The more I learn...the more puzzled I become!

[Beach-Burban]

First off, I'd like to thank all the members of this board. I've been a member for just a year, but I had been following this group for about 5 years prior to joining...just soaking up the experiences of others and using that knowledge to purchase my '72 Suburban. I took my time as I've only owned the Beach-Burban for 2 1/2 years, and feel as though I knew the problem areas well enough to make an informed decision when I did pull the trigger! Ha! One can NEVER tell what surprises the previous owner has left for you to discover! Now I'm not knocking my choice (as the starting point for my project was much better than so many others that I have seen)...or the PO, who incidentally, was the original owner, but as I began to really dig-in, I uncovered "oddities" that have me either scratching my head or clutching my chest! That will be the focus of my thread...and if you would like to follow along, that would be great!

One of the first things I noticed the day I test drove my Burb was how incredibly hard it rode going down the street. It wasn't too springy and felt as if the shocks were doing an okay job of dampening...but there didn't seem to be any isolation between the body and the road, so I figured the body cushions would need to be replaced. I was more interested in the condition of the metal, and even though I could tell that some ancient bodywork had been done, overall, the metal quality made me smile! Initially, I only found a couple places where body filler was applied a little too generously to some dents, but as far as actual body rot, I only saw a small amount along the bottom edge of the rear hatch and three "quarter-size" bubbled areas at the very bottom of the rear wheel wells...ahead of the wheel and behind the wheel on the drivers side, but only behind the wheel on the passenger side because the previously mentioned bodywork included the area ahead of the wheel. Of course with picking at it and driving with bad body mounts, those bubbled areas have opened up a bit more than "quarter size"! Eventually, the old bodywork will be stripped and inspected...so time will tell...but I expected some metal work would be required!

[04ls1gto]

Post the specs on your Burb and a few more pics. My stock springs were pretty badly collapsed when I got it. Post a few pics of the rear suspension so we can help ya figure it out

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by 04ls1gto

Post the specs on your Burb and a few more pics. My stock springs were pretty badly collapsed when I got it. Post a few pics of the rear suspension so we can help ya figure it out

04ls1gto...it's a '72 C/10 9 passenger (3/4 ton front suspension) and has had the original 350 replaced with a 454. To date, the shocks are all new but the springs are original...but now that I have replaced the body mounts, the ride is much more how it should be! Thought about doing the springs...not sure if I will do them right away, but thanks for the interest!

Woody

[Beach-Burban]

Now I didn't start thinking about how to make it "pretty" when I drove it 80 miles home from the desert (had been "Non-Op" for four years)...I thought about how to make it road-worthy...so luckily, I have a buddy who owns a local repair shop, and he was enthusiastic about the project! Jerry started as our family mechanic over 30 years ago, so yes, I do pay him...but he takes care of us like a friend would, and keeps me involved with anything he does that I can't do by myself. He is quick to tell me how to do something...or whether I should or shouldn't attempt it myself!

As I was still employed at that time, I left the Burb with Jerry so he could assess what it would take to make it dependable and safe to drive. It stayed at his shop for nearly two months as he only worked on it when things were slow. Jerry knew that I wanted all the drips sealed up, so that required the TH400 to come out and the 454 partially disassembled. The bottom end was sparkling clean and turned out to be a four bolt main block (nice to know) but the heads are the small "peanut port" low horse power style. Since this isn't a "race truck", I decided I liked the torque specs...and these heads are more efficient in regards to gas economy (if you can even use that term when talking about a big block!). The piston wear pattern showed little mileage had been put on it and really needed no attention (that's a story all on its' own)...but still I was advised to have the heads gone through, which a specialty shop took care of for us. Surprisingly, there weren't any other major mechanical issues...but a lot of small things that you would expect, such as "most anything rubber" needing to be replaced! The tires were a good example, as the date codes showed that the fronts were from 1995 and the rears were from 1980...and I was very lucky that I made it home the day I bought it! I started shopping for tires and rims while Jerry replaced hoses and belts...plus a sundry of normal routine maintenance items to get a baseline going. Jerry was impressed with some areas that we thought would need an overhaul, but found that someone had previously done a nice job with the brakes and front end components before parking it four years ago.

I hadn't met the original owner when purchasing the vehicle as the sale was being handled by a family friend. The owner was in his eighties and not doing too well health-wise, so chose to be absent...and I think he was very attached to this Suburban. About a month after the sale, I wrote him a letter telling him my plans for the Suburban, thanked him for selling it to me...and gave him my phone number and email address in case he ever felt the need to contact me. His wife responded and told me that he doesn't "do" email but he would like me to call him so he could tell me some things. This I did...and although his memory didn't work too well when I asked him specifics...he told me the things that were important to him...the most interesting thing being that he was a Service Manager at a GMC/Chevrolet dealer for 45 years! This one bit of information answered so many questions that would arise during the next couple of years...especially the factory options that were not listed on the SPID...they were installed at the dealership over a "longish" period of time.

I retired a year ago, and since Jerry got me rolling, I have been collecting parts for things I can do myself. One of the first things I ordered was the body mounts and core support kit. I ordered though GMC Pauls and got the core support kit pretty quickly...but the body mounts were backordered. I was quickly advised of that fact and asked if I wanted to cancel my order, but said I could wait...and began work on the core supports. That was a job all by itself, at least for me, as I hadn't done this kind of work for decades...but I got into it and was happy with the results! Unfortunately, due to no fault of GMC Pauls, the body mounts stayed backordered for nearly five months (a broken die at the manufacturer)...and by the time I received them, I was occupied with "non-suburban" projects. Fast forward to just before the Coronavirus outbreak, and you find me removing the seats and carpet, gearing up to finally replace the body mount cushions. I decided to also find an upholsterer that would do my seats...but just when I was ready, everyone started closing their shops and staying home...so I started removing more of the interior like side panels, headliner and rear A/C unit. I had loaded the three original bench seats into the back of the Suburban for transport (I have a late eighties bench seat still installed for driving purposes), but as the "stay at home orders" kept stretching out longer and longer, I removed everything and began work on the body mounts. This is when I found some surprises! First, I couldn't access the four rear mounts (two per side) as my gas tank is a dealer installed 45 gallon unit that fits like a glove...and it's full! Instead, I sprayed penetrating oil on the remaining six bolts that I can access, and low and behold, everything came apart very easily! I set up the jack and 4X4, and was able to separate the body from the frame just enough to clear the cushions...but then realize that the four bolts that raise up inside through the floor, have been welded in place with a blob of a tack weld??? I also notice that some of the old cushions aren't too bad looking...but some are horrible to nonexistent (like crumbled apart and fell out on the road somewhere). At this point, I breakout my grinder on the passenger side blobs, and after doing what I feel is "a crap job", realized that I needed a smaller grinder. I complete the next two weld cuts with a dremel cutting wheel...and the results were much more to my liking! Everything else went exceedingly well, as all of the old hardware just needed to be wire-wheeled and coated with "Never-Seez" (or "moly-coat" as we called it during my days as an industrial mechanic)...then I assembled the mounts and dropped the Burb back down. To complete the rear sets, I had to violate (sort of) the "stay at home" orders and drove to Jerry's shop so he could drain and drop the gas tank. With the tank out, Jerry smoke/pressure checked it because I have had a small amount of gasoline drip down from the top of the tank, but only when it's parked at an upward angle and is completely full. Turns out it was just a gasket leak on the sending unit, so now that's good to go. While Jerry worked on the tank, I completed the body mounts. With the tank reinstalled, I took my wife out for some coastal drives...and we can't believe how much better the ride difference (softness only...still rolls through the turns).

[FLYNAVY30]

you and I have matching rust. I too fully expect that my '72 will eventually need two new rear quarter panels, and some patches in front of the rear tires. Thats going to be my retirement project in 3 years.

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by FLYNAVY30

you and I have matching rust. I too fully expect that my '72 will eventually need two new rear quarter panels, and some patches in front of the rear tires. Thats going to be my retirement project in 3 years.

Look what I found when I pulled up the carpet on the floor under the dash!!! Passenger side was filled full of silicone...Drivers side is filled with bondo! I wondered why the front carpet was so much nicer than the back!?!?

Woody

[Bigdav160]

Those springs look shot

[HO455]

And I would wager that the bump stops are rock hard. (It looks like the one of the rear ones is starting to disintegrate.) That with the sagging springs would contribute to a harsh ride.
Good work and congratulations on getting a one owner rig.

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by HO455

And I would wager that the bump stops are rock hard. (It looks like the one of the rear ones is starting to disintegrate.) That with the sagging springs would contribute to a harsh ride.
Good work and congratulations on getting a one owner rig.

I didn't give any thought to the bump stops...DUH...they have good shape, but you are right...they are probably rock hard...not just from age, but also from the desert heat that they lived their life in! Something else for the list!

Thanks...I'll give some more insight on the original owner when I add to my thread...he was a cool guy who really loved his Suburban!

Woody

ps...HO455...special thanks for your WMB thread...not only did it give me the courage to tackle the body mount replacement on my own, it practically gave step by step instructions for what goes where...which I referred to more than a couple of times!

[Beach-Burban]

Here's one of those puzzling questions...Has anyone else gone through the effort to install a key/lock mechanism on the third door??? The PO did...not sure why...and not only do I not have the key (does not match the rest of the vehicle), it seems to have made manually unlocking the door a real joy...(sarcasm)! I have to use both hands to lift the locking stem when I want the door to open??? I have not looked into what to do to reverse the process or make any adjustments so that I can lift the knob more easily...but I'm going to have to do something! Any thoughts?

Woody

[HO455]

LockDoc is likely your answer man on this one. Although I don't have the 3rd door key cylinder (and sometimes I really want one.) my lock stem is just as tough to move as yours.

[KFF 1]

Originally Posted by Beach-Burban

Here's one of those puzzling questions...Has anyone else gone through the effort to install a key/lock mechanism on the third door??? The PO did...not sure why...and not only do I not have the key (does not match the rest of the vehicle), it seems to have made manually unlocking the door a real joy...(sarcasm)! I have to use both hands to lift the locking stem when I want the door to open??? I have not looked into what to do to reverse the process or make any adjustments so that I can lift the knob more easily...but I'm going to have to do something! Any thoughts?

Woody

Attachment 1998909

I had the same problem with the lock mechanism on my 3rd door as well …. Took the door panel off and removed everything clean and lube works like a charm now …. Hope this helps

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by Beach-Burban

Here's one of those puzzling questions...Has anyone else gone through the effort to install a key/lock mechanism on the third door??? The PO did...not sure why...and not only do I not have the key (does not match the rest of the vehicle), it seems to have made manually unlocking the door a real joy...(sarcasm)! I have to use both hands to lift the locking stem when I want the door to open??? I have not looked into what to do to reverse the process or make any adjustments so that I can lift the knob more easily...but I'm going to have to do something! Any thoughts?

Woody

See if you can see the latch and lock by rolling down the window on the 3rd door and shining a good strong flashlight into the door at the back of the glass. If you can get a penetrating oil nozzle down in there and spray the back of the lock cylinder and door latch it may solve your problem.


If the ignition/door key will physically slide into the 3rd door lock cylinder I can key it the same as the other locks on the truck. If it were me I would leave it if you can get it working.

LockDoc

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by Bigdav160

Those springs look shot

These pictures shown are with a full tank of gas...45 gallons...but now that I think about it, those poor springs have been handling that load and more since practically new!?!? Springs are going to the top of the list...now how do I decide what springs to buy?

Woody

I've added a picture of the gas tank...close to 400 pounds when full!

[CG]

Have you popped the door panel yet? Might just be a case of some lube. Or possibly its binding because of a cobble job. If that is the case I would just take the rod off that's binding and leave the lock there as a non functional until you are ready to either tackle it and do it right, or just pop it out and fill when you are to the body and paint stage. Like HO455 says shoot LockDoc a PM and I know he can help you out on getting it keyed correctly if that's the way you go.

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by CG

Have you popped the door panel yet? Might just be a case of some lube. Or possibly its binding because of a cobble job. If that is the case I would just take the rod off that's binding and leave the lock there as a non functional until you are ready to either tackle it and do it right, or just pop it out and fill when you are to the body and paint stage. Like HO455 says shoot LockDoc a PM and I know he can help you out on getting it keyed correctly if that's the way you go.

I haven't looked behind the panel yet...but got lots of time at the moment, so I guess it's time to start fiddling. Getting it keyed to match the others would be the goal, but I'll see what's going on inside there before I bother Leon. Thanks!

Woody

[FLYNAVY30]

Woody, I was under mine today changing the oil and happened to glance back at the rear springs. Mine is a C20, but the rear coil springs look exactly like yours....and mine also rides like a covered wagon. I'm assuming we both have failed springs, but I thought it interesting that both failed in the same way, at the same coils. One more thing to add to the list....

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by FLYNAVY30

Woody, I was under mine today changing the oil and happened to glance back at the rear springs. Mine is a C20, but the rear coil springs look exactly like yours....and mine also rides like a covered wagon. I'm assuming we both have failed springs, but I thought it interesting that both failed in the same way, at the same coils. One more thing to add to the list....

That's why I'm not sure how to order new springs...are C/10 and C/20 rear springs different? And as my C/10 is a 9 passenger, it came from the factory with 3/4 ton front suspension (control arms, ball joints, springs, etc...) so is there a difference with the rear springs because it's rated with higher weight loads?

Woody

[FLYNAVY30]

Yea, I wish I could help you. These things can be such mutts....its kind cool, but hard to track down the right replacement.

[richard2717]

As far as the coil springs, make sure you get them specific for the suburbans and not truck ones. The truck ones are lighter and will be real sloppy.

The 3rd door has two pivot points before it even gets to the latch assembly. You may have some binding in that as well. Here is a picture of one I just removed from a door I was trashing. It is missing the little short rod that comes thru the door for you to pull on but I added a picture of that separately just so you can see what it looks like. The pivot brackets are attached to the door behind the door panel with 2 phillips screws on each bracket.


.

[Beach-Burban]

Originally Posted by richard2717

As far as the coil springs, make sure you get them specific for the suburbans and not truck ones. The truck ones are lighter and will be real sloppy.

The 3rd door has two pivot points before it even gets to the latch assembly. You may have some binding in that as well. Here is a picture of one I just removed from a door I was trashing. It is missing the little short rod that comes thru the door for you to pull on but I added a picture of that separately just so you can see what it looks like. The pivot brackets are attached to the door behind the door panel with 2 phillips screws on each bracket.


.

Thanks Richard...I will be referring to these pictures when I start investigating my problem. It seems intimidating when working on a component that is enclosed in a structure that limits one's view...especially when you start removing screws from the outside and things start falling on the inside!

Woody

[richard2717]

Unless you are prepared to become frustrated try doing it while still attached to the door. they are a bear to get the clips holding the rods unclipped. I took all of it out still hooked together but you have to take the window regulator out as well. It was easier for me bc I had the door laying on the table. As long as the window is all the way up and the inner door panel removed, you should be able to see all points thru the holes in the door using a flash light.
I still can't figure out why GM went thru all the trouble to put the lever at the front of the door instead of straight up from the latch like the front doors.

[HO455]

I'm sure some bean counter figured out it was cheaper to put all that linkage in the door instead of installing a 3rd lock cylinder. It's not much more effort to unlock the front door and reach around the pillar to open the 3rd door, but none the less it is one of the very few things about a 3 door that I find annoying.

And thank you Richard for posting the photos. I too will make use of them.

[richard2717]

Originally Posted by HO455

I'm sure some bean counter figured out it was cheaper to put all that linkage in the door instead of installing a 3rd lock cylinder. It's not much more effort to unlock the front door and reach around the pillar to open the 3rd door, but none the less it is one of the very few things about a 3 door that I find annoying.

And thank you Richard for posting the photos. I too will make use of them.

Actually I guess that makes sense as to why they moved it to the front of the door. It would be hard to reach if it was in the rear position.

Let me know if clearer pics are needed. I can pull it back off the shelf and get better pics. Those are not the best with them sitting on the metal table

[Beach-Burban]

Success!!! A little bit of penetrating oil goes a long way! The lock stem goes up and down very easily now...thanks to all! I also found that the lock cylinder is turned sideways so the "U" shaped lock bracket wouldn't even engage with the cylinder arm IF I had a key...so I still have some work to do???

Woody