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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Brake Bleeding HELP!!
O.K. so I have a 1964 C20 with a Eaton H052 rear end.
Here is my problem! I can not seem to bleed my brakes. I changed all my brake lines all new wheel cylinders all around, new brake hareware, new master cylinder. The entire system is NEW. I starting bleeding the system but for the life of me could not get all the air out. The master cylinder was bench bleed until all air was out. So, I decide to purchase the Phoenix Bleeding System. Upon using the system I can not force the fluid in, it would blow the fitting off the bleed screw( these was happening in both the rear wheels) so I was troubled. I removed the bleed screw to discover that there was almost no hole at all in both bleed screws. Manufacturing defect, I guess that is why I could not get the air out. Now I install New bleed screws and I can not get the fluid to exit the master cylinder. If I remove the line from the master cylinder I can get a good flow. I remove the master cylinder again and bench bleed for a second time, still I can not get the fluid to exit the master cylinder. I read the manual and it states that the 1964 master cylinder is different that you need a special tool to pressure bleed. Could this system not be bleed with a Phoenix System? Do I neeed to do something different? Man I am at witts end I want to finish this brake job so I can get plates and drive this thing. Any help would be great. Last edited by Born Lucky; 06-03-2010 at 12:17 PM. Reason: spelling |
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#2 |
1962 C-10
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Las Vegas, New Mexico
Posts: 4,978
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Are you just having problems getting the back brakes bled? Or all the way around?
I have trouble getting the back brakes to flow. One trick is to put vise grips on the front rubber brake lines to block the fronts and sent everything to the back. That may help... Good luck...
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Joseph Chavez ![]() "See the USA in a Chevrolet!!" ......................_____ .........________//__{\_____ ,,,,,,,/__(O)___//___/__(O)_/ 1962 C10 Shortbed Fleetside 327/th350 GV overdrive 1974 C10 Longbed Fleetside 350/th350 "The Trash Truck" 1999 Chevy 2500 OBS, Longbed 5.7/4L80E 4x4 2015 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x4 |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 84
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Do you have the shoes adjusted properly? IF the shoes dont contact the drum, you will never get a pedal. I've had troubles with bleeding a new brake system in the past and it can be a real pain.
After re-reading your post, this is probably not your problem. Maybe try gravity bleeding it? Sounds like a bad MC. -Chris Last edited by Chris65GMC; 06-03-2010 at 12:46 PM. |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
At the moment I want to use my Phoenix System to force the fliud up the master cylinder. I am starting at the rear drivers side ( manuals recommendation) but the fluid will not exit the master cylinder. If I remove the line entering the master cylinder fluid flowe nice and smooth. It is like the master cylinder is closed or something. I have bench bleed 2 times and it shows no air and the piston is very firm went I get ready to reinstall.
Do I have to depress my brake peddle or something? |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Yes all shoes are adjusted correctly.
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
This is my new master cylinder. I bench bled with the second bleed scew closed Was I correct or do I neww to crack this screw open. |
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: myrtlebeach sc
Posts: 45
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I have been working on my 66 panel and just happen to be doing the same as you, brakes. I did not bench bleed at all and did it on the truck the old fashion way. once you have fluid in most of the system bleed the screw on the master then go to the left rear wheel (farthest from master by line length) and do it with a hose and jar. It still took me two days to get it to satisfify me but it will work. I had alot of problems with small leaks through out the system was my issue and I did all new as well. I have never seen a system that was that hard to get leak free but once there it worked. Hope this helps.
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#8 |
Check The Champ, Demonstrator
![]() Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montreal,Quebec
Posts: 6,627
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
On my 64 GMC 960 I had the service manual states to pressure bleed only. I tried the old method of pumping the brakes to no avail. Went to a couple of garages that specialize in trucks and unless they pressure bled the system it didn't happen. My Dad made me a pressure bleeder out of a threaded nipple two end caps and fittings. We took a flat plate of aluminum to cover the master cylinder. You need only 5-7 psi to bleed the system.
Did you try loosening the fittings as you move away from the master to see if you can get fluid towards the back to start with? Sounds like the line or lines are blocked.
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1963 Chevrolet Truck Literature LINK: https://picasaweb.google.com/113840717762774560215 YouTube Channel with 20+ Original Chevrolet Truck Salesmen, Mechanics & Service Department Training Slideshows. https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...otruk63&page=1 |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Yes the 1964 Supplement states that the 1964 master cylinder is different and that you have to pressure bleed.
So is this the ONLY way! If I pump my brake peddle and crack a, any bleed screw I can get fluid out. I just can not seem to get all the air out. This has got to be the most frustrating brake job that I have every done! |
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#10 | |
optomistic ah-so
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 544
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Just a theory here, but it sounds like EVERYONE is contributing a few pieces that added up are consistent with a residual pressure check valve that keeps the fluid up high until enough pressure is exerted to force the fluid to the brakes. Can anyone confirm this? Sounds like it would be located in the m/c orifice, since born lucky says he gets good flow with the line disconnected.
Who know what may have gone through engineer's (or lawyer's) heads when for the first decade or so after moving master cylinders from under the floorboard to the firewall. The Phoenix system may simply not make enough pressure to overcome whatever's designed in, if that's the case...has anyone tried the Phoenix bleeder on a later system that did NOT say it was "special"? Since hydraulic brakes are intended to multiply the force of a person's foot up to enough power to stop a two-ton or more vehicle without resorting to the "Flintstone style" method, the pressure inside a normal working system goes way beyond 5-7 pounds. If this theory is true, the gravity bleed plan won't work either but the buddy method would work, well, as effectively as it usually does which is better than you have now. I'd find some way to check out my theory before just up and increasing any pressure through the system, though...you may be more familiar with these being used on street rods with the m/c under the floorboard and disk brakes with 2lb check valves, but in working on a variety of street rods I've had to work with them applied to drum brakes and inventive experimental designs...this sums up the part that made me consider my theory: Quote:
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Rubbing is Racin' Ribbing is Bench Racin' 1970 C-10 lwb Fleetside. Originally 350 2-bbl 3-on-the-tree, m/b, m/w, m/s no a/c. Currently running on a '76 Camaro 305. ![]() |
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#11 |
"Where were you in '62?"
![]() Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Cleveland County, North Cackalacky
Posts: 5,013
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Anybody tried this product?
Motive Power Bleeder http://www.motiveproducts.com/ ![]() ![]() Actually helped my dad yesterday evening do this on a 33 Ford Coupe.... Still had air in the lines after an hour. Even in the resvior... I am going to buy a bleeder kit. Just don't know the best. http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/pr...der/index.html
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PROJECT: "FULL METAL YELLOW JACKET" 1962 Chevy C-10 Stepside Shortbed Nostalgia Pro/Street Pickup Truck PROJECT: "FULL METAL YELLOW JACKET Build Thread What Are You Workin' On? - 1Bad62ChevyPickup PROJECT: "TYRANNORAMBLER REX" 1969 AMC Rambler American Nostalgia Pro/Street Youtube Channel: Father Son Projects Youtube Channel: 2TIMOTHY2FITHTEEN ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() "North and South Carolina Folks Click Here!" (((( ~ I have Parts For Sale & Miscellaneous Stuff ~ )))) "Well being as there's no other place around the place, I reckon this must be the place, I reckon...Nyuk Nyuk Nyuk" -Curly Howard Ph.D. |
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#12 |
Check The Champ, Demonstrator
![]() Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montreal,Quebec
Posts: 6,627
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Motive Power Bleeder, newer version of the old pressure bleeder pot. It should be above the master when bleeding.
__________________
1963 Chevrolet Truck Literature LINK: https://picasaweb.google.com/113840717762774560215 YouTube Channel with 20+ Original Chevrolet Truck Salesmen, Mechanics & Service Department Training Slideshows. https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...otruk63&page=1 |
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#13 |
Cantankerous Geezer
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bel Aire, KS
Posts: 6,264
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
For a homemade pressure bleeder.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=155163
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Fred There is no such thing as too much cam...just not enough engine. ![]() |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Galt, Calif
Posts: 2,437
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
http://www.motiveproducts.com/files/3bleeder.jpg
I have one and have used it on three differant cars works great, money well spent.
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`64 C10 vortec 350/350/373 posi `69 RS/SS 350/350/308 `37 Ford 406/350/324 traclock `68 Dart 370/904/323 suregrip |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: St Charles MO
Posts: 481
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Re: Brake Bleeding HELP!!
Finally A job done!!!
I build my own pressure bleeder and it worked wonderfully. All brakes are good, peddle nice and firm. I also had to adjust my brake peddle travel. All good. Thanks all for the input. |
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