Best Handling Bang For Buck?

[ShortCST]

In a few hours, the 15% sale at Hotchkis will be over. So with a little bit of cash in my pocket, I'm considering options to make my truck safer. Disc brakes is one consideration for my '68 short fleet (factory drums all around), and so are chassis/suspension mods.

I love the look of my mostly stock survivor, so if I were going to lower the center of gravity at all, I would be looking at maybe the 1.875" drop Hotchkis Springs in front, and some 2" springs out back.

Would sway bars give me a better improvement in cornering/handling? I have a solid sway bar up front (Early Classic, iirc). I don't feel like it did a whole lot for me.

[Canuckvetter]

I recently went from no sway bar to 1-1/4" from a square body 1 ton.
The handling on highway ramps is night and day.



http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1495417586

[ShortCST]

Originally Posted by Canuckvetter

I recently went from no sway bar to 1-1/4" from a square body 1 ton.
The handling on highway ramps is night and day.



http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1495417586

Cool, thanks! Is your truck at stock height?

[Canuckvetter]

Originally Posted by ShortCST

Cool, thanks! Is your truck at stock height?

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1495418541

No. 3" drop front and rear

[ShortCST]

Originally Posted by Canuckvetter

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...1&d=1495418541

No. 3" drop front and rear

Looks great!👌🏻

[panhead59]

I realize the sale u were referring to is probably over but u mention a safety upgrade. If your drum brakes are not "power", that's where I would start. If they ARE vac. assisted then u may be able to live with 'em. Disc brakes up front would greatly decrease your stopping distance. It's a big upgrade in performance but also is not cheap. Lowering a little ( but- "I love the look of my mostly stock survivor") with new spindles are mentioned as this is one way to start the addition of the disc brakes. You could still retain the stock height if u wanted, or drop it a little. Same price. Leveling the truck looks better in my opinion but you may "love the look" of a little rake as in stock trucks. Lowering the rear is cheap. $100 springs and a new pair of shocks. I would venture to say the most popular drop is a 2/4" , though some will debate that. It's all up to your taste. A front disc set up will most likely need different wheels. A lot of old, stock wheels weren't designed with enough clearence for the disc brake caliper and will hit eachother. And wheels are not cheap. Sway bars do help. Generally speaking, the bigger the diameter, the better. Not sure with these trucks, but a rear sway bar only adds to help. But hey, it's a truck!!! And a 60's era truck. It'll never ride/handle like a modern vehical without extensive suspension upgrades. Just my opinions.

[ShortCST]

Originally Posted by panhead59

I realize the sale u were referring to is probably over but u mention a safety upgrade. If your drum brakes are not "power", that's where I would start. If they ARE vac. assisted then u may be able to live with 'em. Disc brakes up front would greatly decrease your stopping distance. It's a big upgrade in performance but also is not cheap. Lowering a little ( but- "I love the look of my mostly stock survivor") with new spindles are mentioned as this is one way to start the addition of the disc brakes. You could still retain the stock height if u wanted, or drop it a little. Same price. Leveling the truck looks better in my opinion but you may "love the look" of a little rake as in stock trucks. Lowering the rear is cheap. $100 springs and a new pair of shocks. I would venture to say the most popular drop is a 2/4" , though some will debate that. It's all up to your taste. A front disc set up will most likely need different wheels. A lot of old, stock wheels weren't designed with enough clearence for the disc brake caliper and will hit eachother. And wheels are not cheap. Sway bars do help. Generally speaking, the bigger the diameter, the better. Not sure with these trucks, but a rear sway bar only adds to help. But hey, it's a truck!!! And a 60's era truck. It'll never ride/handle like a modern vehical without extensive suspension upgrades. Just my opinions.

Thanks guys. That's a lot of great information. Right now, I've got assisted drums. They do a decent job, but I'm in need of a full brake job, so I was shopping for disc brake steelies and disc conversions. Should I put discs in the rear as well? I'm guessing that I can't use my existing booster on a disc conversion.

Since I already have an aftermarket sway bar in front, I'm going to drop it 2", and consider the grippier tire option. Right now I'm riding on 235/75R15 American Classic all-seasons. They're still almost brand new, though.

I've got the stock 3 nub drum brake steel wheels on the truck now. 5.5" wide, I believe? Would I be able to fit any wider tire on the rear if I put 6" wide wheels on it, or would I need to go 8" to get say, a 255 tire on the rear?

[Bigdav160]

Biggest bang for the buck? Wheels and tires.

The suspension in these trucks didn't change much over the years. Sway bars should help a lot.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

Biggest bang for the buck? Wheels and tires.

The suspension in these trucks didn't change much over the years. Sway bars should help a lot.

Came here to say this.

I used to run skinny tires front and rear in the winter and put the fat tires back on in the spring. Night and day difference.

K

[EARNHARDT#3]

I went from 215/70 15's (I think) on the stock wheels to 255/55-15 on the 15x8 Rally wheels and wow what a huge difference that made. I was only doing it for looks. It was a nice surprise when the handling improved that much. I have a 1969 C20 front sway bar to put on. Can't wait because everyone says it's such a huge improvement.

[68Stepbed]

I'll try to add some input, here, and try not to hurt any feelings. I apologize in advance if I do. Several years ago, I did something very similar to what you're trying to do. I had just swapped in a 350 in place of the original 250 6banger. The truck had a decent stance on stock springs, but I wanted to drop it "just a little." So I stood back and thought where I wanted it to sit. After purchasing new 1" front and 2" rear drop springs and installing them, it actually lifted the truck about an inch. I never put consideration to the fact the stock springs had settled over the past 30 years. I lived with it for a couple years, but was never happy with it. When the truck came apart for new paint, I added drop spindles up front and 4' drop springs in the rear, which even still got replaced with 5" drop springs a year later, and eventually .75" blocks.

That satisfied me until I did an LS swap in 2012, in which case I ended up ordering 2" springs for the front and Hotchkis 6" rear springs.

If I had it all to do again, I'd have just ordered the 4.5/6 drop kit and been happy for much longer for much less money. I'm not saying you'll go this exact route, but I just want to let you know how it can snowball.

My advice is look at LOTS AND LOTS of stance photos with a wheel/tire combo you plan to run and make sure exactly what you want before just ordering parts and hoping it looks the way you want.

Also, I'm not trying to put down Hotchkis in any way, but their springs are a bit pricey for the very small gains you'll actually see from them. If you bought the whole package, maybe, but just springs won't make huge differences. ECE springs with correct length shocks would suffice quite well for much less money.

As for a sway bar, yes, it will make a huge difference in handling on these trucks. I couldn't believe the difference just a sway bar made on mine when I first installed one. A rear sway bar may or may not make a difference. I've heard some say it helps, and seen lots of guys in trucks say the rear bar makes the front push too much.

My advice for a sway bar is to either find an original(make sure you get the frame stands) and add Poly bushings. Or, buy a "stock style" bar from a company like ECE, CPP, etc. No need to get exotic with a sway bar unless you plan to hit the autocrosses or road courses hard. Something about sway bars: 73-87 3/4 and 1 ton trucks came with a larger 1 1/4" bar instead of the 1" or 1 1/8" bars on half ton trucks.

I'll also ask a question. When you say "handling", exactly what performance goals are you wanting from the truck? Do you just want it to be fun on back roads or are you after something more spirited?

Either way, you want the wheels/tires as squared up as you can get. Skinnier tires up front with fat meats on the rear doesn't make for a good handling combination. I went from a 17x8 255/50 F, 17x9.5 275/55 R combo to an 18x9.5 285/40 on all four combo last year. The difference was night and day!! The first autocross event with the new wheels/tires, people were asking what I had changed because it cornered so much better then the previous events.

[ShortCST]

Thanks for the tire tips, guys. Makes all the sense in the world.

[ShortCST]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

I'll try to add some input, here, and try not to hurt any feelings. I apologize in advance if I do. Several years ago, I did something very similar to what you're trying to do. I had just swapped in a 350 in place of the original 250 6banger. The truck had a decent stance on stock springs, but I wanted to drop it "just a little." So I stood back and thought where I wanted it to sit. After purchasing new 1" front and 2" rear drop springs and installing them, it actually lifted the truck about an inch. I never put consideration to the fact the stock springs had settled over the past 30 years. I lived with it for a couple years, but was never happy with it. When the truck came apart for new paint, I added drop spindles up front and 4' drop springs in the rear, which even still got replaced with 5" drop springs a year later, and eventually .75" blocks.

That satisfied me until I did an LS swap in 2012, in which case I ended up ordering 2" springs for the front and Hotchkis 6" rear springs.

If I had it all to do again, I'd have just ordered the 4.5/6 drop kit and been happy for much longer for much less money. I'm not saying you'll go this exact route, but I just want to let you know how it can snowball.

My advice is look at LOTS AND LOTS of stance photos with a wheel/tire combo you plan to run and make sure exactly what you want before just ordering parts and hoping it looks the way you want.

Also, I'm not trying to put down Hotchkis in any way, but their springs are a bit pricey for the very small gains you'll actually see from them. If you bought the whole package, maybe, but just springs won't make huge differences. ECE springs with correct length shocks would suffice quite well for much less money.

As for a sway bar, yes, it will make a huge difference in handling on these trucks. I couldn't believe the difference just a sway bar made on mine when I first installed one. A rear sway bar may or may not make a difference. I've heard some say it helps, and seen lots of guys in trucks say the rear bar makes the front push too much.

My advice for a sway bar is to either find an original(make sure you get the frame stands) and add Poly bushings. Or, buy a "stock style" bar from a company like ECE, CPP, etc. No need to get exotic with a sway bar unless you plan to hit the autocrosses or road courses hard. Something about sway bars: 73-87 3/4 and 1 ton trucks came with a larger 1 1/4" bar instead of the 1" or 1 1/8" bars on half ton trucks.

I'll also ask a question. When you say "handling", exactly what performance goals are you wanting from the truck? Do you just want it to be fun on back roads or are you after something more spirited?

Either way, you want the wheels/tires as squared up as you can get. Skinnier tires up front with fat meats on the rear doesn't make for a good handling combination. I went from a 17x8 255/50 F, 17x9.5 275/55 R combo to an 18x9.5 285/40 on all four combo last year. The difference was night and day!! The first autocross event with the new wheels/tires, people were asking what I had changed because it cornered so much better then the previous events.

Matt, thanks for taking the time to write all of this great food for thought.

When I mention handling, I mean greater stability at speed (highway transitions, emergency maneuvers at speed, etc.), and fun on back roads.

I totally appreciate what you're saying about poring over tons of stance photos before I start buying stuff. I really love the way that my truck looks, and if I could make it handle like a NASCAR racer without changing the stance, I would. Except that I couldn't afford to.

[68Stepbed]

Originally Posted by ShortCST

Matt, thanks for taking the time to write all of this great food for thought.

When I mention handling, I mean greater stability at speed (highway transitions, emergency maneuvers at speed, etc.), and fun on back roads.

I totally appreciate what you're saying about poring over tons of stance photos before I start buying stuff. I really love the way that my truck looks, and if I could make it handle like a NASCAR racer without changing the stance, I would. Except that I couldn't afford to.

It sounds like a mild 2/4 drop, stock style sway bar, and front disc brakes will put you where you want to be with it. If you're on a budget, then there's no need to get into rear disc brakes and rear sway bars. However, if you search swap meets and classifieds, you might find a used front & rear sway bar set.

As said before, these trucks do quite well compared to their previous models, and even slightly better than the 73-87 models(probably the trailing arms vs leaf spring setup.)

One thing to make sure, is that the ball joints, tie rods. and control arm bushings are in good shape, as they will cause for ill handling characteristics.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by ShortCST

In a few hours, the 15% sale at Hotchkis will be over. So with a little bit of cash in my pocket, I'm considering options to make my truck safer. Disc brakes is one consideration for my '68 short fleet (factory drums all around), and so are chassis/suspension mods.

I'm coming in late, and only to reply to the safer comment. Upgrading brakes to stop shorter will make it safer, but no need to do anything to the suspension to make it safer. These trucks already have a safe center of gravity. They are easy to keep on the road around any curve. If you want a cooler stance or to drive around corners faster, then lower it. But it's not a safety matter at all.

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by ShortCST

In a few hours, the 15% sale at Hotchkis will be over. So with a little bit of cash in my pocket, I'm considering options to make my truck safer. Disc brakes is one consideration for my '68 short fleet (factory drums all around), and so are chassis/suspension mods.

I love the look of my mostly stock survivor, so if I were going to lower the center of gravity at all, I would be looking at maybe the 1.875" drop Hotchkis Springs in front, and some 2" springs out back.

Would sway bars give me a better improvement in cornering/handling? I have a solid sway bar up front (Early Classic, iirc). I don't feel like it did a whole lot for me.

beautiful truck!

[ShortCST]

Thanks for your perspective, Tim. Living in Southern California, I'm interested in accident avoidance. So, probably front discs, and slightly lower center of gravity for emergency maneuvers.

Thanks Matt. I think I'll do just about that. Except that I may do the Hotchkis 1.875" drop higher rate front springs with two inch lowering blocks at the rear, just to keep the look closer to original.

[ShortCST]

Originally Posted by 68bowtie

beautiful truck!

Thanks! Yours is beautiful as well! Love the steelies/dog dish combo, and the painted bed wood. I've been thinking about what to do with the original red painted wood in my bed as well. It's so expensive to buy those drilled and countersunk kits.

[franken]

Rear disks won't change dry braking performance much unless you start to beat on it til the rears fade. Best bang for the buck? Use scrapyard parts and rebuild them as needed. All of the work can be in your driveway w/ hand tools.

A disk front crossmember from 71-87 bolts in. Might have to drill a few holes. Of course rebuilding that new front end will cost money, but its the same needed to rebuild the existing front end most likely.
Later sway bar in front.
Troll for a rear sway bar and make it fit.
Finally, a deep tuneup, detail, and (most important in this sentence) complete fluid change are almost always needed. Fluids:

coolant
engine oil
brake flush
diffs
trans
transfer case in my case