2 for 1 Part II...

[aggie91]

You guys have probably seen my son's build that was the first part of this 2 for 1 deal we got on a couple of square bodies. There is a link in my Signature below for Korbin's Sunburn.

Well, this truck is the second of that 2 for 1 deal. We brought it home a couple of months ago and gave it a bath just so it does not look like an eyesore at the house. We really had not touched it other than a good external cleaning.

Here are some pictures:








From the SPID it is a VERY basic truck:


After a bath it did not look to bad. The body is reasonably straight and hardly any rust. The cab is good and solid. This one is actually the beter of the two, we just did not look hard enought the first time around...live and learn..



Plans at this time are to get it running and driving to use as a parts hauler for now...

[aggie91]

Since I have a couple of project trucks, I have decided to do the basics on this one and use my "good" upgrade parts on my '65 once I can get back to it.

Korbin started to get the carpet out and clean the interior to reduce the smell and see how the floors really are:


That was a few weeks ago.

So, the other evening my wife and I were out for our walk the other evening, I told her that I wanted to work on getting this one to make a driver/parts/trash hauler out of it. My initial plan is to keep the costs under control and REALLY low. She said OK and that got me thinking....

This week I told her that for Father's Day I did not want any gifts but to have the day to work on this thing. So, I got the green light and Korbin agreed to help for the day.

Last night I did a bit of prep work for Sunday. I got under it and disconneted most of the items from the bottom related to pulling the engine/trans.

I also placed an order for rear brake parts (minus the drums) with Rock Auto. Hardware kit, Shoes, Wheel Cylinders and Flex Hose shipped to my door for a total of $30.36. Those won't be here till next week but they will be needed. My '65 has new calipers, pads and bearing with good rotors that were turned when I started redoing it a couple of years ago along with new ball joints. Those will make its way onto this truck for now, no money out of my pocket today for those items.

This weekend's plan is to pull the engine and trans, and replace the front brakes if time allows. Stay tuned.

[Low Elco]

Good Luck! Oughta be a good little beater!

[ThreeQtr]

Great deal on those trucks and to have one stored for 4 years .
I did read in the first page of the other square body build that your younger son was then 9 years old, so now he's maybe 13 ? That would give you and him 3 years to do this up for him, maybe .? Just say'in.

[aggie91]

Thanks for checking in guys. I got some stuff done over the weekend, but not everyting I had planned. I'm loading up pictures now, so I will post updates later.

Originally Posted by ThreeQtr

Great deal on those trucks and to have one stored for 4 years .
I did read in the first page of the other square body build that your younger son was then 9 years old, so now he's maybe 13 ? That would give you and him 3 years to do this up for him, maybe .? Just say'in.

He will turn 13 in 3 weeks. He is not sure of what he really wants for his first vehicle. We are going to hold off a bit with starting something for him. For now, he is going to help me out on this one. We will see how it goes...

[aggie91]

Well got some time to work on it on Saturday too. Glad I did, since Sunday I was not able to spend as much time as I wanted. My help had worked all day before and was too tired. I finally did get some help and we got the motor out and on the stand.

Started with this:


Ended up with this:


The 4.3 V6 uses different mounts then the traditional small block. Here is a pic of the frame side of things:


They are further back on the crossmember. The passenger side is similar to a V8 with the rubber mount on the frame bracket and the clam shell on the engine. The driver side had the rubber mount on the engine and the clam shell on the frame bracket.

Got everything labled on the harness still attached to the truck. I started removing other parts of the AC system since the front boot and engine are out. Got some cleaning to do now...

[rusty76]

I'll be watching!

[Hankster]

I'll be watching this one! Looks like a very solid start!

[aggie91]

So far this truck looks to be real solid. the only rust found so far was the battery try and the two bolts holding the core support on. There is some signs of rust in the horizontal seam on the firewall in the recessed part, but I should be able to treat it and not replace the metal on the firewall.

The frame mounts for the engine look promising for doing the LS swap, but I have not taken any measurements to see what it will take. I know that I can swap out the mounts for regular SBC ones and use what's out on the market, but this is going to be a low buck swap and if needed, I can fab my own. Time will tell.

I hope to get a short amount of time this evening to measure some stuff, but today is Korbin's birthday, Owen has an All Star scrimmage from 7-9 and Katie has her gymnastics/tumbling class from 4-6. Needless to say we are kind of busy today...LOL

[Tx Firefighter]

What's the story on the V6 ? Did it not run ?

[aggie91]

No the V6 did not run, I found a rat skeleton in the air cleaner, the carb is full of rats nests, not even sure what had gotten down into the intake. My plan is to get it stripped down to a long block and have a look at it. That my take awhile before I get to that point. Current thinking is rebuilding it with a mild performance twist to put into my '65. Not real sure yet. I might even trade it off...

Main focus now it getting the LS into the frame rails. I know that does not sound like a low buck approach to things, but I already have the motor/trans and stand alone harness/pcm. Right now looks like I have everything I need for the swap except for maybe a fuel line or some other small item. Not sure what I will do about a speedo for now...

[Tx Firefighter]

If your V6 had a carb full of rat's nest, you just know it has a block full of rat urine. You can nearly bet of trails of rust running down into the bores.

I guess I need to build me an LS powered truck just once. Everybody says an LS engine cures everything from poor mileage to male pattern baldness. But crap, dealing with exhaust manifold clearance, drive by wire pedals, computer programming and high pressure fuel systems sure doesn't seem like the slam dunk swap everyone makes it out to be. Yes, I'm sure I could do the swap, but the hassle seems significant.

[Chevy3+3]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

If your V6 had a carb full of rat's nest, you just know it has a block full of rat urine. You can nearly bet of trails of rust running down into the bores.

I guess I need to build me an LS powered truck just once. Everybody says an LS engine cures everything from poor mileage to male pattern baldness. But crap, dealing with exhaust manifold clearance, drive by wire pedals, computer programming and high pressure fuel systems sure doesn't seem like the slam dunk swap everyone makes it out to be. Yes, I'm sure I could do the swap, but the hassle seems significant.

The simplicity of carb'd engines is a delight sometimes because of how temperamental the newer engines can be especially when doing a swap. I however plan to swap an 8.1 into my crew when my 454 bites the dust. I can't wait to get LOTS more HP & torque and see 10-12 mpg compared to my 6-8, lol

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

If your V6 had a carb full of rat's nest, you just know it has a block full of rat urine. You can nearly bet of trails of rust running down into the bores.

I guess I need to build me an LS powered truck just once. Everybody says an LS engine cures everything from poor mileage to male pattern baldness. But crap, dealing with exhaust manifold clearance, drive by wire pedals, computer programming and high pressure fuel systems sure doesn't seem like the slam dunk swap everyone makes it out to be. Yes, I'm sure I could do the swap, but the hassle seems significant.

Originally Posted by Chevy3+3

The simplicity of carb'd engines is a delight sometimes because of how temperamental the newer engines can be especially when doing a swap. I however plan to swap an 8.1 into my crew when my 454 bites the dust. I can't wait to get LOTS more HP & torque and see 10-12 mpg compared to my 6-8, lol

I hope what I do here on this build will answer a bunch of questions about this swap. The ones Kevin mentions are all of the ones that people seem to get frustrated about. This will be the second one I do. This one will be a bit different as I am going to do the fuel system a different way. The drive by wire pedal is not an issue for me on this one. It is from a 2000 GM Truck and has a cable throttle body. The actual cable from the 2000 gm truck will be used on this build. I plan on getting the cruise hooked up a working also. I have actuall found the LS swap to be simple and not that complicated. I did the wiring harness mods my self and it cranked and started the first try.

Follow along as I get into this one. I am out for a few days because of my job, but my next step is just getting the engine/trans in between the frame rails...Stay tuned...

[2000Limited]

Nice start. I read all of the other build, It was a great job from both of you.

[Jonboy]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

If your V6 had a carb full of rat's nest, you just know it has a block full of rat urine. You can nearly bet of trails of rust running down into the bores.

I guess I need to build me an LS powered truck just once. Everybody says an LS engine cures everything from poor mileage to male pattern baldness. But crap, dealing with exhaust manifold clearance, drive by wire pedals, computer programming and high pressure fuel systems sure doesn't seem like the slam dunk swap everyone makes it out to be. Yes, I'm sure I could do the swap, but the hassle seems significant.

I am still bald, but my swap isn't up and running yet. Maybe there is still hope....

Karl, I am interested to see how you do it. I have tried to do mine the poor boy way, but I broke down and bought a harness and a few other things along the way. Not 100% budget minded, but close.

[aggie91]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Karl, I'll be following the LS swap closely. I'm interested to see your approach. There's been multiple times on here where guys have said you can buy an LS and install it as cheaply as buying a 1300 dollar crate engine and installing it. That's sounds like horsesh1t to me but I have never called anyone out on it since I haven't personally done this swap. I'm hoping you can pave the way for some sensible and simple money saving swap tips.

My plan is to keep a running total of what I spend and why. I will try to justify my decisions so that it makes sense to the rest of the forum in hopes that others can learn from it.

Originally Posted by Low Elco

I know doing it in a square makes it a lot easier. See the "Fred" thread. Especially if you find a robbable '87 in the yards. I'll be excited to see this as well, y'all do nice work!

First off, thanks for the comment on my other build. I am not sure that doing it in a square is any easier (other than the EFI in-tank pump) since the front frame is basically the same for '63-'87. Some of what I will be doing to this one, will be to try ideas I have for when I do my '65.

Originally Posted by 2000Limited

Nice start. I read all of the other build, It was a great job from both of you.

Thanks for the compliment!

Originally Posted by Jonboy

I am still bald, but my swap isn't up and running yet. Maybe there is still hope....

Karl, I am interested to see how you do it. I have tried to do mine the poor boy way, but I broke down and bought a harness and a few other things along the way. Not 100% budget minded, but close.

I did my harness myself following the stuff on lt1swap.com. There are some things that in the end I was not happy with. Most of it was in the way it looks and how the harness was routed around the engine/trans. I will be redoing that on this one and make it tighter/neater in my opinion. Its not hard work, but time consuming. I got more time than money for this project, but in reallity, I don't have any time either...

[rs72z]

If you aren't going for the show car look under the hood, the easiest way is to use the under hood fuse block from the donor truck. It's a 3 wire hookup...12+ constant, 12+ switched and the fuel pump hot. Then there is one wire to the trans that has to be moved in the fuse block. Pretty simple.
I used the factory covers for the fuse block and mounted it to the fender.
I also used the drive by wire and hooked up cruise.

I also did a swap in a 55 nomad and modified the stock harness myself following lt1 swap.com. It's not hard just time consuming and be careful and don't accidently cut a wire that your not supposed too. Don't ask me how I know about that.

[aggie91]

I spent some time last night measuring the engine block mounting bosses relative to the bellhousing flange on both the 4.3 V6 and the LM7 engine.

The 4.3 has a distance of 9 13/16" from the flange to the rear upper bolt boss for the enging mount.

The LM7 has a distance of 10.27" per some online info (I measured 10 1/4" with my combination square) from the flange to the upper rear bolt boss for the enging mount.

Give these two distances, if I was to put the traditional clam shell mount on the LM7 engine so that the upper rear bolt of the mount is shared by both engines, that would put the new LS based engine BACK by 7/16" from where the 1985 OE 4.3 V6 was mounted.

While searching the internet, there are is not a adapter plate that makes this work with the OE 4.3 V6 frame or motor mounts. Yes, the frame mounts are different for the 43. compared to the SBC of BBC frame mounts. The readily available 3" forward mounts look right, but most are machined for using flat head screws to mount the traditional V8 engine mount.

There is one exception that I have found. The Holley 3" forward mount uses the flat head screw to mount the adapter plate to the LS block on 3 of the bolts and the upper front bolt is shared. The other 2 bolts for the traditional mount are drilled and tapped into the adapter to use a standard hex head bolt. The Holley part number is: 12622HKRUPC. Here is a picture of that adapter plate:



For this one to work for my idea, they need to be mounted opposite of Holley's intention. I.E. the Driver's side mount need to be used on the Passenger side and vice versa. In the picture above, the bottom one would go on the driver's side of my LM7 to make this all work. Best price I found on the net so far is about $80. I will still need to get new rubber mounts also.

[Tx Firefighter]

Karl, I'll be following the LS swap closely. I'm interested to see your approach. There's been multiple times on here where guys have said you can buy an LS and install it as cheaply as buying a 1300 dollar crate engine and installing it. That's sounds like horsesh1t to me but I have never called anyone out on it since I haven't personally done this swap. I'm hoping you can pave the way for some sensible and simple money saving swap tips.

[Low Elco]

I know doing it in a square makes it a lot easier. See the "Fred" thread. Especially if you find a robbable '87 in the yards. I'll be excited to see this as well, y'all do nice work!

[aggie91]

Not going for a show car look, but I do not like the look of the factory fuse box especially if your not using ALL of the circuits inside it. Takes up to much space.

I have the harness already done, I am just going clean it up a bit and re-route it some. Current thinking is to place the PCM where the auxillary battery tray would be on the driver's side front corner of the engine bay.

[Jonboy]

Karl, I used the left side to mount my battery, so I was able to use the factory LS cables and routing that way. For the PCM, I used the PCM tray for a 98 S10. It mounts pretty flat, so I used 1/4" carriage bolts of different lengths to get it level. The way my harness came, the TAC module plug was pretty close to the PCM plugs, so the TAC and fuel pump/fan relays went on the inner fender right above the PCM. Auxillary fuse box went just inside of the PCM. It isn't exactly car show ready, but it will work. I figured I can church it up a bit if I need to, but I probably won't.

[GAc10boy]

Definitely tuning into this one. You've always been a big encouragement to me and I love Korbin's truck so I'm excited to see how this one plays out.

[aggie91]

Got my adapter plates yesterday. They are not perfect, but for the price I paid, I am not complaining. I can sand them down and paint, they will hardly be seen anyway.

Here they are with the stock mounts laid out on my work bench with the grade 8 bolts I would like to use. The ones with the nuts/washers are 3/8"-16 x 1". The bolts without the nuts are metric (10mm) for the one bolt that is shared by the adapter plate and the mount/clam shell.:


I put the parts together finger tight to toss on the block to check for interference with the bolts for the square body mounts and the block. Here is the passenger side on the block. The motor is on a stand and upside down since I just replaced the oil pump pick up tube o-ring:


The adapter plate does not sit flush on the block's mounting bosses. Doing a little checking, I need to change one of the bolts from a hex head to a button head or even counter sink the hole for a flat head bolt in one location on each side. Here is a pic of the offending bolt head and rib in the blocks casting. I could grind the rib in the casting, but GM put it there for a reason and I am not going to find out if it really needs to be there...:


Today will get a couple of button head and flat head bolts to work out the interference problem and get those plates and mounts cleaned up and painted.