Please, please, help me! Missing school!

[cfan10]

Ok, guys I really need help this time, Friday night while driving in rush hour traffic…my truck just died felt like it had lost all power, oddly it wasn’t out of gas because I had a gas can in the bed and filled the tank until it poured all over the ground. Tried to start and it spins over but will not start.

Long story short, had an AutoZone starter and it was for a 1994 instead of a 1984 so I switched them and still the same thing. But it actually ran with the starter for a 1994 truck, only difference is the size.

1984 starter used with two shims and still nothing.

Also, had a Mr. Gasket electric fuel pump installed last month, had been running pretty good except for the drained batteries.
The guy ran the 12volt for the electric fuel pump into the choke fuse on the fuse box underneath the dash. The choke fuse is a 15amp and on the instructions for the fuel pump it reads to use 5amp max and that it needs to be connected to a switched ignition terminal. How do I find this?
I also installed a new alternator but found out it was for AC option which I do not have, so I installed the correct unit and still no start. Checked the connections to the starter and the solenoid wire needed a connector because it was just cut and twisted.

I’ve already missed two days of class due to no transportation; I don’t have the money to rent a car and no public transportation in my area. Please, help with advice on how to fix this I can’t afford to miss any more education because of this.

Info:
1984 C10 305v8 4barrel carb

Mr. Gasket electric fuel pump part # 12S (worked fine and is still pump gas to the carb because I used a bottle from the carb fuel line and it dumped a lot of gas)

O’reilly: Starter (this is the third starter I’ve installed, the other two were from Autozone)

Advance auto parts: Alternator

Thanks for all advice it is greatly appreciated!!!

[cfan10]

Posted a vid on YouTube user name is Dime Fever, please take a glance. Thank you!

[cfan10]

New Battery (3/2016)
New Carb (2/2016)

[cfan10]

No one has any advice?

[Blessed66]

Well, I'll bite.

First thing I would do is make sure you're actually getting fuel into the engine. If you can visibly see fuel entering the engine, that helps. Second thing I would do is check that you're getting spark. There are testers for this.

Is this a complete out-of-the-blue issue? Have you had progressive problems with the truck running?

[jetmech85]

If your engine is spinning over and you have fuel at the carb then I would suspect you are not getting spark or are having some sort of ignition problem.

[cfan10]

No issues except for the old alternator draining the batt.

[Blessed66]

Alternator draining the battery? That's interesting. What sort of voltage/amperage was it producing before?

I'd still be checking spark, if it were me.

[aharper33]

By chance did the fusable (sp?) link on the firewall happen to blow a fuse. Had this happen to me out of the blue one day when I was out camping. Had kinda the same issues.

[hatzie]

It just shut down like you switched off the ignition.
Fuel pump is pumping.
Starter is cranking it over.

All the noble symptoms of an ignition problem.
Test for spark with an inline spark tester. $9 at AutoZone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQBtzk-dGYM

If the 1994 gear reduction unit was cranking it over I'd put it back in after you fix the ignition.

[barry1982]

I agree it sounds like a spark or timing problem. Had a similar thing happen to an 85 I used to have, turns out it was the module in the HEI distributor. Does the truck "back fire" at all? If you don't want to buy a spark tester, pull a spark plug, get a helper to hold against a "clean" spot on the exhaust manifold to ground. Crank your engine, if you have spark, you will see it immediately. If you have spark and gas in your carb, than you have a timing issue. I have seen timing chains jump a few cogs many times. If you want to know how to check this, let me know and I will explain.

[raceman6135]

I agree with the other posters that it sounds like an ignition problem, based on the info you've provided.

Whenever I've had an engine just quit while out driving, 99 times out of 100 it is the ignition module that has failed.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by raceman6135

I agree with the other posters that it sounds like an ignition problem, based on the info you've provided.

Whenever I've had an engine just quit while out driving, 99 times out of 100 it is the ignition module that has failed.

I've actually had 1 or 2 rotors burn through on new to me GM cars. Strangest thing I'd ever seen when I found the first one. Just a little pinhole under the center terminal. My guess is it was from the cap not being fully seated and the rotor terminal didn't make contact with the carbon terminal from the coil.

When they quit just out of the blue it's usually ignition related.

[N2TRUX]

Does it still have the ESC? If your not sure look on the passenger side of your distributor. If you have a plug coming from the distrubitor that looks like the pic posted below, and its not disconnected your ESC is still hooked up. Heres a link on how to bypass the ESC. LINK Read the information provided. You do not need to replace the distrubitor, just bypass the ESC. You can make a jumper for a quick test that goes between the green and black wire on the distrubitor side of the plug. If the truck starts, then do the bypass.

[cfan10]

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Does it still have the ESC? If your not sure look on the passenger side of your distributor. If you have a plug coming from the distrubitor that looks like the pic posted below, and its not disconnected your ESC is still hooked up. Heres a link on how to bypass the ESC. LINK Read the information provided. You do not need to replace the distrubitor, just bypass the ESC. You can make a jumper for a quick test that goes between the green and black wire on the distrubitor side of the plug. If the truck starts, then do the bypass.

I have wondered what this was, it has always been disconnected.

[68c10owner]

Sounds like ignition to me.

BTW, starter has nothing to do with the engine once its running.

Fuel pump draining battery, you must have it hooked to full time hot. Wire it to a power source that is only hot with the key in the ON position or to a toggle that is only powered in the ON position.

[hatzie]

You want some type of fuel pump cutoff just in case you're in an accident. You DO NOT EVER want the fuel pump to remain powered after a collision that shuts down the engine. Fire is an extremely unpleasant way to check out of Hotel Earth.

Use a common Bosch 5 terminal Automotive ISO relay and an Oil Pressure Safety Switch to power the fuel pump. A relay and OPSS is an easier and far more reliable safety cutoff than an inertia switch. The OPSS will eventually fail to turn the pump on. It will not fail to switch the pump off in an emergency like an inertia switch.

A Three terminal Universal OPSS , like the Airtex OS75, has fuel pump power switch contacts that do not close till there's oil pressure to run the fuel pump. These switch contacts open back up as soon as there is no oil pressure immediately shutting it off. Cranking power can be utilized to energize the fuel pump while cranking before oil pressure builds.

Hook Ignition power to the Power terminal on the OPSS.
Hook a wire from the starter Crank terminal to the Crank power terminal on the OPSS. This one is optional to reduce cranking time. Eventually oil pressure from cranking will close the contacts in the OPSS and energize the fuel pump through the relay.

Hook the Fuel Pump power terminal on the OPSS to the relay coil + terminal (#86 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay)
Hook the relay coil ground to any good chassis ground (#85 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay).
Hook the relay Switch Common terminal (#30 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay) to your fuel pump power lead.
Hook the relay Normally Open switch terminal (#87 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay) to the Pump terminal on the OPSS.
You can add a pump test wire to the relay Normaly Closed switch terminal (#87a on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPh2Na3vbGc

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by hatzie

You want some type of fuel pump cutoff just in case you're in an accident. You DO NOT EVER want the fuel pump to remain powered after a collision that shuts down the engine. Fire is an extremely unpleasant way to check out of Hotel Earth.

Use a common Bosch 5 terminal Automotive ISO relay and an Oil Pressure Safety Switch to power the fuel pump. A relay and OPSS is an easier and far more reliable safety cutoff than an inertia switch. The OPSS will eventually fail to turn the pump on. It will not fail to switch the pump off in an emergency like an inertia switch.

A Three terminal Universal OPSS , like the Airtex OS75, has fuel pump power switch contacts that do not close till there's oil pressure to run the fuel pump. These switch contacts open back up as soon as there is no oil pressure immediately shutting it off. Cranking power can be utilized to energize the fuel pump while cranking before oil pressure builds.

Hook Ignition power to the Power terminal on the OPSS.
Hook a wire from the starter Crank terminal to the Crank power terminal on the OPSS. This one is optional to reduce cranking time. Eventually oil pressure from cranking will close the contacts in the OPSS and energize the fuel pump through the relay.

Hook the Fuel Pump power terminal on the OPSS to the relay coil + terminal (#86 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay)
Hook the relay coil ground to any good chassis ground (#85 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay).
Hook the relay Switch Common terminal (#30 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay) to your fuel pump power lead.
Hook the relay Normally Open switch terminal (#87 on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay) to the Pump terminal on the OPSS.
You can add a pump test wire to the relay Normaly Closed switch terminal (#87a on a Bosch Automotive ISO relay)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPh2Na3vbGc

Yeah I forgot to mention that. Good idea. A lot of the guys I knew who ran a electric pump back in the day used a Vega switch for this reason.

[hatzie]

Wiring diagram for using an Oil Pressure Safety Switch
Click on the image to download a PDF.

[Orion88]

In the mid 80's they started making those computer-controlled distributors and they were notorious for crapping out for absolutely no known reason, leaving you stranded high and dry, much like you described happened while you were driving. I would replace it even if it turns out not to be the cause of your problems.

[Blessed66]

Originally Posted by Orion88

In the mid 80's they started making those computer-controlled distributors and they were notorious for crapping out for absolutely no known reason, leaving you stranded high and dry, much like you described happened while you were driving. I would replace it even if it turns out not to be the cause of your problems.

This is true, too. A brand new factory replacement (complete) is about $125. Not exactly the cheapest thing on anyone's list to buy, but I've seen crazier *cough*LT1*cough* distributors out there...

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Blessed66

This is true, too. A brand new factory replacement (complete) is about $125. Not exactly the cheapest thing on anyone's list to buy, but I've seen crazier *cough*LT1*cough* distributors out there...

Rebuilding an Optispark is much easier than a big cap HEI. As long as Bubba hasn't damaged the chopper wheel it's literally just thoroughly cleaning the base and replacing Cap, Rotor, and Optical Sensor.
Removing it from the engine is a PITA. I have found the rotor screws floating around in the thoroughly trashed insides because Bubba didn't Loctite em.
I've also had to creatively repair the distributor cap screw holes because they broke off when I was removing the cap. Brass machine screws, cyanocrylate, a file, and a milling machine figured heavily in the repair.

Back on topic.

No need to replace any HEI distributor. The internal parts are easy to replace. If the ESC has indeed died... it's fairly easy to turn the ESC into a standard HEI unit with some simple mods to the ESC wires as noted above.
I'd run some simple basic checks with a meter to make sure the coil is OK and the distributor is actually getting power. Then I'd swap the module or at least get it tested.

[cfan10]

Originally Posted by hatzie

Rebuilding an Optispark is much easier than a big cap HEI. As long as Bubba hasn't damaged the chopper wheel it's literally just thoroughly cleaning the base and replacing Cap, Rotor, and Optical Sensor.
Removing it from the engine is a PITA. I have found the rotor screws floating around in the thoroughly trashed insides because Bubba didn't Loctite em.
I've also had to creatively repair the distributor cap screw holes because they broke off when I was removing the cap. Brass machine screws, cyanocrylate, a file, and a milling machine figured heavily in the repair.

Back on topic.

No need to replace any HEI distributor. The internal parts are easy to replace. If the ESC has indeed died... it's fairly easy to turn the ESC into a standard HEI unit with some simple mods to the ESC wires as noted above.
I'd run some simple basic checks with a meter to make sure the coil is OK and the distributor is actually getting power. Then I'd swap the module or at least get it tested.

I replaced the ignition coil last month with a accel super coil. Had the ignition module tested and it was fine. Changed the ignition starter switch yesterday and my mom picked up a neutural safety switch last night don't want to mess with that though. Thanks for all the advice I will give everything you've suggested a try.

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by cfan10

I replaced the ignition coil last month with a accel super coil. Had the ignition module tested and it was fine. Changed the ignition starter switch yesterday and my mom picked up a neutural safety switch last night don't want to mess with that though. Thanks for all the advice I will give everything you've suggested a try.

Get rid of the Accel coil. "Performance" HEI coils have a reputation for killing ignition modules. The GM AC Delco coils will spit out more than enough energy to reliably jump 0.045" spark plug gaps at 4500 RPM. If you're running a truck engine over those RPMs for any serious length of time you'll blow it up and then it won't matter what coil you put in it.

AC Delco has several grades in their parts lines. From the cheapest Advantage, to OE Service, and more expensive and better Professional. You get what you pay for in this case. Advantage grade is usually pretty weak sauce... as in cheap Chinese parts. Professional grade are usually parts that will last.
Get a real AC Delco Professional D573A coil. Don't loose the stamped ground bar that runs from the center terminal position in the cap to under the coil laminations and make sure it makes very good contact with the coil laminations even if you have to scuff the lacquer off them in the contact area with some emery cloth.

Get a real AC Delco Professional ignition module. Don't get the cheapies.
4 terminal is D1906
5 terminal ESC is D1918
7 terminal ESC is 19179581

If you threw out the plastic coil dust cover and spark plug wire ring here are the part numbers to cross to whatever.
The AC Delco coil dust cover is D535C Around $8
The plug wire retainer http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...wire-retainers

[cfan10]

Changed ignition coil/ignition control module/cap and rotor arch seal. Timing 8degrees BTDC can someone please post a picture of your fuse panel under dash
Is the ignition coil red wire supposed to be hooked to a thick orange/pink looking wire for battery connection from the distributor cap?

84 305/350 giving me pure hell!!!
On my way to class yesterday and this happened again, had to get towed because I don't trust driving it. But it did start back up, but runs like crap!

As always thanks in advance for your advice or experience.