47-55.1 Overdrive Transmission Question(s)

[h2000fb]

I recently bought this 53 truck. Has a 235 in it with an OD tranny. Overdrive never hooked-up since rebuild. When I bought it, to my best description, the tranny is in Free-Wheeling mode.

I think it is a Borgwarner. The solenoid off the tranny looks like the wires should attach to the end of it, but not hooked-up but nothing there.

Questions stem from how you go about correctly testing one and a few usage questions.

• • Do you just connect the solenoid to 12vdc and see if it clicks?
• • If it does, is your next step driving it and see if the OD kicks in?
• • Do you have to be in Free-Wheel mode before you can engage OD?
• • Can you use OD in either mode?
• • Does it hurt the OD tranny to not be in Free-wheel mode? Meaning, just leave it in regular mode and not in Freewheel?
• • Why use Freewheel at all if you can drive in either mode?

[mongocanfly]

Welcome...
post some pics of this so we can see what your talking about...

[h2000fb]

OK, here is a pic to go with the questions in Post 1.

This is what the underside of the tranny looks like that shows the Solenoid and freewheel shift arm. I call it freewheel shift arm because I do not know the proper name!

As you can see, the arm already has cable to it but to get the arm to its full NO Freewheel position, the pull cable goes out MUSH to for. However, I would think cable would be pulled to get into the freewheel position instead of pushed in all the way. Wouldn't 'out' be the freewheel position?

And the screws where I think power goes has never been unscrewed since painting of trans.

[mongocanfly]

might try this guy....http://hermtheoverdriveguy.com/overdrive-types-2

[mongocanfly]

not sure but google borg warner r10, r11 and see what you get....theres some manuals on the net...and a lot of info
do you know which one you have...should have a number on the right side...r10 or r11

[1project2many]

Lets see if we can answer a few questions by describing the original OD operation. The OD unit is a planetary gearset added to the back of a three speed transmission. Overdrive is electrically shifted using a combination of speed (governor switch) and throttle position (microswitch) based controls in combination with a freewheel clutch.

When starting from a stop, the driver accelerates normally. As the vehicle reaches the governor cut in speed, the governor contacts close applying power to the shift solenoid. The shift solenoid operates an engagement pawl which is also mechanically blocked from engaging overdrive. The overdrive shift is left in a state of "waiting" until throttle pressure is decreased slightly and the vehicle is not accelerating. When this condition is reached the freewheel clutch activates, the blocking mechanism releases the overdrive pawl, and overdrive engages.

When the driver needs additional acceleration the accelerator is pressed down. At some point the accelerator pedal will operate a switch which opens power to the shift solenoid. This removes spring pressure from the pawl but torque on the driveline due to acceleration prevents the shift from occurring. Again this sets up a "waiting" state. The completion of the shift is allowed by temporarily grounding the ignition coil and shutting off the engine. Once the shift is completed the ground circuit is opened and the engine will resume normal operation.

The freewheel clutch is required to allow shifting in and out of OD. Non-freewheeling operation is a special case. The freewheel clutch does not allow a reverse drive to be applied to the driveline, and it does not allow the rear axle to drive the engine. With normal operation and freewheel clutch operating, the engine and transmission are disconnected from the driveline when coasting, when reversing, and when going downhill. If you need engine braking you may pull the handle or cable to "lock out" the freewheel clutch. In the original configuration this opens a control switch and removes power from the shift solenoid which in turn disables the overdrive. When shifting into reverse the shift rail is designed to automatically move the freewheel clutch into lockout and will also open the lockout switch.

Your shift solenoid will have two terminals. One terminal connects to the solenoid winding to engage the solenoid. The other terminal connects to ground whenever the solenoid has engaged OD. Applying power to the windings will apply pressure to the overdrive pawl but it's possible that the shift will not complete unless transmission input and output shaft speeds are different.

Note that the BW overdrive was used in 6V and 12V vehicles. IMO you should do research to determine which solenoid is on your transmission before applying 12V for testing. This may help:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...overdrive.html

Overdrive manual from Borg Warner in HTML covers most non-GM applications and has some test procedures:
http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...rive/index.htm

Same manual in a single PDF:
http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/...riveManual.pdf

LOTS of BW overdrive tech:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...tech-tips.html

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...overdrive.html

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...verdrives.html

Basic OD wiring diagram from BW:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...ve-wiring.html

These days the transmissions are far more common than the electrical switches and controls originally used for semi-automatic operation of overdrive. In many cases people installing these transmissions opt not to duplicate OE wiring or to supplement OE wiring by providing full manual control of the OD solenoid. Full manual control allows engaging OD in all forward gears (never start out in 1st OD).

This paper talks about using OD in "split shift" mode:
http://www.potomacbird.com/pctc/Publ...s/bwwiring.pdf
Note that the wiring diagram is very hard to view in the above PDF.

Here is some discussion of "split shift" operation on an old F*rd site:
http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?t=1483

Additional information can be found by searching for BW R10, Borg Warner R10, Borg Warner R-10, Borg Warner R-11, and many other variations.

[h2000fb]

SUPER info guys. This will certainly keep me busy figuring out what all I am m missing and the best way to proceed. This is a lot to digest.

To start with, I do not see these under the hood: "...(governor switch) and throttle position (microswitch)..."

Though not stock setup, I am thinking is it still possible.

Thanks!

[1project2many]

Are you sure it's ALWAYS in freewheeling mode? As in you are unable to reverse the truck? If reverse works then please see below (from a previous post).

Originally Posted by 1project2many

Lets see if we can answer a few questions by describing the original OD operation. The OD unit is a planetary gearset added to the back of a three speed transmission. Overdrive is electrically shifted using a combination of speed (governor switch) and throttle position (microswitch) based controls in combination with a freewheel clutch.

When starting from a stop, the driver accelerates normally. As the vehicle reaches the governor cut in speed, the governor contacts close applying power to the shift solenoid. The shift solenoid operates an engagement pawl which is also mechanically blocked from engaging overdrive. The overdrive shift is left in a state of "waiting" until throttle pressure is decreased slightly and the vehicle is not accelerating. When this condition is reached the freewheel clutch activates, the blocking mechanism releases the overdrive pawl, and overdrive engages.

When the driver needs additional acceleration the accelerator is pressed down. At some point the accelerator pedal will operate a switch which opens power to the shift solenoid. This removes spring pressure from the pawl but torque on the driveline due to acceleration prevents the shift from occurring. Again this sets up a "waiting" state. The completion of the shift is allowed by temporarily grounding the ignition coil and shutting off the engine. Once the shift is completed the ground circuit is opened and the engine will resume normal operation.

The freewheel clutch is required to allow shifting in and out of OD. Non-freewheeling operation is a special case. The freewheel clutch does not allow a reverse drive to be applied to the driveline, and it does not allow the rear axle to drive the engine. With normal operation and freewheel clutch operating, the engine and transmission are disconnected from the driveline when coasting, when reversing, and when going downhill. If you need engine braking you may pull the handle or cable to "lock out" the freewheel clutch. In the original configuration this opens a control switch and removes power from the shift solenoid which in turn disables the overdrive. When shifting into reverse the shift rail is designed to automatically move the freewheel clutch into lockout and will also open the lockout switch.

Your shift solenoid will have two terminals. One terminal connects to the solenoid winding to engage the solenoid. The other terminal connects to ground whenever the solenoid has engaged OD. Applying power to the windings will apply pressure to the overdrive pawl but it's possible that the shift will not complete unless transmission input and output shaft speeds are different.

Note that the BW overdrive was used in 6V and 12V vehicles. IMO you should do research to determine which solenoid is on your transmission before applying 12V for testing. This may help:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...overdrive.html

Overdrive manual from Borg Warner in HTML covers most non-GM applications and has some test procedures:
http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...rive/index.htm

Same manual in a single PDF:
http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/...riveManual.pdf

LOTS of BW overdrive tech:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...tech-tips.html

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...overdrive.html

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...verdrives.html

Basic OD wiring diagram from BW:
https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...ve-wiring.html

These days the transmissions are far more common than the electrical switches and controls originally used for semi-automatic operation of overdrive. In many cases people installing these transmissions opt not to duplicate OE wiring or to supplement OE wiring by providing full manual control of the OD solenoid. Full manual control allows engaging OD in all forward gears (never start out in 1st OD).

This paper talks about using OD in "split shift" mode:
http://www.potomacbird.com/pctc/Publ...s/bwwiring.pdf
Note that the wiring diagram is very hard to view in the above PDF.

Here is some discussion of "split shift" operation on an old F*rd site:
http://ford-mel-engine.com/viewtopic.php?t=1483

Additional information can be found by searching for BW R10, Borg Warner R10, Borg Warner R-10, Borg Warner R-11, and many other variations.

[h2000fb]

With engine OFF, the truck will roll forward when in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear. It will not roll forward in reverse. Obviously, this is under 28mph.

When I take off in first gear, I can just start rolling and let off the accelerator. The truck will coast in 1st gear at 5 mph.

My question: if I get the kickdown switch and relay and hook them up, will I be damaging the transmission by running it this way? Being in freewheeling mode all the time does not bother me. I am used to it.

I am guessing if it is not supposed to work this way, then either the governor is bad/stuck or something in the tranny is bad.

[1project2many]

The governor switch, if equipped, is on the transmission on the opposite side of the shift solenoid. It threads into the transmission and is driven by the speedometer cable drive gear. The unit pictured below is a Ford part which has a fill plug next to the governor switch. I am not aware of any GM transmissions which have a fill plug in the same location.

[h2000fb]

We are going to put this up on the rack tomorrow night and conduct a discovering mission on what I have and what's missing.

Is there a mark or indicator labeling the solenoid as 6 or 12 vdc?

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by h2000fb

We are going to put this up on the rack tomorrow night and conduct a discovering mission on what I have and what's missing.

Is there a mark or indicator labeling the solenoid as 6 or 12 vdc?

Please spend time looking through the information previously supplied.

[mongocanfly]

https://www.vintageautogarage.com/v/...gram-v1.00.pdf

[mongocanfly]

https://fifthaveinternetgarage.blogs...tech-tips.html

[mick53]

Wow that's a lot of stuff! Makes me glad I got a TKO 600

[h2000fb]

After reading through all this information, I think I know what I am looking for when we get it up on the rack.

- Which tranny is it, though it does not seem to appear it matters much as far as hookup.

- Try to ID if the solenoid is 6 or 12 vdc.

- Make certain the governor is intact with wire.

- look for kick-down switch under the hood

- Look for relay under the hood or dash

Thanks again for all the info.

And yes, it does sound like a lot of stuff! However, just bit off a piece at a time and it should be easy.

We will see!

[h2000fb]

So looking at this, there is no OFF switch so it never turns off unless I pull out the cable to disable the freewheel clutch.

At that point, it is off. Correct or No?

[1project2many]

The original system is always "on" unless you shift to reverse or pull the cable.

[h2000fb]

How do I tell if my solenoid is 6 or 12 VDC?

• Is it marked 6vdc or 12vdc? Hopefull.
• If not marked, can you ohm the coil and get a resistance that proves to be 12vdc?
• If not, I guess I can apply 6v and see if it clicks? If so, it's 6vdc.
• If no click with 6vdc, then try 12? If it clicks it 12vdc!

Sorry to keep bugging everyone, but trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before we get under it tomorrow evening. Don't want to burn anything out that may be good either!

Thanks again for all help!

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by h2000fb

How do I tell if my solenoid is 6 or 12 VDC?

• Is it marked 6vdc or 12vdc? Hopefull.
• If not marked, can you ohm the coil and get a resistance that proves to be 12vdc?
• If not, I guess I can apply 6v and see if it clicks? If so, it's 6vdc.
• If no click with 6vdc, then try 12? If it clicks it 12vdc!

Sorry to keep bugging everyone, but trying to gain as much knowledge as possible before we get under it tomorrow evening. Don't want to burn anything out that may be good either!

Thanks again for all help!

Hmm...

Start by looking for a part number at the end of the solenoid. I posted a link which shows a solenoid with the number and also has a picture of a page from an old Motor's Manual which lists solenoid voltage by part number. If you are unable to read the number, measure and record the resistance of the coil and report back (Hint: remember that one terminal will be completely open).

You may not hear a click from the solenoid. Remember that I mentioned above the solenoid only puts spring pressure on the pawl. The pawl may not shift into position unless the input or outut shaft is turned.

I would not blindly apply 12V to this component. Replacements seem expensive.

[mongocanfly]

what kind of battery does the truck have...??? 6v or 12v
other things to look at are bulbs and alternator
more than likely whatever your system is (6v or 12v) that is what you have

[h2000fb]

The truck has a 12vdc system. However, do not know what the OD solenoid is. Worst-case scenario: I have a 50/50 chance of getting right!

[mongocanfly]

that may be why it isn't hooked up, truck is 12v, solenoid is 6v

[mongocanfly]

get ahold of herm the of guy...he might can tell you

[h2000fb]

After putting the truck up on the lift, here is what I found tonite:

Solenoid Part Number: 1119772
Looking up that part number, it appears the solenoid was a part for 1955 Chevrolet Passenger Cars. So, if I am not mistaken, I am pretty certain that means 12vdc!

Would everyone agree with that?


Other info:

The Overdrive unit: R10H-1
Under those numbers: WG DIV
Little screwed on plate said: 3-22

Other numbers on Tranny: 8645122
Other numbers on Tranny: T02953 (last digit may not be 3)