Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

**jaros44sr** · 05-31-2010, 01:05 PM

Well it all started several weeks ago and I'm at a loss...
Seems like #4 cylinder exhaust rocker arm is sitting askew compared to the rest of them! Don't think its a bent pushrod as I spun the rod and don't see any wobble, maybe a collapsed or sticky lifter. Could just one rocker arm be worn out or out of adjustment? Seems like all the nuts are adjusted about the same depth. If its the rocker arm Jeg's has stamped roller tipped (1.6 ratio) on sale till the end of June for 90 bucks. Maybe worn cam lobe, but always thought it was # 7 or #8 that was the problem

I've used a probe and don't feel any burr on the valve stem above the keeper, so I'm confident that this is something that just happened recently. Maybe I should pull the intake to get a better look

People said not to pay attention to it, but that is just not me. If something is differant, I think it needs some sort of attention...lmk what you think

SB 350 with a hydraulic cam, probably well used engine, but idk. I'm sure it needs a rebuild, but just wanted to get the restore done with this engine in it

Any thoughts would really help, I don't want to ignore the situation

Arad68 · 05-31-2010, 01:59 PM

What is the compression in the cylinder in question? Is the rocker arm stud bent? Waht does the hardware look like on the arm...I.E. The ball and arm?

LONGHAIR · 05-31-2010, 02:17 PM

Askew which way? pictures? What year is this engine? Vortec heads?
The bent stud sounds the most likely from the discription at this point, but how would that have happened? The cam or lifter cannot effect the way the rocker arm sits, only the three points where it touches, the pushrod, the valve stem, the stud/ball can do that.

**jaros44sr** · 05-31-2010, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arad68

What is the compression in the cylinder in question? Is the rocker arm stud bent? Waht does the hardware look like on the arm...I.E. The ball and arm?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Askew which way? pictures? What year is this engine? Vortec heads?
The bent stud sounds the most likely from the discription at this point, but how would that have happened? The cam or lifter cannot effect the way the rocker arm sits, only the three points where it touches, the pushrod, the valve stem, the stud/ball can do that.

good thoughts guys, bent stud, didn't think of that!

Haven't done a compression test yet

Haven't disassembled, so the condition of the parts are yet to be determined

No vortecs, year about 80's, askew to the rear of the engine. Pics to follow

**jaros44sr** · 05-31-2010, 02:56 PM

2.130" outside demension on studs, #2 and # 4 cylinders

Please don't laugh at the condition of the inside of the engine, buildup was due to the PO running the engine with a leaking fuel pump

GASoline71 · 05-31-2010, 02:59 PM

Looks like a lot of metal in the oil... I'd say some cam lobes are going flat.

Gary

bigblock52 · 05-31-2010, 03:37 PM

Is the pressed in rocker arm stud starting to pull out of the head?

**jaros44sr** · 05-31-2010, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigblock52

Is the pressed in rocker arm stud starting to pull out of the head?

didn't know they were pressed in, but that makes sense

LONGHAIR · 05-31-2010, 05:14 PM

It looks like a combination of a stud pulling out and a flat cam. All of that metal came from somewhere....and gas-diluted oil would be a good reason for a bad cam.

red71cheyenne · 05-31-2010, 06:05 PM

Wish I had some advice, but I'm just glad you found it now instead of running down the road several hundred miles from home!

junkyardjohn · 06-09-2010, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

It looks like a combination of a stud pulling out and a flat cam. All of that metal came from somewhere....and gas-diluted oil would be a good reason for a bad cam.

GOOD ADVICE. IF THERES SIVER GUNK UNDER YOUR VALVE COVER, YOU CAN BET YOUR OIL GALLYS ARE FULL OF IT TOO. ALL THOSE LITTLE SHAVINGS JUST MULTIPLY LIKE RABBITS AS YOUR OIL CIRCULATES. THAT MOTORS LOOKS TO BE ON BORROWED TIME EVEN WITHOUT YOUR ROCKER PROBLEM.

IT TAKE PLENTY OF CLEAN OIL FOR ALL THOSE LITTLE PARTS TO SLIDE OFF OF EACH OTHER SEVERAL THOUSAND TIMES EVERY MINUTE.

JOHN

RustyParts · 06-09-2010, 09:05 AM

You might want to check the stud Jaros, if that rocker has run like that for some time it usually cuts a groove in the stud. Good luck.

stevencvn72 · 06-09-2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RustyParts

You might want to check the stud Jaros, if that rocker has run like that for some time it usually cuts a groove in the stud. Good luck.

Totally. You can see it here.

Happened to me! Pulled studs, tapped, and installed screw in studs. My rocker had eventually slipped almost all the way off the valve and was kind of jammed into the gouge. Had this in a couple of spots, some studs that were pulling, and a few bent push rods. I suspect the PO smashed the skinny pedal to the floor too often and too long.

GASoline71 · 06-09-2010, 01:32 PM

Only way to get all the particles out is to tear the engine down completely...

Gary

sinned4me · 06-09-2010, 09:01 PM

Do you have to drill out the stud hole, or can you just tap it after you remove the stud. Do you need a bottom tap

on mine you pull out the old stud and mill the top of the stud boss to a certain height. it also depends if you are running guide plates. you then drill the holes on a drill press holding the head at the correct angle, tap the holes, and install the studs with thread sealant (there is coolant behind stud) and your done.

**jaros44sr** · 06-09-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinned4me

Do you have to drill out the stud hole, or can you just tap it after you remove the stud. Do you need a bottom tap

on mine you pull out the old stud and mill the top of the stud boss to a certain height. it also depends if you are running guide plates. you then drill the holes on a drill press holding the head at the correct angle, tap the holes, and install the studs with thread sealant (there is coolant behind stud) and your done.

Thanks for the info, was kinda hoping to do it on the engine. If that is the case, then I might as well change out to my extra heads

wzuke · 06-10-2010, 12:29 AM

Replace the rocker arm with a self aligning rocker arm.

**jaros44sr** · 06-10-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wzuke

Replace the rocker arm with a self aligning rocker arm.

OK, I'm game...what's that and where do I get one

stevencvn72 · 06-10-2010, 12:47 AM

I never even removed my heads. Pulled the old stud. And tapped the hole very slowly using grease and a magnet to catch shavings. No it's not the right way, but it can be done. Oh yeah, if you use shoulderless screw in studs, there's no need to mill down the stud boss. Just use thread sealer and jam nuts.

LONGHAIR · 06-10-2010, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wzuke

Replace the rocker arm with a self aligning rocker arm.

It's not as easy as that. The original "alignment" was done from the pushrod side. This is either from the slots in the heads, or from the guide-plates that are retained by the screw-in style studs...But if you try to control the rocker arm from the valve stem side (self aligning rocker arms) and the pushrod side at the same time, there will be binding of some kind. Not good....

Hubscrub · 06-10-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wzuke

Replace the rocker arm with a self aligning rocker arm.

X2 my 85 was doing the same thing we pulled the head and took it to the machine shop and found nothing, he told me to get self aligning rocker arms i got them at the local parts place told them late 90's v-8 i believe but i have had no more problems with that anymore and that was 5 or 6 years ago

**jaros44sr** · 06-10-2010, 08:57 PM

All right guys, I'm getting conflicting thoughts here, I'm not saying these self-aligning rocker arms aren't good, or that they didn't work for you, I'm just not ready to try something new to me

Seems like the best fix so far is to pull the stud, freeze the new stud and tap it in and pin it. Then buy a new rocker arm, ball socket, push rod

What do you all think, you've been great so far helping me with the problem

GASoline71 · 06-10-2010, 01:09 PM

Old school way would be to "pin" a new press in stud in place. Insert new stud and drill a hole through the side of the boss and through the stud... then tap in a roll pin.

Gary

**jaros44sr** · 06-10-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Old school way would be to "pin" a new press in stud in place. Insert new stud and drill a hole through the side of the boss and through the stud... then tap in a roll pin.

Gary

That sounds doable, so are you able to tap in the new stud with a 3lb brass sledge

wzuke · 06-11-2010, 12:26 AM

I had the same type of rocker arm misalignment which wore a slot in the stud. I tried several new pushrods and rocker arm/ball sets, they all misaligned almost immediately. I used one self aligning rocker arm. I guess that the wear in the push rod bore and the "slack" in the rocker arm are such that there is no bind. I have driven it every day for more than a year without incident. I did checked the pushrod to make sure there was no scuffing from the pushrod bore and no abnormal wear on the self aligning rocker arm. I agree that there is a may be a chance for a bind so I would make sure to inspect it after I ran it for a few miles.

05-31-2010, 01:05 PM	#1
jaros44sr Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Philadelphia, Pa. 19454 Posts: 9,704	Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... Well it all started several weeks ago and I'm at a loss... Seems like #4 cylinder exhaust rocker arm is sitting askew compared to the rest of them! Don't think its a bent pushrod as I spun the rod and don't see any wobble, maybe a collapsed or sticky lifter. Could just one rocker arm be worn out or out of adjustment? Seems like all the nuts are adjusted about the same depth. If its the rocker arm Jeg's has stamped roller tipped (1.6 ratio) on sale till the end of June for 90 bucks. Maybe worn cam lobe, but always thought it was # 7 or #8 that was the problem I've used a probe and don't feel any burr on the valve stem above the keeper, so I'm confident that this is something that just happened recently. Maybe I should pull the intake to get a better look People said not to pay attention to it, but that is just not me. If something is differant, I think it needs some sort of attention...lmk what you think SB 350 with a hydraulic cam, probably well used engine, but idk. I'm sure it needs a rebuild, but just wanted to get the restore done with this engine in it Any thoughts would really help, I don't want to ignore the situation __________________ Semper Fi...Uncle Sam, you da man All parts offered to help are free, unless otherwise noted Dont try this stuff in my build thread, unless you have 55 years of mechanical OTJ training SAFETY FIRST AS usual, off topic They say your mind goes second, can't remember the first Jim Last edited by jaros44sr; 05-31-2010 at 01:12 PM.

05-31-2010, 02:56 PM	#5
jaros44sr Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Philadelphia, Pa. 19454 Posts: 9,704	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... 2.130" outside demension on studs, #2 and # 4 cylinders Please don't laugh at the condition of the inside of the engine, buildup was due to the PO running the engine with a leaking fuel pump __________________ Semper Fi...Uncle Sam, you da man All parts offered to help are free, unless otherwise noted Dont try this stuff in my build thread, unless you have 55 years of mechanical OTJ training SAFETY FIRST AS usual, off topic They say your mind goes second, can't remember the first Jim

05-31-2010, 03:37 PM	#7
bigblock52 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: murrieta, ca Posts: 7	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... Is the pressed in rocker arm stud starting to pull out of the head?

05-31-2010, 06:05 PM	#10
red71cheyenne Back in the sticks Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Fordland, MO Posts: 3,188	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... Wish I had some advice, but I'm just glad you found it now instead of running down the road several hundred miles from home! __________________ 1971 Cheyenne C-10 w/700R4 and Tuned Port Injection 1969 K5 Blazer w/Tuned Port 2010 2SS/RS Flaming Orange Camaro 2011 K1500 Suburban 2014 K1500 Pickup 2008 Nissan Altima? The wifes' hoopty

06-09-2010, 09:05 AM	#12
RustyParts Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: Wyman, Kentucky Posts: 403	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... You might want to check the stud Jaros, if that rocker has run like that for some time it usually cuts a groove in the stud. Good luck. __________________ 1972 GMC Jimmy, 4WD, 454 CI, 350 Turbo, 4" lift, 35" tires The math teacher said my son "Bubba" could be a mathmatical genius. cause he's got 13 fingers!

05-31-2010, 01:59 PM	#2
Arad68 Trucks N Tranzams Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 816	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... What is the compression in the cylinder in question? Is the rocker arm stud bent? Waht does the hardware look like on the arm...I.E. The ball and arm? __________________ Don '68 Chevy LB 383 TH400/GV/373 posi '56 Chevy 4WD SWB '64 Chevy short stepside '79 Trans Am 455/TH2004R/12blt/4whldisc 95 Kia (Wifes car) 2002 S-10 extended cab pickup "God punishes small sins immediately" Last edited by Arad68; 05-31-2010 at 02:00 PM. Reason: More info

06-09-2010, 09:01 PM	#15
sinned4me Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: topeka, ks Posts: 49	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... Do you have to drill out the stud hole, or can you just tap it after you remove the stud. Do you need a bottom tap on mine you pull out the old stud and mill the top of the stud boss to a certain height. it also depends if you are running guide plates. you then drill the holes on a drill press holding the head at the correct angle, tap the holes, and install the studs with thread sealant (there is coolant behind stud) and your done. Last edited by sinned4me; 06-09-2010 at 09:01 PM.

06-10-2010, 12:29 AM	#17
wzuke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Marion, IL Posts: 112	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... Replace the rocker arm with a self aligning rocker arm.

06-10-2010, 12:47 AM	#19
stevencvn72 Kill Bill...et Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Winchestertonfieldville, Wa Posts: 366	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... I never even removed my heads. Pulled the old stud. And tapped the hole very slowly using grease and a magnet to catch shavings. No it's not the right way, but it can be done. Oh yeah, if you use shoulderless screw in studs, there's no need to mill down the stud boss. Just use thread sealer and jam nuts. __________________ -Steve I ♥ Grease '67 Chev stepper http://youtu.be/38p_2Iu2fd0 Last edited by stevencvn72; 06-10-2010 at 12:53 AM. Reason: I forgot!

06-10-2010, 08:57 PM	#22
jaros44sr Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Philadelphia, Pa. 19454 Posts: 9,704	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... All right guys, I'm getting conflicting thoughts here, I'm not saying these self-aligning rocker arms aren't good, or that they didn't work for you, I'm just not ready to try something new to me Seems like the best fix so far is to pull the stud, freeze the new stud and tap it in and pin it. Then buy a new rocker arm, ball socket, push rod What do you all think, you've been great so far helping me with the problem __________________ Semper Fi...Uncle Sam, you da man All parts offered to help are free, unless otherwise noted Dont try this stuff in my build thread, unless you have 55 years of mechanical OTJ training SAFETY FIRST AS usual, off topic They say your mind goes second, can't remember the first Jim

06-11-2010, 12:26 AM	#25
wzuke Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Marion, IL Posts: 112	Re: Hello, my name is jaros44sr and I have a problem... I had the same type of rocker arm misalignment which wore a slot in the stud. I tried several new pushrods and rocker arm/ball sets, they all misaligned almost immediately. I used one self aligning rocker arm. I guess that the wear in the push rod bore and the "slack" in the rocker arm are such that there is no bind. I have driven it every day for more than a year without incident. I did checked the pushrod to make sure there was no scuffing from the pushrod bore and no abnormal wear on the self aligning rocker arm. I agree that there is a may be a chance for a bind so I would make sure to inspect it after I ran it for a few miles.



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