Upgraded heads recommendation for my 87?

[Skunksmash]

My old truck just needs more power. Its not gutless, but its pretty far from great too. So I've got a few questions regarding upgrading the cylinder heads on my 1987 Silverado 5.7L. It has the stock engine. I'm looking to just bolt on a new upgraded set of heads (and maybe a few other necessary parts) and leave the stock bottom end. Not looking to pull the engine out or anything like that.


1. What are the best possible bang for the buck heads that will fit my 87 350, that are cast iron? Please be very specific because I'm not real familiar with this topic.

2. What are the best bang for the buck heads, that are aluminum?

3. Is there any reason I should buy aluminum instead of iron?

4. What kind of power increases can be expected from both sets? I assume that by now, that should be pretty well known by the 350 community.

5. What other parts should also be bought at the same time, to maximize the potential of the new heads? Don't want my old stock parts to be choking them out and hindering their power somehow.

6. Is there anything else that you think I should know, regarding such an upgrade? Please keep in mind that I just haven't dealt much with these old 350's. Aside from standard maintenance and just replacing consumable parts like spark plugs and distributor caps and oil pressure sending units and the like. Most of my work in daily life, is all done on modern engines, usually 4 cylinders like hondas and toyotas and such.

[Big Port Jimmy 6]

Well a motor is a motor is a motor. The same basic theories apply. Anything that nets more efficiency moving air from the intake to the exhaust is going to help with power. Now some questions for you.
Is it a TBI truck?
What kind of mods are already done?
If none perhaps there are some things to do before heads.
(Headers, Exhaust Intake etc)
How much power are you wanting?
Mileage and overall condition?
What's your primary use for the truck?

Jay

[bbbc10]

If its a factory tbi i would keep it like that......they make a intake manifold for tbi.....i would say stock vortec heads but u will have to ditch all the factory tbi stuff an run a carb setup....some longtube headers if ur not really low an exhaust

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by Big Port Jimmy 6

Well a motor is a motor is a motor. The same basic theories apply. Anything that nets more efficiency moving air from the intake to the exhaust is going to help with power. Now some questions for you.
Is it a TBI truck?
What kind of mods are already done?
If none perhaps there are some things to do before heads.
(Headers, Exhaust Intake etc)
How much power are you wanting?
Mileage and overall condition?
What's your primary use for the truck?

Jay

Yeah its a TBI truck. Don't really want to mess with a carb.

The only mod done to the engine is a CFM tech brand throttle body spacer.

For power, I'm not real sure. I think I'd want to net at least 50hp/50tq. At least. 100hp/tq would be great, but if that's not feasible due to price or road manners, I'll accept less. Like I said, the old girl needs a kick in the seat of the pants.

I can't be sure on the mileage. I really have no idea, since those old odometers only went to 99k. If we assume its rolled over only once, it would be 153k. Which, given I'm the second owner of the truck and the good condition that its in, might actually be true. But I can't say for sure.

My primary use for the truck is... well its really just a street truck. I use it to tow the boat to the lake, to go get parts from the parts store, groceries, hauling that a half ton can do, etc. Pretty much all a normal truck's duties, but I do need it to have road manners.

As for mods before the heads, I'd like to just do it all at once and get it over with. So once I'd settled on heads, I'd be looking for the right intake. Then of course I'd go ahead and put the longtubes on, since I'd have it all apart already anyway. So I want to have all the parts ready to go on at once.

Originally Posted by bbbc10

If its a factory tbi i would keep it like that......they make a intake manifold for tbi.....i would say stock vortec heads but u will have to ditch all the factory tbi stuff an run a carb setup....some longtube headers if ur not really low an exhaust

Yeah I will definitely be keeping the fuel injection system. I'd also already planned on some nice longtube headers, once I bought the heads. I didn't know you had to ditch TBI to go with votec heads.

[Nick_R_23]

If you have a TBI truck, the heads are what are initially limiting you, followed by the TBI system itself. It's not a very performance oriented setup in any way. You probably would never see much benefit from aluminum heads, other than weight savings, as the rest of the engine (TBI unit, intake, cam, and exhaust manifolds) will never reach the heads' flow capabilities from a stock system. Your best bang for the buck would be 5.7L Vortec heads from a 96-00 truck. You will need a matching intake manifold as Vortec heads utilize a different intake bolt pattern. I believe TBI-to-Vortec aluminum intakes are available now to bolt the TBI throttle body directly to the Vortec setup with no adapter plates. Headers will help a bit, as will a camshaft, but you will be limited to basically Police Package/Corvette cam specs, as the TBI system gets picky and likes to throw EGR codes with even mild cams such as those. The TBI unit itself will ultimately be your limiting factor, as you are basically working with an electronic two-barrel carb.

Edit: Here is the intake you would need to run your TBI directly on Vortec heads http://www.jegs.com/i/GM+Performance...FQ5EfgodQr0HeA

[Dead Parrot]

I recommend you get a compression check done on your existing engine before you do any buying. No point in putting hundreds of dollars of new parts on a wore out lower.

Spend some time browsing the Jegs and Summit websites. They will give you some price info before you get too settled on a solution. And you can see what adapters are made for what manifolds etc.

You might also consider buying a crate motor. I know you said you didn't want to pull the motor but it might wind up being a lower cost solution. And if you pull the transmission at the same time, you can have those leaky seals replaced.

[Big Port Jimmy 6]

This guy seems to have the TBIs figured out, but I have no proof so Caveat Emptor.
http://tbichips.com/?page_id=73

And I'll agree with what Nick said above.

[chris989]

Skunkmash,

Here is my TBI build. I have about 2500 mile on it and could not be happier. After some simple tuning experiments I reinstalled my OEM chip with zero modifications. I get ~14 mpg around town.

I just towed my 8500lb camper up to McCall, Idaho and did not have one issue. There are some really steep grades that slowed to 45mph on but honestly it was winding road anyway.

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=696544

Not sure of your tire size and gears but for return on investment maybe gears and an OD might be more power were you need it???

[Malo83]

Try a bigger Holley TBI, good reviews
http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/502-6/10002/-1

[Skunksmash]

Looking at all the costs that everyone has laid out here for me...

Its probably better just to upgrade to a 5.3

[chris989]

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

Looking at all the costs that everyone has laid out here for me...

Its probably better just to upgrade to a 5.3

An LS swap is 100 percent diferent motor. unless you have a complete doner it will be more $ than you thought.


Lets not over look the simple stuff.

what is the condition of you current motor? Compression, wipped cam? distributor slop, chain slop?? if the motor is toast, get a new one for 1600 and be done. after selling my core motor i was in the new motor 1300$
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=696544


What gears are you running? tire height?

you can put thousands into a motor and if you have 278 gears it will still be a dog.

find out and post what you have to start with and you will get real world options.

the OEM swirl port heads get a bad rap but under 4000 rpm they do what they are designed for. low rpm torque, not a lot, but for a tock motor it does ok IMO.

[rfmaster]

TBI system in itself is not a limiting factor - it does need some love!

Plain and simple - swirl port heads were designed to provide low end torque under 4300 RPM. Commonly found on 5.7L LO5 engines (87 to 95 various applications) with 11402193 heads that have 65 +/-1 CC combustion chambers. Other casting numbers are 191, 810.

Question is how much more power do you want and what is you budget?

Stock LO5 engines were rated around 190 to 210HP (optimistic) depending on application. GM TBI system can easily support 250 to 275HP at higher fuel pressure, or with BBC injectors and different timing maps. The problem with a stock LO5 is a tiny flat tappet camshaft: 0.382/0.402" I/E, @.050 166/174.8 deg, LSA 112deg and restrictive heads.

A very common upgrade to LO5 (while retaining TBI) is to ditch stock cam and heads. Since bottom end is not coming out you'll have to live with stock dished pistons, which are okay for stock to mild builds up - 250 to 275HP levels.

If you are on a tight budget I would suggest first find your block casting number. Since you have 1987 truck you may have a block that has roller cam spider bosses cast, but not drilled and tapped. This requires intake removal. From the factory truck LO5 were equipped with a flat tappet cams. Car version of the LO5 (Caprice) were equipped with roller cams! It is likely that you may have a roller compatible block that was not drilled and tapped to accept the factory roller lifter "spider" in the lifter valley or the cam retaining plate behind the timing chain gear. The block can be drilled and tapped by you or machine shop and then a roller cam can be installed. If your block happens to be drilled and tapped even though it has a flat tappet cam in it right now, then you're all set. Once you figure this you can select which type of camshaft you can use. Since today's oil contain low Zinc it is better to go with a roller camshaft. It is very common to wipe out brand new flat tappet cam running today's oils.

If your block has roller cam shaft provisions you can go with either roller or flat tappet cam.

On the budget.
ROLLER - a used LT1 cam is hard to beat and it will work with TBI. You'll need roller lifters, spider plate, dog bones, camshaft retention plate (there are two different types depending on the block mounting holes). For an exhaustive and detailed information on LT1 I would recommend this guide.
http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/2...-ultimate.html
A milder (dirt cheap) approach is a Vortec camshaft 12530282 191/196deg I/E, 0.414"/.428" I/E lift; 111º LSA. These cams can be pulled from JY L31 donor together with all needed hardware (spider, dog bones, lifters, plate + bolts).


FLAT TAPPET
Numerous choices, but you must get a 'computer compatible' cam! My past choices that worked with TBI: CS-1014R; CS1105R; COMP Cam 12-262-4; Lunati 30138; Summit SUM-1102 (same spec as CS-1014R)

Once you know what camshaft you can go with cylinder head selection becomes a bit more clear. Separate post on cylinder heads, but in a nutshell it is tough to beat (money and performance) a brand new, complete after market AL or CI heads from Summit, Jegs, SW, + others. Just make sure that you have 87+ intake compatible holes drilled and tapped and the head is setup for the camshaft that you're running. Look for 64 to 65cc heads. 68+ cc heads are too big and you will loose compression!! You want at least 9.0:1 or higher for performance depending on the gas that you run.

//RF

[WorkinLonghorn]

I must have missed it, what were the results of a compression test on each cylinder ?
If this hasn't been done then do it now or even a leak-down test.
Dead Parrot already asked this but I didn't see an answer. Brian

[Skunksmash]

Originally Posted by WorkinLonghorn

I must have missed it, what were the results of a compression test on each cylinder ?
If this hasn't been done then do it now or even a leak-down test.
Dead Parrot already asked this but I didn't see an answer. Brian

Haven't done one yet, but I do have a compression tester. I was just seeing if it was really even worth it, and getting some good ideas and comparisons.

[Nick_R_23]

Time for a 6.0L!

[Skunksmash]

Is the 6.0 any better than the 5.3? I'm sure it has a bit more power, but how are things in terms of fuel mileage?

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

My old truck just needs more power. Its not gutless, but its pretty far from great too. So I've got a few questions regarding upgrading the cylinder heads on my 1987 Silverado 5.7L. It has the stock engine. I'm looking to just bolt on a new upgraded set of heads (and maybe a few other necessary parts) and leave the stock bottom end. Not looking to pull the engine out or anything like that.


1. What are the best possible bang for the buck heads that will fit my 87 350, that are cast iron? Please be very specific because I'm not real familiar with this topic.

GM Chevrolet Performance Vortec cylinder heads ($50 bucks each used pulled from 1999 Chevrolet Suburbans at the junk yard)

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

2. What are the best bang for the buck heads, that are aluminum?

Blue Print by far best bang for the buck

H8002K - Heads - 195cc SB Chevy Head

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

3. Is there any reason I should buy aluminum instead of iron?

better cooling properties, pros / cons (lighter on your hands / heavier on your wallet, lol)

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

4. What kind of power increases can be expected from both sets? I assume that by now, that should be pretty well known by the 350 community.

as they say how much do you want to pay, you can spend crazy amounts of money to pay a machine shop that knows what they are doing to put bigger valves in pretty much any decent iron heads and port and polish them and make them 400 HP heads, it takes many many other components to deliver a total package, cam, rockers, pistons, carb, exhaust, etc.

visit the Chevrolet Performance website and select Small Block engines, you can sort them by horse power, torque or size and start clicking on them one by one then look at their output and read their specs, they list every part that goes into building that engine, even if you don't buy GM, you can see what the cylinder head specs were, or the cam specs, etc.

here's a chart for an engine called the 350 HO TURN-KEY with Vortec iron; 64-cc chambers Cylinder Heads (P/N 12558060):
Camshaft Type (P/N 24502476):Hydraulic flat tappet
Camshaft Lift (in.):.435 intake / .460 exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in.):212° intake / 222° exhaust

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

5. What other parts should also be bought at the same time, to maximize the potential of the new heads? Don't want my old stock parts to be choking them out and hindering their power somehow.

Cam ie Camshaft anything with 1/2 inch or less is a good cam for a street daily driver (1/2 inch in cam specs is .500 or less valve lift), after that your vacuum will be too low and your truck won't idle smoothly or good

this is street car recommendation not weekend warrior at the drag strip

Originally Posted by Skunksmash

6. Is there anything else that you think I should know, regarding such an upgrade? Please keep in mind that I just haven't dealt much with these old 350's. Aside from standard maintenance and just replacing consumable parts like spark plugs and distributor caps and oil pressure sending units and the like. Most of my work in daily life, is all done on modern engines, usually 4 cylinders like hondas and toyotas and such.

Watch out for the domino effect, sometimes when you change heads you will need new valve covers as there are two kinds, center bolt and outside bolt

also some heads (like the Vortec ones) have a different intake manifold angle and therefor require a special Vortec style intake manifold

and as always where do you stop, ok so you bought heads and a cam, might as well get new lifters, or do you? might as well get new push rods, or do you?, might as well get new rockers, or do you? hewk got a new cam so might as well replace the timing set (chain and sprockets) or do you? well since we took the water pump off to get the cam out no sense in bolting the old still working water pump back on might as well get a new one, or do you? etc. etc. etc.

put a plan down on paper with a budget, six months later when you are done, see how you've done

[LT7A]

Skunk, based on how you evaluated your truck's current performance, I'll summarize, "mostly happy with it", I think you can have some fun tweaking your small block since you don't need a lot more power. I have a 93 TBI motor (non-Vortec) that is pretty fun to drive and makes all the right noises. I ran a Flowmaster cat-back exhaust and felt the difference. I went to an open element air cleaner and that was a good change. I went to a high flow catalytic converter, and that helped. Next are mods to the TBI. I did the "salad bowl" under the air cleaner and that helped air flow. Google ultimate TBI mods. From there, the projects on the tbichips.com website actually give you a ton of good info, commentary, and recipes (for power, not grandma's sawdust and horse-hide biscuits).

You can progressively do the mods I have listed. None of them require a change in the ECU chip. Once you change the cam, you may need to get a custom chip. My understanding is that the Vortec heads are worth about 40-50 hp out of the box, if the intake and exhaust will flow enough to utilize them. You could do those heads down the road with the GMPP TBI manifold. Then add headers if you want. Regardless, if you have an accordion Y-pipe in the exhaust, you can replace it with a mandrel bent one or go to dual exhaust (spendy if you have to run cats). They stock Y-pipes are known to be a major restriction in the 88-98 trucks. If your system has a cat I would keep running a cat. It makes captain planet happy and keeps your computer seeing more of what it expects.

Bear in mind that low end torque is what you want if you are pushing tall gears, so use moderate exhaust diameter and moderate cam specs. If you do any driving in town, the shorter gears may save you gas there to balance the higher RPMs on the highway. The 3.42s may be a great compromise. I don't think we know how big/heavy your truck is (or isn't). I went with 3.73s instead of the standard 3.50s when I ordered my truck since it is an extended cab 4x4 and relatively heavy. My RPMs are about 1800 at 70 mph with a 4L60E.

Let us know what you decide to do and how it works out. Even if it's one thing at a time, I'll enjoy following along.

Thanks, LT7A