Wagon wheels on a K20 - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Vintage Windmills · 11-02-2011, 04:57 PM

Anyone got pics? I was wondering how they'd look, especially black ones. I'll start but hoping for more pics since these tires aren't too aggressive.

Vintage Windmills · 11-02-2011, 06:30 PM

C'mon guys not all at once form a line please. Oh well, specialK will hopefully see this. I think he had some on a highlander K20 if i remember correctly

BLAZERMAN · 11-02-2011, 06:50 PM

Heres one of my favorites...theres lots of different ways to go wheel wise these days but I cant imagine anything looking more "Right" for this truck.

YBNORML · 11-03-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLAZERMAN

Heres one of my favorites...theres lots of different ways to go wheel wise these days but I cant imagine anything looking more "Right" for this truck.

I'm not really a 4x4 guy, but I would totally rock that puppy

that is one awesome looking truck.
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Vintage Windmills · 11-02-2011, 06:56 PM

Yep, thats specialk's! Those are pretty wide rims!

**Dieselwrencher** · 11-02-2011, 08:00 PM

I love that truck, it just screams rip something up!

LakeAnna · 11-02-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieselwrencher

I love that truck, it just screams rip something up!

What he said

72 K20 · 11-02-2011, 09:35 PM

Here's mine

SS Tim · 11-03-2011, 01:29 AM

That your "new" K20? Funny looked and looked then realized how few pictures I had of wagon wheels. But here are some you might like!

**Dieselwrencher** · 11-03-2011, 12:50 AM

Nice truck 72 K20!

rsavage · 11-03-2011, 06:58 AM

I am sort of torn on whether to refinish and put the 15X10 wagon wheels back on that came on my Blazer or use the set of 15X8 rallyes I had blasted. It is a timely post. The white wagon wheels look right on these year 4X4's - maybe better than the argent rallyes?

**special-K** · 11-03-2011, 07:04 AM

It's funny about wagon wheels. I was probably one of the first bunch who got sick of looking at them. They were going on everything...even cars! At first it was dune buggies and 4wds and it gave a bold strong look,as well as looking custom made,without trying to be pretty. But,they ended up where no one liked them,it seemed,and looking back they really were a part of the beginnings of big tire/lifted trucks. I had that unrestored/original paint & trim Highlander that I redid all the suspension/brakes/steering on and needed tires. I had sets of 9.75 x 16.5 OEM-type and aluminum slots and 6.25 x 16.5 Vectors but needed tires. I also had two other '72 K/20s at the time and the plan was to get at least three sets of wheels & tires I could interchange...different treads for different terrain/use. Money was kinda tight and the Highlander was ready to roll. 4 Wheel Parts Wholesalers was offering their buy 3 get one free deal but only with their Pro-Comps which only come in 16" and I had no wheels. I thought the round hole white steelies would look great,but they were a good bit more than wagon wheels. I gut the Xterrains for a better hiway tire that would be good for the beach. I thought about it and figured the truck would look perfect being a time worn truck with wagon wheels. It would look like a survivor was always that way since the '70s. Why spend a bunch of money on fancy wheels just to make a truck look like it needs new paint and trim?
That thing was 100% truck and I miss it. It hauled and,yes,ripped it up (locker rear/Tru-Trac front). Matter of fact,my buddy who bought it was out ripping it up out in a field in that huge snow we had back in Feb '10 and hooked the passenger mirror on a tree because he was in a snow blind power slide. He went home and started pulling it apart he was so bummed out. It's going through a restoration now and will be Be-A-U-tiful...and be running wide OEM style w/caps.

Vintage Windmills · 11-03-2011, 09:34 AM

Thanks all for the pics, I've got a set with some rust spots, think I'll have them powdercoated white now after seeing these pics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

They were going on everything...even cars! At first it was dune buggies and 4wds

Do you know what year (approx) they first became available?
Thanks for all the other info!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SS Tim

That your "new" K20?

Nope, I almost bought that one though. About the cleanest mostly original 69/70 I could find after searching almost a year. If I didn't like blue so much I would have bought it. I think its still for sale if anyone is interested.

SS Tim · 11-03-2011, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vintage Windmills

Do you know what year (approx) they first became available?
Thanks for all the other info!

Off the top of my head I was going to say '73. But did some checking and Jackman Wheels trademark "J" is listed as first used in Nov.'74. Here is a typical ad dated '77.
And for the record I to am sick to death of these things. Right now the only set I own are holding up my '75 IH D200. They will be replaced with stock looking wheels. No wait, come to think of it the utility trailer has a set as well.

**special-K** · 11-03-2011, 07:28 AM

Hey 72 K20,that's a nice one!

I just saw SS Tim posted my old green truck (yes,that's medium olive under there). That was a morning after shot and what a night it was! Now that one I used to really rip it up with. Anyway...those wheels are 10 x 15s and the tires are 14.50/37 Armstrong Tru Tracs. That picture is 30 years old (talk about being dated...sheesh)

VW,you asked to see black wagon wheels and I don't seem to have any pictures. At one point I painted those wheels on the green truck black. What it does is just makes them a black wheel. What I mean is they could be any wheel till you look real close. They'd look like any other wheel going down the road. You lose the whole contrast of white with alternating triangles. So,if no one can come up with pictures just look for K/20s with wide black wheels and you'll get a good idea of how they'll look.

SS Tim · 11-03-2011, 09:15 AM

These might help some. But I feel black makes the tires look like blobs. If you don't want white then a body color or contrast would wake things up. Dodge and Jeep did it to good effect.

**Dieselwrencher** · 11-03-2011, 03:11 PM

I wish I had some pics of my old 70 witgh wagon wheels. It always looked good with them.

VintageWindmills, is that this year's snow? If so, you can keep it up there!!!!!!!!

Vintage Windmills · 11-03-2011, 04:04 PM

Nope, that was taken in Idaho last winter of a truck I almost bought. Just wasn't too into the color of that one. I prefer blue or possibly red or yellow

webfoot · 11-03-2011, 04:13 PM

One or more of my POs must have loved them because I have 2 sets, one is on the truck now and there is a whole set of skinny studded tires on chrome wagon wheels.

Going to go back to stock steelies 16 x 6 with caps.

Solver · 11-03-2011, 07:12 PM

Not a K20 but longhorn with wagons- I also mounted new style caps

**special-K** · 11-04-2011, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solver

Not a K20 but longhorn with wagons- I also mounted new style caps

Now that's an example of wagon wheels looking right...and classy.

SS Tim · 11-04-2011, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

Now that's an example of wagon wheels looking right...and classy.

Good call... Agreed, those caps really change the whole look. But then most have center caps just this side of a coffee can!
Still though, I think spoke wheels look best in a contrasting or complementary color. Stark white is sometimes just too white. Adding a trim ring works as well.

**Dieselwrencher** · 11-03-2011, 07:58 PM

Very nice Longhorn Solver!

**special-K** · 11-03-2011, 08:41 PM

I guess it was around 73-74. Here's another Jackman ad with Deal's Wheels artwork. This is once they came out with other styles and "colors"! Notice the tires resemble Gates Commandos:

Not meaning to get side tracked on vintage off road tires. Just wanted to show these wagon wheels "could" look good:

1972RedNeck · 11-03-2011, 09:07 PM

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Here ya' go.

11-02-2011, 04:57 PM	#1
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Wagon wheels on a K20 Anyone got pics? I was wondering how they'd look, especially black ones. I'll start but hoping for more pics since these tires aren't too aggressive. Attached Images __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

11-02-2011, 06:30 PM	#2
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 C'mon guys not all at once form a line please. Oh well, specialK will hopefully see this. I think he had some on a highlander K20 if i remember correctly __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

11-02-2011, 06:50 PM	#3
BLAZERMAN Currently Blazerless Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: St. Joseph Mo. Posts: 4,828	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Heres one of my favorites...theres lots of different ways to go wheel wise these days but I cant imagine anything looking more "Right" for this truck. Attached Images __________________ 1972 C/30 133" W.B. C&C 1970 GMC 3500 157" W.B. single wheel C&C

11-02-2011, 06:56 PM	#5
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Yep, thats specialk's! Those are pretty wide rims! __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

11-02-2011, 08:00 PM	#6
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,139	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 I love that truck, it just screams rip something up! __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

11-02-2011, 09:35 PM	#8
72 K20 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Brandon,Iowa Posts: 391	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Here's mine

11-03-2011, 01:29 AM	#9
SS Tim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Edwards, CA Posts: 7,503	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 That your "new" K20? Funny looked and looked then realized how few pictures I had of wagon wheels. But here are some you might like! Attached Images __________________ Thanks, Tim * VIN/Model Decoders * Power Team Charts (engine/transmission/gear ratio) * Post Your Pickup SPID Blazer SPID Suburban/Panel SPID * RTFM ... Read The Factory Manuals... download 'em here Highlanders Do you have a 1972 Plaid Pickup? Plaid Blazer ** Plaid Suburban

11-03-2011, 12:50 AM	#10
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,139	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Nice truck 72 K20! __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

11-03-2011, 06:58 AM	#11
rsavage Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Alden NY Posts: 2,705	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 I am sort of torn on whether to refinish and put the 15X10 wagon wheels back on that came on my Blazer or use the set of 15X8 rallyes I had blasted. It is a timely post. The white wagon wheels look right on these year 4X4's - maybe better than the argent rallyes? __________________ 1961 C1 Corvette 1959 El Camino 350 TPI, 9" 4 w disc 69 Blazer K5 - sold July '20 2021 Durango RT 5.7

11-03-2011, 07:04 AM	#12
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,852	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 It's funny about wagon wheels. I was probably one of the first bunch who got sick of looking at them. They were going on everything...even cars! At first it was dune buggies and 4wds and it gave a bold strong look,as well as looking custom made,without trying to be pretty. But,they ended up where no one liked them,it seemed,and looking back they really were a part of the beginnings of big tire/lifted trucks. I had that unrestored/original paint & trim Highlander that I redid all the suspension/brakes/steering on and needed tires. I had sets of 9.75 x 16.5 OEM-type and aluminum slots and 6.25 x 16.5 Vectors but needed tires. I also had two other '72 K/20s at the time and the plan was to get at least three sets of wheels & tires I could interchange...different treads for different terrain/use. Money was kinda tight and the Highlander was ready to roll. 4 Wheel Parts Wholesalers was offering their buy 3 get one free deal but only with their Pro-Comps which only come in 16" and I had no wheels. I thought the round hole white steelies would look great,but they were a good bit more than wagon wheels. I gut the Xterrains for a better hiway tire that would be good for the beach. I thought about it and figured the truck would look perfect being a time worn truck with wagon wheels. It would look like a survivor was always that way since the '70s. Why spend a bunch of money on fancy wheels just to make a truck look like it needs new paint and trim? That thing was 100% truck and I miss it. It hauled and,yes,ripped it up (locker rear/Tru-Trac front). Matter of fact,my buddy who bought it was out ripping it up out in a field in that huge snow we had back in Feb '10 and hooked the passenger mirror on a tree because he was in a snow blind power slide. He went home and started pulling it apart he was so bummed out. It's going through a restoration now and will be Be-A-U-tiful...and be running wide OEM style w/caps. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

11-03-2011, 07:28 AM	#15
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,852	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Hey 72 K20,that's a nice one! I just saw SS Tim posted my old green truck (yes,that's medium olive under there). That was a morning after shot and what a night it was! Now that one I used to really rip it up with. Anyway...those wheels are 10 x 15s and the tires are 14.50/37 Armstrong Tru Tracs. That picture is 30 years old (talk about being dated...sheesh) VW,you asked to see black wagon wheels and I don't seem to have any pictures. At one point I painted those wheels on the green truck black. What it does is just makes them a black wheel. What I mean is they could be any wheel till you look real close. They'd look like any other wheel going down the road. You lose the whole contrast of white with alternating triangles. So,if no one can come up with pictures just look for K/20s with wide black wheels and you'll get a good idea of how they'll look. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

11-03-2011, 09:15 AM	#16
SS Tim Registered User Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Edwards, CA Posts: 7,503	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 These might help some. But I feel black makes the tires look like blobs. If you don't want white then a body color or contrast would wake things up. Dodge and Jeep did it to good effect. Attached Images __________________ Thanks, Tim * VIN/Model Decoders * Power Team Charts (engine/transmission/gear ratio) * Post Your Pickup SPID Blazer SPID Suburban/Panel SPID * RTFM ... Read The Factory Manuals... download 'em here Highlanders Do you have a 1972 Plaid Pickup? Plaid Blazer ** Plaid Suburban

11-03-2011, 03:11 PM	#17
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,139	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 I wish I had some pics of my old 70 witgh wagon wheels. It always looked good with them. VintageWindmills, is that this year's snow? If so, you can keep it up there!!!!!!!! __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

11-03-2011, 04:04 PM	#18
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Nope, that was taken in Idaho last winter of a truck I almost bought. Just wasn't too into the color of that one. I prefer blue or possibly red or yellow __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

11-03-2011, 04:13 PM	#19
webfoot Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Hermiston, OR Posts: 947	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 One or more of my POs must have loved them because I have 2 sets, one is on the truck now and there is a whole set of skinny studded tires on chrome wagon wheels. Going to go back to stock steelies 16 x 6 with caps. __________________ *Running in place gets you nowhere fast.* -me 1968 GTO 4-spd covnvertible 1970 K-20 4-speed, factory AC.



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11-03-2011, 07:12 PM	#20
Solver Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Location: Storm Lake, Ia Posts: 1,449	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Not a K20 but longhorn with wagons- I also mounted new style caps Attached Images __________________ 1972 Cheyenne Super 20 LWB-Blue 1972 Cheyenne Super 10 LWB-Black 1972 Cheyenne Super 10 LWB-Red 1972 Cheyenne Super 10 LWB-green 1972 GMC 4x4 LWB-White 1971 Cheyenne 10 LWB-Ochre 1971 Cheyenne 20 Longhorn-Copper 1971 Cheyenne 20 Longhorn-Black 1969 Custom 10 LWB-lt blue 1968 GMC 3/4 ton-green 1968 1/2 ton swb stepside-silver 1967 Chevrolet CST 10 LWB-green 1967 Chevrolet custom 20 LWB-Maroon

11-03-2011, 07:58 PM	#23
Dieselwrencher 6>8 Plugless........ Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Prairie City, Ia Posts: 17,139	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 Very nice Longhorn Solver! __________________ Ryan 1972 Chevy Longhorn K30 Cheyenne Super, 359 Inline 6 cylinder, Auto Trans, Tilt, Diesel Tach/Vach, Buckets, Rare Rear 4-link and air ride option Build Thread 1972 GMC Sierra Grande Longhorn 4x4 1972 Chevy Cheyenne Super K20 Long Step side tilt, tach, tow hooks, AC, 350 4 speed 1972 C10 Suburban Custom Deluxe 1969 Chevy milk truck 1971 Camaro RS 5.3 BTR STG3 Cam Super T10 1940 Ford 354 Hemi 46RH Ford 9" on air ride huge project *Tired of spark plugs? Check this out.*

11-03-2011, 08:41 PM	#24
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,852	Re: Wagon wheels on a K20 I guess it was around 73-74. Here's another Jackman ad with Deal's Wheels artwork. This is once they came out with other styles and "colors"! Notice the tires resemble Gates Commandos: Not meaning to get side tracked on vintage off road tires. Just wanted to show these wagon wheels "could" look good: __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ Last edited by special-K; 11-03-2011 at 08:50 PM.

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