Sloppy 4-speed stick!

[Hooligan71]

My 71 has a 250 with a 4-speed/ granny gear tranny. The stick is very sloppy with a lot of play in every direction. Is there away to fix this or should i replce the shifter? If so which one and where? Also can I get rid of the Granny gear? If so how? Replace gear in rearend? I would like to cruise this truck down the freeway but a long trip seems questionable with the current gearing? Any ideas guys? I love this board, thanks for all your help.

[Davetopay]

Sounds like the SM465 trans. Every one I have ever seen has a sloppy stick. I am going to assume your truck is a 4x2, so if you really wanted to get rid of the low gear in 1st, you could swap to a car style 4spd...but I don't know the specifics of making that work with the 250 in your truck as far as input shaft lengths, clutch parts, and trans mounts.

Personally I like the 465 trans for its strength, and the clever use of it "reversed OD" gearing. GM put a super low gear in 1st so they could run a taller axle ratio and preserve some highway economy with out resorting to an overdrive gear cluster in the trans. Unless I have a load in my truck I treat it like a 3 speed. In fact my shift knob is labeled L-1-2-3....take from it what you will.

[BLAZERMAN]

Try this, it worked for me. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...465/index.html

[Hooligan71]

I'll take my stick apart today and see what i can do for that sloppiness. Anyway to help with the gearing problem without swapping tranny? Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

[1969 GMC]

Originally Posted by Hooligan71

I'll take my stick apart today and see what i can do for that sloppiness. Anyway to help with the gearing problem without swapping tranny? Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted.

the gearing problem you talk about is something shared by ALL transmissions with a 1:1 top gear. Which is 99% of the trannies these trucks came with from the factory...three on the trees, SM420, SM465, NP435, TH350, PG, TH400, etc all have the same top gear, which means the same rpm at speed. I think some people think because the 465 has granny low it has a somehow different final drive ratio than any of the others..but it doesnt.


You need overdrive (transmission or gear vendors type add-on) to reduce the rpm, or to change the rearend gears to a taller (numerically lower) ratio.

[vectorit]

Originally Posted by BLAZERMAN

Try this, it worked for me. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...465/index.html

^I did this and the shifter is nice and snug now.

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by BLAZERMAN

Try this, it worked for me. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...465/index.html

Originally Posted by vectorit

^I did this and the shifter is nice and snug now.

Welding the cracked tack welds and adding some weld to the pin seat groves made a huge difference in Old Yeller. Be aware of his caution about the oil in the steel. Mine oosed oil non-stop while I was welding on it but it didn't cause any problems.

[KrazyAz]

I had sloppy stick problems with 3 spd and bought a new stick....didnt last long .Next round I bought a name brand stick that included a much better bracket kit.It lasted till I went to automatic(Approx 3 yrs)

[69GMCLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Davetopay

Sounds like the SM465 trans. Every one I have ever seen has a sloppy stick. I am going to assume your truck is a 4x2, so if you really wanted to get rid of the low gear in 1st, you could swap to a car style 4spd...but I don't know the specifics of making that work with the 250 in your truck as far as input shaft lengths, clutch parts, and trans mounts.

Personally I like the 465 trans for its strength, and the clever use of it "reversed OD" gearing. GM put a super low gear in 1st so they could run a taller axle ratio and preserve some highway economy with out resorting to an overdrive gear cluster in the trans. Unless I have a load in my truck I treat it like a 3 speed. In fact my shift knob is labeled L-1-2-3....take from it what you will.

Actually, you have an SM420. All the 465's were labeled 1-2-3-4.

Also, as stated above, don't worry about the play. You've probably only got 300,000 miles left in the tranny...

[MudBug]

Thanks for the offer but I like the 250 Thermostat housings.Easiest way to check the rear ratio is to jack up the rearend,Pick a reference mark on the tire and pinion yoke,Turn the tire one turn and count how many times to pinion yoke turns.You might have to block the opposite side wheel so only one side will turn.If it turns 4 times its a 4.11,if 3 3/4 times its a 3.75. if the factory stick in inthe glove box it might show what ratio you have.

[Hooligan71]

Still need to figure out my rear gearing.

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by Hooligan71

Still need to figure out my rear gearing.

What size tires are you running, and what rpm are you at when cruising at say... 60? You must be in your last gear for this... be it 4th or if you have a 3 speed, 3rd.
Tell me that, and I will tell you your rear gearing.

Edit:
That is... along as your speedometer is calibrated.

If you do know your rear gearing and tire size, I can tell you what speed you should be going at a specific rpm (or what rpm you should be at, at a certain speed) so that you can check you speedometer.

I used to have 31 10.50 r15's, and then switched to 255 50 r15's, and now my speed is correct... with the bigger tires, I was speeding and didn't even know it... Thought I was doing 60, but was really going 73...

[68C15]

are you sure the 250 will pull the truck at speed with a taller gear? mine was a dog when I switched from the 3.54 to a 3.08

[Hooligan71]

Pulled the boot off and found the 2 pins that hold the collar on the spring and ball down out a bit. Also the small roll pin that holds the snout to the shift rail end is very loose and seems to be to small of a roll pin. I am going to get a new pin and see what happens. Thanks so far. now just to get the gearing right!

[Hooligan71]

here is 2 pics of my shifter in the close up you'll see a roll pin holding that end on. In the link given in earlier replies shows a solid end. could I weld that end on solid? That should get rid of some slop as that end moves around 1/4" in all directions. I will be welding up the rest of the points (pin seat grooves) so why not there too? didn't notice any cracks in the tack welds but will be welding those as well. Thanks for the help..

[Old Yeller 1970]

Originally Posted by Hooligan71

here is 2 pics of my shifter in the close up you'll see a roll pin holding that end on. In the link given in earlier replies shows a solid end. could I weld that end on solid? That should get rid of some slop as that end moves around 1/4" in all directions. I will be welding up the rest of the points (pin seat grooves) so why not there too? didn't notice any cracks in the tack welds but will be welding those as well. Thanks for the help..

The link just shows a diagram not the actual shifter. Mine has the same roll pin holding on the end. I didn't weld that part since he didn't but doing the other stuff tightened mine up just right. That part probably needs to stay unwelded. Also, I bet your tack welds are cracked you just can't see it. Mine were cracked but were really, really hard to see where. They may also be cracked loose from the surface and won't show a line.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Ive welded those pieces together on a lot of them. It solves the problem from there on out.

[Hooligan71]

I figured that would help alot of the slop there is alot of movement there!
Thanks for the help

[Hooligan71]

OK.. Shifter is done. welded up the spot welds and the end pieces. Also cleaned up the grooves for the pins. Shifter is very smooth and no more slop.. Thanks for all the help!! Will post pics soon.

[MudBug]

What rear ratio do you have in the truck now.The truck I had the 292 in had a 3.73 in it and it buzzed the engine pretty good at about 70-75.If you can find the whole rear-end with the gear you need will be the easiest to swap.Did you ever find a thermostat housing?

[toddtheodd]

I think you should just put an automatic in it.
Come on over, and I'll switch my TH350 for your SM465. I just need everything to make mine a standard, and you can have the tranny, lines, cooler, and torque converter. No more sloppiness in your shifting.

Seriously though... I hate my automatic, but can't afford to buy everything I need, so am hoping to find somebody that wants to get rid of their standard...

[Hooligan71]

Mudd, Yes, I found a Housing. Kind of a funny story. Blocked the port on the old housing and was going to use it when I went to tighten up the outlet to the housing I torked on it too hard and broke both pieces. I remembered an old friend had a yard here and he sold me both pieces for $20.00. I'll see if he has a 292 housing for you next time I stop by. How can I tell what gears are in this rearend? I think it's stock. I tell you what though my shifter sure is smooth now!

Todd, If I ever get a 350 V8 for the truck I'll let you know and we can swap out parts. It will probably be a while yet though.. Thanks.