal fuel line that goes to the engine compartment, and at the frame under the A/C compressor it is shaped like a U so it points back toward the fuel pump. Short hose goes to the fuel pump. A metal tube goes from the fuel pump to within a few inches of the carburetor, and then a short hose to the carburetor through the in-line filter I was talking about.

The kink I am concerned about the most is because the fuel pump nozzle points straight forward, and the metal fuel line from the cab points straight back after the U-bend, but they are not in line with each other. The fuel pump is slightly to the left from the driver's seat. It does not look bad. But there is some kink. I will replace that hose with a different length, bend, or re-route to remove the kink.

[un4gvn!]

That looks to be a Quadra jet. It should say on the side what it is. I've used them on a lot of my muscle cars and trucks. They are not hard to work on. My main issues with them is when I gave it gas, there would be a slight hesitation which always indicated a bad accelerator pump. Easy fix. Another problem with the choke was the vacuum choke pull-off. Suck through to make sure the diaphragm doesn't have a hole in it. Are you running a mechanical or electric fuel pump? You mentioned your fuel pump was just off the side of your drivers seat. All older Chevy v8's have the mechanical fuel pump on the passenger side towards the front of the engine. If that is where your fuel pump is, you can purchase a hard line custom bent just like the factory put on them. I used the brass filters that usually came in the carb with never any problems. I would use carb cleaner and reinstall it with no issues. They also make a paper filter for them. If you would want to use a inline filter, mount it before the fuel pump. This would also protect your fuel pump. I also see a vacuum hose about 2 or 3 inch's long with a hose clamp on the end on the front. You can buy the little rubber nubs to plug the vacuum ports you aren't using. They are really cheap and look more professional. You want all your fuel lines and hoses to flow very easily. Any sharp bends or kinks is going to hurt the performance of the engine. If your mechanic bought the proper rebuild kit, that engine should run like new. The biggest problem when people rebuilding these carbs, they get intimidated by all the parts and gaskets in the kit. They cut corners and don't use the proper pieces. Also I've seen when they clean them, they pay more attention to the outside of the carb instead of the inside. The inside is what matters most. Also make sure the float is set right or the carb will not function properly. If your not really sure you want to use the Quad and you are going to buy a new carb, go with a Quickfuel. GREAT carb right out of the box. Easy to work on. I hope I shed some light for you.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by un4gvn!

I hope I shed some light for you.

Yes, thanks very much. I have the mechanical fuel pump, I was just talking about the nozzle is not in line with the fuel line, so the hose has to make an S-bend. The nozzle of the fuel pump is shifted to the left compared to the metal fuel line from the cab (from the driver's perspective). I did not know about the hard line custom bent ones, that sounds like the perfect thing for my situation.

Lots of good info. I don't understand all of it, but I'm going to study and learn.

[CST10]

First I'd get rid of the fuel hoses and make some tubing fuel lines. Less risk of a fire when the rubber hoses start leaking.

Then I'd call Holley or edlebrock and talk to their tech line to find out which carburator would be best for the engine specs. Then buy it new and install it.

I'd then change the plugs, wires and check distributor and verify/adjust the timing to make sure it's all good.

That might solve some of your issues.

[Grumpy old man]

Go to your local cruise spot were many other guys have already been where you are , talk to some of the guys and you may find them very helpful to someone in your position . They may help get it right or will at least recommend who to take it to . Don't hand over the truck and keys to just anyone or you may never see it again .

[midnight rambler]

Hook up with the guys in the c 10 club in dallas,

[WorkinLonghorn]

I don't understand the choke enough to be able to tell you if it is working

The choke is the plate on the top of the carb that should be near closed on a cold morning to create a better vacuum underneath so that more gas is sucked into the intake for easier starting. As the engine warms up, that choke plate will gradually open all the way. If , as you mentioned, it is hard to start in the mornings but easy during the day then this is the first thing to check. It can be adjusted so that it "chokes" more or less air increasing or decreasing the extra gas being provided. -WL

[haycatcher]

Post a better picture of the front driver side corner of your carb. It looks like something funky is up with your accelerator pump rod. (Looks like a wire over it)? The accelerator pump shoots fuel into the carb when you pump the gas pedal. That vacuum line with the hose clamp I assume is for distributor vacuum, I would just get that as one continuous piece of tube if that clamp is securing a union.

As earlier posts have said make sure fuel filter at front of carb is clear. Make sure you have correct wrenches when opening so it doesn't strip the fitting.

You can try putting a couple ounces of fuel directly into carb on your next cold start and see how it responds.

Put a list together of what you need to do and check off as you go. Step away from truck for awhile if you get frustrated or work on another part of the truck and come back later to issues that were getting you frustrated.

Looks like you just need to tidy some stuff up and you should be good.

[Grumpy old man]

Why is your fuel filter / line what looks to 10-12 inches above the carb , give us a better picture of the fuel pump to carb on the right and left (drivers side ) of the carb and linkage .you'll find that many guys in here can help with your problem but need good pictures and more than 1-2 .

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by Grumpy old man

Why is your fuel filter / line what looks to 10-12 inches above the carb , give us a better picture of the fuel pump to carb on the right and left (drivers side ) of the carb and linkage .you'll find that many guys in here can help with your problem but need good pictures and more than 1-2 .

The line makes a small loop to prevent kinking. This is a new in-line filter, and the only filter I currrently have installed. The 3/8" hose from O'Reilly Auto Parts is thick and stiff. If there is better stuff to get, I would like to know what to ask for. More pictures on the way.

Originally Posted by haycatcher

I took a second look and I think the lever is over your accelerator pump fully. So you should be ok there. Was this carb rebuilt? Because looking at the accelerator pump portion coming out of the carb looks old. Typically a rebuilder would replace that pump.

The carb was worked on by the mechanic I mentioned. I asked him about what-all comes with the kit he used and it sounded to me like it was very minimal, just needle and some gaskets.

I will try pouring a couple ounces of fuel in on next cold start, but I think I will see what I can do about that kink in the fuel hose first.

For now, more pictures, starting with the hose between the metal fuel line from cab to the fuel pump.

[dmjlambert]

More picture, including the non-standard for 1969 distributor I was talking about.

[haycatcher]

I took a second look and I think the lever is over your accelerator pump fully. So you should be ok there. Was this carb rebuilt? Because looking at the accelerator pump portion coming out of the carb looks old. Typically a rebuilder would replace that pump.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by un4gvn!

I also see a vacuum hose about 2 or 3 inch's long with a hose clamp on the end on the front. You can buy the little rubber nubs to plug the vacuum ports you aren't using. They are really cheap and look more professional.

I would like to know what each vacuum port is supposed to be used for, and know what size hose to use on each port. Is there an illustrated guide I can buy for that or good place to go on the Internet? I think the hoses may have been hooked up any-which-way with whatever hose may have been laying around. The heat stove was removed from the exhaust manifold during rebuild and the vacuum switch to choose air from the air intake tube or from the hot air pipe is not connected. I'm not sure what is the proper thing to do with that.

[davepl]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

I would like to know what each vacuum port is supposed to be used for, and know what size hose to use on each port. Is there an illustrated guide I can buy for that or good place to go on the Internet? I think the hoses may have been hooked up any-which-way with whatever hose may have been laying around. The heat stove was removed from the exhaust manifold during rebuild and the vacuum switch to choose air from the air intake tube or from the hot air pipe is not connected. I'm not sure what is the proper thing to do with that.

Pretty simple, others can correct me just in case:

Most Q-Jets have a big port on the back at the base for power brakes.
Most Q-Jets have two ports on the front, they are:
- The one ABOVE the baseplate is ported vacuum advance for the distributor
- The one BELOW the baseplate is manifold vacuum (heat stove valve, etc)

Anything on the carb below the throttle plates, or connected to the actual intake manifold (like a brake pipe fitting) are manifold vacuum. Only that ported one above the throttle blades, for the distributor, is in any way "special".

That's about it.

[Gromit]

One thing I notice about the fuel supply setup (and I may be wrong in thinking it is not optimal) but that loop of fuel supply hose is higher than the height of your carburetor and fuel bowl - wouldn't that encourage the fuel level to fall back inside the hose each time you shut off the motor and maybe create a vapor lock?

Autozone sells the vacuum caps in assorted sizes (photo attached)

One unrelated thing I notice from your photos is running the single accelerator return spring risks it suddenly breaking and the accelerator sticking open unexpectedly.. the double springs are just a few bucks - usually on the wall at the big box stores in the "Help" section..

Also maybe someone mentioned this already but that vacuum canister looks suspect - their operation depends on a rubber diaphragm inside and they do get pretty baked by engine heat over the years - it would at least be worth checking if you have a vacuum pump like a Mityvac or similar.

[firedemon]

Originally Posted by Gromit

One thing I notice about the fuel supply setup (and I may be wrong in thinking it is not optimal) but that loop of fuel supply hose is higher than the height of your carburetor and fuel bowl - wouldn't that encourage the fuel level to fall back inside the hose each time you shut off the motor and maybe create a vapor lock?

Autozone sells the vacuum caps in assorted sizes (photo attached)

One unrelated thing I notice from your photos is running the single accelerator return spring risks it suddenly breaking and the accelerator sticking open unexpectedly.. the double springs are just a few bucks - usually on the wall at the big box stores in the "Help" section...

x2 and from the pic yours looks real rusty stretched and bent I have had this happen it isn't fun

[truckster]

Before you start the truck (engine cold) take a look at the carburetor. Move the accelerator linkage all the way back and the choke plate should snap shut. The choke plate is the plate on top of the carburetor at the front. It looks like it's open on all of your pictures. If it is, that would be why you're having a hard time starting the truck. Rather than pouring raw gas in it, give it a shot of starting fluid or even carburetor cleaner and then try to start it immediately (the aerosols evaporate more quickly than gas, so less chance of washing oil off cylinder walls with repeated attempts). I'll bet it fires right up; that indicates your choke is not closing and it needs to be adjusted.

The non-standard distributor you have is a factory GM HEI unit. It's a really good upgrade. Just make sure the timing is set correctly (I like 10-12 degrees initial timing).

[kenn]

Hello and welcome.
Don't try and fix to many things at once just take your time and enjoy your self it's a long journey that were all on.
As stated above that distributer is a good one but that yellow feed wire looks to be the wrong gauge if it is it will be trouble after it starts to break down.
I think it should be at least a 12 gauge and it looks like it's 14 and might be a 16. I run a 10 on my dist.
Also as above the spring is one of those little things that cause big problems.
Quadrajet carbs are very good if taken care of. There's lots of info on the computer about them. I bought a book by Cliff Ruggles that explains it very well.
I'm not sure about the 69 but my 72 has a strait rod coming from the choke heater. It looks like yours has a large bend in it.

[un4gvn!]

The very first thing you need to do is burn the phone number of the mechanic. There is no way he rebuilt anything on this carb. First indication is none of the rust is disturb on any of the screws or bolts from wrenches or screw drivers. If he cleaned anything, there will be no stains from faulty gaskets. There are a lot of good people for good advice here that will help you get through this. It also looks in the picture that you started with one of those steel fuel lines I mentioned. When you cut the line, did you use a tube cutter or wire cutters? I've seen where some bend the line back and forth til it broke away. That kink in the hose is a problem.

[un4gvn!]

From the looks of the picture, someone did strip the threads out in the filter housing. Did someone jam a nut of some sort in there. I never seen this. The hose fitting is for an air hose like for a air compressor. The piece you are holding is not for any Quad. The nut that holds the filter in place is much larger. I wish I had one here to post. I will look for one. This setup is not safe for you to run. I see a fire.

[dmjlambert]

Originally Posted by un4gvn!

From the looks of the picture, someone did strip the threads out in the filter housing. Did someone jam a nut of some sort in there. I never seen this. The hose fitting is for an air hose like for a air compressor. The piece you are holding is not for any Quad. The nut that holds the filter in place is much larger. I wish I had one here to post. I will look for one. This setup is not safe for you to run. I see a fire.

A lot of the way it is set up comes from before 1985, before the truck was parked for a few years. The truck had this fitting that seems to be a workaround for stripped housing threads. Do you think the carb is totaled and must be replaced, and use of an adapter like this is unacceptable? What part of this setup is the hazard? Is it because there is any fuel hose and the fuel line should be metal all the way from the fuel tank to the carb? I wonder if the section between the frame-mounted metal tube and the fuel pump should be flexible because the engine vibrates and is on rubber mounts.

Here is the fuel journey: What I have is the fuel line is metal coming from the fuel sender on the fuel tank. It goes down through a hole in the cab floor and makes a 90 degree turn toward the passenger side and ends. Then a few inches of fuel hose connects it to a metal tube the runs up the frame to the engine compartment where it has a U-bend to point toward the fuel pump. Then there is a few inches of fuel hose to connect to the fuel pump. There is a metal tube coming out of the fuel pump that goes up towards the carb, and ends a few inches from the carb. I did not cut that off, it is the way it was from years gone by. Then the final piece of hose connects the fuel pump metal line to the barb on the "stripped thread" adapter. If I use that stripped thread adapter, I could probably use that inline filter at any place where I have a section of hose.

The adapter is a flare fitting adapter that appears to be made specifically to fit in the carb. It then has what appears to be standard threads and that air hose barb. I suppose I may be able to just put a short piece of pipe that is flared, with a flare nut, on that adapter. I could run that pipe all the way to the fuel pump, or put a gap in it so I can use the inline filter.

Here is a picture of the adapter separated into its two parts, attached.

Originally Posted by Eddie H.

Where in the DFW area are you located?

What I can see from the pictures is a major fire hazard. You need to get the correct hard line from fuel pump to carburetor inlet,

http://www.lmctruck.com/icatalog/cb/full.aspx?Page=53

and install a fuel filter in the carb inlet like it is supposed to have.

Most importantly, You need to find someone who actually knows how to correctly rebuild a Quadrajet.

Your other option is to replace it with a new carburetor like a Holley or Edlebrock 1406 with electric choke. If you go this route, You will also need an adapter to run a square bore carburetor on your Quadrjet spread bore manifold.

What is the fire hazard? Is it that I'm using any fuel hose at all, or is it where the hose is situated? Is the stripped thread adapter a bad fix and the carb must be scrapped?

I am in the middle of Plano near US-75 and Parker Rd.

[dmjlambert]

Thank you all for your encouraging words and advice, I appreciate every word of it. I will take care of that return spring. I'm sure the one that is on there was a scrap from the garage floor. Are we talking about buying off the shelf 2 general purpose springs, or is it sold as an accelerator return spring? Universal one or buy one specifically for the C-10 or Quadrajet?

The yellow distributor wire is the stock wiring harness 20 gauge wire, I don't see any modifications of the wiring in that area. The wiring was rat-eaten in just a couple of places, involving the headlights and front turn signal, and human-eaten in the area of tail lights where somebody added a trailer connector.

For today's project, I was going to get rid of the inline filter, so I don't have that loop, and just get the filter for the built-in housing that is a part of the carb. I took the nut off and this picture shows what I found. There are 2 sets of threads, and the larger outer thread in the filter location is not used on my carb. The fitting I have screws into the inner set of threads and it has a smooth surface instead of the outer threads. Is this an adapter kit somebody put on there because they were having trouble with the built-in housing leaking or having stripped threads or something? Now I know why the filter nut felt "squishy" when I turned it with the wrench. It is because there is a big rubber washer in there. One thing about this adapter is it is hard as hell to get 3/8" fuel hose onto it over the barbs. I think the barb is for a larger hose, but 3/8" hose fits well on the pipe coming up from the fuel pump. Is anybody amused yet?

[truckster]

Originally Posted by dmjlambert

The yellow distributor wire is the stock wiring harness 20 gauge wire, I don't see any modifications of the wiring in that area.

That's a separate problem, but definitely a problem. You need 12v for HEI. The yellow wire has a resistor in it - it was made that way to spare the points on the original distributor. You need to get 12v to the HEI from a fused ignition-on source.

And I'm not amused at your problems, but I definitely wouldn't ever use that mechanic again.