Too old for sythentecic oil?

[kcsa75]

I had the oil changed in my 72 today. I was planning to go with Valvoline Synthetic, but the manager told me it was "too old for sythetic." I didn't push the issue as I have no issue with conventional Valvoline but afterward I got to wondering if I'm missing something. I understood that the sythentics were fine for older engines.

Any thoughts?

[AusTx68]

It was explained to me that synthetics have a lower zinc content which make then a bad choice for older non roller motors. If you decide to run synthetic it's best to add a zinc additive.

[spike38]

Originally Posted by kcsa75

I had the oil changed in my 72 today. I was planning to go with Valvoline Synthetic, but the manager told me it was "too old for sythetic." I didn't push the issue as I have no issue with conventional Valvoline but afterward I got to wondering if I'm missing something. I understood that the sythentics were fine for older engines.

Any thoughts?

There are a lot of myths about using synthetic oils in older vehicles.
Mobile 1 has a whole site dedicated to these myths. But it all boils
down to, All vehicle benefit from using synthetics, Not to say there is
anything wrong with traditional oils. Just that synthetics last longer,
And keep your engine cleaner. If you think you have a lot of sludge
in your motor, I would change it a little sooner after switching over,
The first time ( it will clean your motor). Then use recommended times.

Spike

[mrhino]

Originally Posted by spike38

There are a lot of myths about using synthetic oils in older vehicles.
Mobile 1 has a whole site dedicated to these myths. But it all boils
down to, All vehicle benefit from using synthetics, Not to say there is
anything wrong with traditional oils. Just that synthetics last longer,
And keep your engine cleaner. If you think you have a lot of sludge
in your motor, I would change it a little sooner after switching over,
The first time ( it will clean your motor). Then use recommended times.

Spike

Agreed, the only thing I would say that would not make it suitable for a older engine is: If it leaks, or burns its fair share of oil.

[LockDoc]

-
Read this thread:

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=381780

LockDoc

[Longhorn Man]

there's a few reasons not to run synthetic... but no real good reasons. (other than burning and leaking oil as mentioned)
The zink comment above holds no water, becouse there are no 'over the counter" oils on the market (including rotella) that contain enough for non roller motors.

[into69z]

Well-do you guys add a zinc additive to your fresh oil change? If you do, what do you use? I use Valvoline and I thought it had all I needed, but I wouldn't hesitate to add a zink additive if it will help. I read recently that oil is going to change in ratings soon so that it's compatible with the newer engines? any thoughts?

[OhOneWS6]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

there's a few reasons not to run synthetic... but no real good reasons. (other than burning and leaking oil as mentioned)
The zink comment above holds no water, becouse there are no 'over the counter" oils on the market (including rotella) that contain enough for non roller motors.

That is a matter of opinion. Valvoline VR1 still has zinc and is available over the counter. For an all out high performance engine more zinc may be desired but for a stock to mild street flat tappet motor it is plenty.

[Longhorn Man]

Originally Posted by OhOneWS6

That is a matter of opinion. Valvoline VR1 still has zinc and is available over the counter. For an all out high performance engine more zinc may be desired but for a stock to mild street flat tappet motor it is plenty.

when I said over the counter oil, I am talking about any oil you can find at wall mart and auto zone, and places like that. Yes, you can go to NAPA and order red line synthetic or any other oil known to man kind.
I shoulda worded that properly I guess.

[OhOneWS6]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

when I said over the counter oil, I am talking about any oil you can find at wall mart and auto zone, and places like that. Yes, you can go to NAPA and order red line synthetic or any other oil known to man kind.
I shoulda worded that properly I guess.

I buy VR-1 at AutoZone.

[AusTx68]

Originally Posted by OhOneWS6

I buy VR-1 at AutoZone.

I think I found my new motor oil

[Shane]

Originally Posted by OhOneWS6

That is a matter of opinion. Valvoline VR1 still has zinc and is available over the counter. For an all out high performance engine more zinc may be desired but for a stock to mild street flat tappet motor it is plenty.

the absence of ZDDP (zinc) in motor oils is irrelevant to the performance rating of an engine.

[OhOneWS6]

Originally Posted by Shane

the absence of ZDDP (zinc) in motor oils is irrelevant to the performance rating of an engine.

It is completely relevant. A performance flat tappet motor with higher than stock spring rates can very well require a higher PPM of zinc to prevent cam wear. The cam in a motor with stock or slightly higher spring rates can survive with a lower PPM on zinc.

I'm not going to get in a pissing match about it. It's been hashed out 1000 times over. To the OP. Do the research yourself and make your own decision.

[Shane]

Originally Posted by OhOneWS6

It is completely relevant. A performance flat tappet motor with higher than stock spring rates can very well require a higher PPM of zinc to prevent cam wear. The cam in a motor with stock or slightly higher spring rates can survive with a lower PPM on zinc.

I'm not going to get in a pissing match about it. It's been hashed out 1000 times over. To the OP. Do the research yourself and make your own decision.

lol ...

[Gene]

One very good reason for not running full synthetic oil in an older engine is that they clean your engine. Now I know that sounds crazy but when they clean an older engine it breaks loose years of metal particles and other particles that your filter cannot trap. And if your running a cellulose(paper) filter it ges even worse, I saw a study that showed that if you run an AC or FRAM or basically any non-synthetic filter you might as well not be running one at all, they cannot trap particles smaller than 20 microns. So I run Valvoline(non-synthetic) and a Mobil 1 synthetic filter.

[treveiger]

Check this out, thats what im putting in my truck.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx

[AusTx68]

Originally Posted by treveiger

Check this out, thats what im putting in my truck.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/amo.aspx

A synthetic with added zinc. You can't go wrong.

I'm running a crate motor in my truck. The manufacturer clearly states DO NOT run synthetic oil unless you add a zinc additive. I would say the zinc argument does hold water.

[70cst]

http://lubriplate.com/webstore/default.aspx

This is what I use...

[70cst]

Originally Posted by 70cst

http://lubriplate.com/webstore/default.aspx

This is what I use...

GPO 15W-40

Zinc and Phosphorus Enhanced
ZDDP Formula
Ideal for High-Performance and Classic Car Engines

I forgot to list what type of oil...

[So.Cal.Super]

Ahh The great oil debate, well here are my 2 cents to add.

First let’s look at Synthetic vs. Dino oil. Synthetic oil is artificially synthesized. Think of it on a molecular level like this. You take a work bench and dump a bag of dimes out, all the dimes are the same size, even and uniformed (I’m not using a micrometer for this debate)
They transfer heat better do to this and provide uniformed lubrication.

Now let’s look at Dino oil or Conventional, Add quarters, pennies, half dollars, dollars, those gold dollars, etc. Now we have oil on a molecular level that even after refined has a whole bunch of different sizes. What this does is transfer heat less efficient and the larger molecules will clump together and allow less seepage / leaking because it provides less gaps for the smaller molecules to pass by.

How I experienced this first hand,
I changed the rear end oil in my 72 and went to a full synthetic, two days later the axel seals were leaking. I drained the oil, refilled with conventional and the leaking stopped. I was able to go almost another 2 years before they started leaking and needed to be replaced.

The saying goes if it leaks with synthetic, if will eventually leak with conventional.

So if you already have an oil burning, seeping, leaking machine. It is not recommended to switch.

As far as the Zinc debate goes.
Zinc has been drastically cut down or almost eliminated from today’s conventional oils due to catalytic converter failure. I would like to know what the conventional oil of the 60’s levels was. For this I have researched and can’t seem to find the Data any more the Hearsay.

Here are some examples of what I have found about Zinc in some of the oils out there.

Rotella T-1 Currently 700 ppm (parts per million) Per Shell it was recently reformulated,
It used to be 1200 ppm.

Castrol won’t release the information on its GTX or GTX High mileage for proprietary reasons except to say it has lower quantities of zinc. They will say their syntec 20w-50 is 1200 ppm and is recommended for flat tappet cams

Mobil 1 10w 30 has a rate of 800 ppm and this oil is used in many cars with catalytic converters with no problem.

Mobil 15-50 has 1200 ppm; this oil seems to be recommended on a lot of exotic sports cars

Valvoline VR1 Racing oil is the highest off the shelf oil I have found and at 1400 ppm it is not recommended for use in vehicles with catalytic converters.

I will add that the Lucas oil engine break in additive when mixed with 4.5 quarts (per manufacture) will give you 5000 ppm zinc.

This still doesn’t end the debate on which oil is better. Everyone will make their choice for their own reasons I just wanted to add what I have found out over the years and am sure will continue to learn as this is debated probably way past my lifetime.

[1969stepside]

valvoline vr1 20w50 is still high zink till the end of next year

[So.Cal.Super]

Originally Posted by 1969stepside

valvoline vr1 20w50 is still high zink till the end of next year

There lowering the zinc?

Damn EPA I bet

[project 67 sub]

they better not... thats what i run grrrr

[JJorgensen52]

I ran synthetic for a bit, but my truck burns so much oil I couldn't afford it so I switched back to convetional.

As to the ZDDP (zinc) debate, I did a LOT of research into this, and what I came up with is that the current synthetic oils (Mobil1, etc) have the same level of ZDDP as the oils that it was originally in back in the early 60's. The problems with non-roller motors only developed in the late 60's when they started building factory motors with radical cams and stronger springs.

Simply put, a factory truck motor with a mild cam and non-performance springs could run on the original ZDDP levels, which are THE SAME as the current levels in synthetic oils.

Once I replace my rings and valve seals so it stops burning, my truck is getting Mobil 1. 2cents

[leddzepp]

I have used Mobil 1 for years in all of my vehicles. My 402 has always had a sticky lifter, that eventually kept tapping non-stop. I added Hyper Lube (ZDDP additive) to my crankcase and the lifter noise went away within 5 mins and has NOT returned since. Made a believer out of me, I ALWAYS use it when changing my oil now.