Wandering steering???🤔🤨

[Robznob11]

Ok guys searching for answers. I have new everything. Porterbuilt 1" forward ,1" narrowed arms. Brand new red head box, every part of the steering is new except drag link. I have a Cherokee steering shaft, no rag joint just u joints. The problem is ....it goes fairly straight down the road but seems to wander some. I have 5 1/2* caster -1.5 camber at ride hight and 1/8 toe in. I have air ride on 4 corners. So the question? Is it typical old design just have to live with it? Could there be play in the van tilt? Will the porterbuilt front sway bar help? Could it be because I run 25 psi in the rear drag radials. I even feel it at low speed. I do have a bump steer kit I want to install. I measured today and as the suspension goes down it toes in. When I went 2" above ride hight it toed out almost 1/2". I don't feel like I'm getting that much suspension travel just putting around tho. What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Ok guys searching for answers. I have new everything. Porterbuilt 1" forward ,1" narrowed arms. Brand new red head box, every part of the steering is new except drag link. I have a Cherokee steering shaft, no rag joint just u joints. The problem is ....it goes fairly straight down the road but seems to wander some. I have 5 1/2* caster -1.5 camber at ride hight and 1/8 toe in. I have air ride on 4 corners. So the question? Is it typical old design just have to live with it? Could there be play in the van tilt? Will the porterbuilt front sway bar help? Could it be because I run 25 psi in the rear drag radials. I even feel it at low speed. I do have a bump steer kit I want to install. I measured today and as the suspension goes down it toes in. When I went 2" above ride hight it toed out almost 1/2". I don't feel like I'm getting that much suspension travel just putting around tho. What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?

I don't really have a clue with all of the aftermarket parts you have installed but I am going to throw something out here..... Are you sure you don't have your centerlink installed backwards? I know that can cause the problem you are seeing. The nuts on the tie rod ends should be facing forward.

LockDoc

[davischevy]

The two things that come to mind are,

steering box centered,

worn tires. The worn tires seems like a stretch, but I have had two instances where I had tires that were run out of alignment, and after I did front end work, I had a "wandering" car.

[Robznob11]

Yes sir already checked that. Looks like my bump steer kit will clear so that's the next step!

[Boog]

Do the front tires squeal a little bit going around corners? That plus wander and tight steering sure sounds like a toe out condition.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by Boog

Do the front tires squeal a little bit going around corners? That plus wander and tight steering sure sounds like a toe out condition.

Steering is not tight. It steers fine. It all does well just seems like I have to chase it around more than I should. But I'm also used to driving the newer cars and I know it will never feel like that. I did learn that every time I make a toe adjustment I need to turn the wheels lock to lock before re checking to get an accurate measurement. I really think that the forward arms and bags have caused the tie rod mount point on the spindle to turn up and back. So I'm hoping by putting the bump steer kit on it will fix it. I believe that is why the toe goes out 1/2 " with 2" of rebound travel which I think confirms a bump steer condition. I know no suspension is perfect but 1/2" in that little of travel seems excessive. Also the fact that it goes in nearly the same in compression makes me even more confident in that hypothesis. I talked with porterbuilt and they said they tilted the ball joint to correct the bump steer, but I just don't know that I agree. As far as the steering being centered I don't know how you could get that off? There is a flat on the pitman arm it only goes one way. I can tell you that I measured the tie rod/adjuster assembly's and mad sure they are both the same length side to side...

[Boog]

Oh ok. You mentioned tight steering above.
'What do y'alls trick drive like...any have tight steering?'

I once drove an 88 Chevy truck with 10" wheels and 295/15 tires all around. That one was a monster to drive. It wandered real bad. Even with power steering it was bad just going across town. I turned that one down because it was so bad. The wider front wheels will tend to follow the low spots worn into the pavement a little more so than narrower ones.
You could borrow a couple of narrower wheels and tires to test on your front end to eliminate that possibility.

[clay68c10]

You may try running some more tire pressure.
How wide are all 4? That can make them wander if the tires are wide, it will tend to track along with any changes in the road surface. Kind of like bias plys.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by clay68c10

You may try running some more tire pressure.
How wide are all 4? That can make them wander if the tires are wide, it will tend to track along with any changes in the road surface. Kind of like bias plys.

Fronts are about 10" wide and rears are 15" wide.

[clay68c10]

If you can swap some narrower rears on there it would be worth it just for trouble shooting. A 15” wide tire sure seems like it will follow road imperfections.
Got any buddies that will hook you up for a day?

[davepl]

For what it's worth, I just reinstalled my steering box that I got back from Redhead (had it rebuilt there) and there is ZERO play in a new steering box.

I don't mean just a little dead zone, I mean none other than the flexibility of the rag joint itself.

So no, they don't have any play when they're new. I'm not saying the driving experience has zero play, it might pick up slop elsewhere, I just mean the box input to output itself.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by davepl

For what it's worth, I just reinstalled my steering box that I got back from Redhead (had it rebuilt there) and there is ZERO play in a new steering box.

I don't mean just a little dead zone, I mean none other than the flexibility of the rag joint itself.

So no, they don't have any play when they're new. I'm not saying the driving experience has zero play, it might pick up slop elsewhere, I just mean the box input to output itself.

I agree with you I can tell it tightened up some with the new box. I'm sure its elsewhere. Hopefully this week I can install the bumpsteer kit and see if it changes. I may just need to bite the bullet and get the sway bar too.

[davepl]

No front sway bar? I think you definitely want that, I've never even driven a vehicle outside the dragstrip without a sway bar!

More caster will help prevent wandering, can you dial any more caster into it (learning the top back, I always forget if that's negative or positive).

As a wild long shot if you get your link bar on backwards, and it WILL fit backwards, the truck will be darty and impossible to align properly but it doesn't sound like you've got it that bad.

One post said you can get more caster by adding a shim on the END of the stud, which I've never tried, but it makes some sense.

[dennislbrooks]

You guys solved my wandering on my k10. This is also maybe a long shot but make sure all joint nuts are to required torque. I had all new or rebuilt parts also .My center link required further tightening. Check drag link also. Agree with wide tires following road grooves. My C4 and C6 were like that.

[davischevy]

He already has 5.5 degrees caster. That seems like enough. I think I would try the other stuff first.

When adjusting caster, if a shim is added to the rear stud, the same thickness shim needs to be removed from the front. If you only change shims on one stud you will affect camber also.

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by davischevy

He already has 5.5 degrees caster. That seems like enough. I think I would try the other stuff first.

When adjusting caster, if a shim is added to the rear stud, the same thickness shim needs to be removed from the front. If you only change shims on one stud you will affect camber also.

I think this is a little backwards�� I was always under the impression to set caster first then camber. Because moving any shims changes camber but if your caster is set then you can adjust camber two shims at a time and not affect the caster. Either way. That part is dialed in fairly good I would like to have less neg camber but I can only go so far.. that's the bad part about air ride.

[demian5]

How much caster is in it? If you are driving newer cars, they have much more caster and that helps the vehicle go down the road straight and solid.

I just put CPP upper and lower tubular arms on a 69 chevelle and asked for as much positive caster as they could get me. They got me +2 degrees where factory was I believe +0.1. Solid and straight as fast as you want to go...

[Robznob11]

I have 5.5* of caster. Running porterbuilt forward arms.

[demian5]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

I have 5.5* of caster. Running porterbuilt forward arms.

Is it +5.5 or -5.5
+5.5 is quite a bit and if anything would make it more stable but harder to turn at low speeds like in a parking lot)
-5.5 would have you all over the road.

Could you have the arms on backwards?
They do look like they could mount left or right.
Reason I ask is that I just did a complete CPP suspension on my buddy's Chevelle and the arms looked like they needed to be installed one way to get the right positive caster, but then they would have been on backwards.

Also, the change in toe would make a difference, but not a low speeds.

http://cartreatments.com/negative-an...ster-symptoms/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle

[Robznob11]

Originally Posted by demian5

Is it +5.5 or -5.5
+5.5 is quite a bit and if anything would make it more stable but harder to turn at low speeds like in a parking lot)
-5.5 would have you all over the road.

Could you have the arms on backwards?
They do look like they could mount left or right.

http://cartreatments.com/negative-an...ster-symptoms/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caster_angle

Lol no the problem was the draglink....it is a 72 drag link which takes a 10* taper rod end. I had 68 rod in that are a 7* taper. Needless to say it had play on both sides. My silly assumption was that since it had drum brakes the draglink must be stock. But apparently some one did not know any better and changed it before I took ownership. Now with that being said I would think I was smart enough to catch that...but again the push to the finish to get the truck done and lack of paying attention bit me square in the rear!

[demian5]

Originally Posted by Robznob11

Lol no the problem was the draglink....it is a 72 drag link which takes a 10* taper rod end. I had 68 rod in that are a 7* taper. Needless to say it had play on both sides. My silly assumption was that since it had drum brakes the draglink must be stock. But apparently some one did not know any better and changed it before I took ownership. Now with that being said I would think I was smart enough to catch that...but again the push to the finish to get the truck done and lack of paying attention bit me square in the rear!

May want to do a post that talks about this difference, the issues it caused and how you found out so its an easy search to help someone out down the road.

[davepl]

Hee... I was driving my blue truck yesterday for the first time this spring and when I crossed some tracks I heard "Ting... ting... pow!...".

Something fell off! Hope it was a tool or spare clamp I left behind and not an important part...

[sduckworth13]

Rob do you have your centerlink on correct? It can be installed backwards and still fit. Never mind I scroll past a lot. Glad you got the issue solved.