Frustrated: Talk me out of selling

[GMCjunkie]

I know I would regret it at some point, but I am SOOOOO frustrated with my truck. I had the on going issue with the starter and now it seems its a never ending issue. Its binding up again. The guy I sent it to, put an ACDelco starter on it and it started good (but never great) now its back to not starting at all. Ive had my truck back for over a year (after NOT having it for almost 3 while in the paint shop) and havent even put a hundred miles on it. Im afraid the fly wheel is chewed up from all the ill fitting starters thats been tried on it and with my new job, I dont have the time (or know how) to do anything with it, and I dont have the money to take it back to the mechanic. Im sick of paying insurance on a truck that wont even move out of its tracks. I know some of yall have been where I am. Encouragement or ideas please. Rant mode officially off.

[Indyuke]

What was the original issue with the starter? Shimming, wrong tooth count, etc?
What engine do you have, and does it have a flywheel or flexplate?

[jhwkns]

Don't do it Jodie! It's something simple.

Isn't there someone in FL that can help this good lady, and long standing board member out?

[domeier]

I don't think I'd own one of these trucks if I couldn't work on it myself.

1. They're old. They need attention.
2. I can't afford the shop rate.
3. The mechs in the shop are on the clock, so they don't have as much motivation to get things right as the owner does.
4. I like wrenching my truck. Gives me some sort of hippy-zen inner peace. Forces me to slow down, and focus on the task at hand. It's a form of meditation, of communing with Chevy All Powerful, (peace be upon her name.)
5. Okay, that's mostly bs. I just can't afford to have someone else fix my cars.

Maybe you should give a shot at fixing it yourself? For the price of one hour's shop time, you could buy a socket and wrench set, shop manual and a bag of rags. And then every time you turn the key, you'll get all hippy-zen-satisfied and say om om om, and you'll invite your friends over to drink beer and listen to that starter crank - Just listen to it crank, you baboons!

Good luck.

Paul

[biggestjohn]

The value of these trucks are going up, finally. Oh and you have a great Suburban.

[Autoblueprint]

Originally Posted by domeier

I don't think I'd own one of these trucks if I couldn't work on it myself.

X2...and...these trucks need their own garage space.

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

Encouragement or ideas please.

Sign-up for an auto course at your local community college. Work on your truck's problem(s) with the instructor's help on student shop night.

I know quite a few people who do this because they can't afford to buy a shop full of tools or they don't have a garage space...or both...and they have built nice vehicles for the price of tuition.

These trucks are a hobby and this hobby requires hours upon hours of research, learning, buying parts / tools and wrenching. That's what a hobby is, that's where your spare time goes.

[dan42]

Yeah, if that's the only problem, I wouldn't consider selling it just yet. There are a lot of guys (like me) that work too many hours to spend the time crawling under my truck to fix something that it would take someone else half the time to do. You just need to do a little research and talk to people in the industry and find a guy who's good, reasonable, and honest - and you'll be just fine. I would learn as much as you can, though - you need to know what the mechanic is talking about, you may even want to learn how to do something if you were to actually do it. Our trucks are mutts of a sort; most of them have different motors, etc. then what they came from the factory from and you have to know the specifics of those as well. First step is to be patient and find someone that is willing to work on your vehicle and be reasonable and grateful when you're working with him - you'll be a lot happier.

[bowtie72]

My guess would be wrong flywheel tooth count. Bad news if this is the problem you need to pull engine or trans to fix. But could be a simple starter shim. I think the guys on her and I can help you do that yourself. If you were in Co I would come look at it for you. Good luck. Start from the begining and tell us what it did first.

[Classic Heartbeat]

It is an easy thing to do to pull the dust shield and check the flywheel to see if the teeth are chewed up. If so I would replace it and go with a high torque minny starter. Finding good rebuilt starters is a tough thing to do. Most I have found are already suffering from heat soak or just junk. I am sure one of the members on this board that is closer to where you live will be more than happy to help you. WES

[leddzepp]

I cannot believe you are still having issues with the starter. Junk the OEM, get a mini-starter, and forget about it. I have used mini starters on both of my trucks....never had one single problem after that. They cost more, but they are worth it cause they work.

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

I cannot believe you are still having issues with the starter. Junk the OEM, get a mini-starter, and forget about it. I have used mini starters on both of my trucks....never had one single problem after that. They cost more, but they are worth it cause they work.

Funny I had nothing but trouble from one of the GMPP mini starters (hamburger rebox), nothing but pain and suffering. In fact my friend got so tried of hearing it he gave me a used cast iron nose starter off a big block.....problem gone and never to return.

Now I have used Tiltons with great success, but boy are they expensive.

Originally Posted by eightbanger

Oh yeah, if your flexplate has a weight welded to the outer edge then it's externally ballanced (see above pic) and that means 168 tooth count, if no weight then it has 153 tooth count.

WHAT????? Not so at all, there are internal and external balanced 168 tooth fly and flexplates. I know most of my vehicles have had 168 tooth flexplates (my 68 chevelle had a 152 but I changed to 168) and all with the exception of the 406 is internal balanced.

The block year is not relevant to the starter, because a 1971 and a 1976 will use the same number from the rebuiders. Check the mounting pad of the starter on the block to see if it is crack or repaired (blocks get dropped all the time in the starter mount) and see if it has actual starter bolts mounting the starter (no you can NOT use just any old 3/8 bolt for the starter).

Most of the current rebuilt starters out there have a offshore cast nose cone that was reversed engineered from a worn out 40 year old GM one, suprise the new is a POS. I know you had a GM Delco put on, but GM's delco division is a reboxer of Taiwan parts nowadays, for the older vehicles. I used to use only AC Delco points/coil/dist. cap/rotor, about 10 years ago Delco went to buying that stuff from Taiwan and it is crap. I use only old cast iron nose cone starters and get them rebuilt myself that way they always fit the block the same.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

Funny I had nothing but trouble from one of the GMPP mini starters (hamburger rebox), nothing but pain and suffering. In fact my friend got so tried of hearing it he gave me a used cast iron nose starter off a big block.....problem gone and never to return.

Now I have used Tiltons with great success, but boy are they expensive.

I have never used a GMPP mini starter. I have only used Hitachi and Powermaster. Zero problems. I recommend Powermaster, their customer service and technical support is second to none.

[406 Q-ship]

Originally Posted by leddzepp

I have never used a GMPP mini starter. I have only used Hitachi and Powermaster. Zero problems. I recommend Powermaster, their customer service and technical support is second to none.

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

To each his own.

When something works like it is supposed to and gives me no problems, that makes it better in my book. I will never use an OEM starter again. If you like them and they work for you that's great. If I ever have a problem with my mini starter out in the middle of nowhere (and I doubt I will) I will call AAA

[k5hart]

Originally Posted by 406 Q-ship

After 1994 GM trucks got the Hitachi starter......but man they were really expensive back then. Never used the powermaster so I can't comment on them. There is no reason to have to switch to a mini starter, Chevys have been using the same kind of starter for 30 years and they worked fine. IF the stock starter grinds due to some misalignment then a Mini will have issues too. It seems to me that the starter is not holding on the mounting pad at the block which will come back on any starter installed. I try always use the factory designs for 3 reasons:

1. The OEMs paid the engineers alot of money to design those parts to fit correctly. Most aftermarket stuff just does not go under the tight scrunity.

2. Ease of obtaining parts, if my truck dies in "resume speed" Kansas, the local shop can rebuild, or get a replacement in a few hours. Things like a starter/waterpump it will be on the shelf even in the most backwater town. Try that when any of the aftermarket starter expire in Mexican Hat, Utah, you'll be towing the vehicle alot of miles or finding out if the local motel allows you to recieve UPS deliveries and then wait till Summit/Jegs sends one (you better hope they have one on the shelf too).

3. There is alot more durability testing of the OEM equipment over what the aftermarket sells.

To me just because it is sold as being better, does not mean that is so. I work in the aftermarket industry too.

I have to say that I agree with a lot of this. Just didn't want to say anything to keep from starting an argument over mini starters vs. OEM. It really sounds to me there is another problem going on. She has tried too many starters, shims, wiring, etc. I would almost bet a mini starter would also have the same problem. This is coming from someone who is using a mini starter now. But because of headers and high compression.

Good point on checking the mounting pad. Junkie when you are under it next make sure it's clean and flat. Also try new bolts (which I think you did).

[big mike71]

Why doesn't somebody that lives by her go and look at it.

[bigguy69]

I am with everybody else. Mini starter and check the flywheel. If you don't need it to drive just take your time.
Posted via Mobile Device

[LockDoc]

-
Here are the threads on her starter problems. They may not be in Chronological order. It's been going on for quite a while and I would be frustrated too...

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=412513

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=414393

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=440954

http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=450191

LockDoc

[Steve Hafner]

I had the same problem with mine, when I first bought it fifteen years ago - it finally was fixed once it was shimmed ( they had to use a lot more then it was supposed to have, but it's been FINE ever since )

[GMCjunkie]

Thanks LockDoc, that saved me from alot of 'splaining. I have tools, I have the shop/ work space. Im not asking anyone to come and fix it for me. I know Im whining, big time. Im just at a point where Im disgusted. I trust the guy that put the ACDelco starter on it, hes an older guy, hes owned these trucks in the past. He is very patient, and would even try to explain to me how to fix it myself, even if it meant him losing the sale. Honestly, I didnt know there was a difference in a flex plate and a fly wheel. Last time I looked, my...whatever it is, flywheel? was ok, and the guy, Don, who put the starter on said that it was a little worn, but nothing to really address at the time. I cannot physically manage to drop the transmission, even if I did have the time or the money to do it. Ive almost decided to just pull the insurance on it and put a "non-op" on it for now. Thanks everyone.

[vectorit]

Please do not sell your burb for this reason.
There have been so many times, for me where I came to a boiling point and wanted to sell.

Best thing for me was "non-op" the registration, put a cover on her and put it out of my mind. My burb was on a non-op reg for years at a time, mainly due to me just not having the time/space/money/energy to do anything with it.

In your case, non op the registration and take a break from thinking about it.
Then research the problem at your leisure, no pressure just learn when you are in the mood. Maybe save some pennies for new parts and shop costs, for when you decide to get going on finishing up your baby.

[Boog]

I feel your frustration Jodie. It's hard to believe your truck still has this problem. A good bit of time has passed since all this began. Without reading all those posts again to refresh our memories it would be helpful to restate exactly what it does and what's been done so far to correct it. Seems like it started fine before it went to the paint shop but began acting up right after getting it back. Is that correct? Explain "binding up" please.

[OhOneWS6]

Originally Posted by GMCjunkie

...Honestly, I didnt know there was a difference in a flex plate and a fly wheel. Last time I looked, my...whatever it is, flywheel? ...

Automatic trans = flexplate
Manual trans = flywheel.

[landsurvey1]

You will need to fix it even if you sell it imo. If you are like me, you have a considerable amount of money invested in your truck. If a future buyer can't start the truck, you are taking a risk of a lower asking price than what it is worth. Lets face it, you will never get what its worth, but don't add fuel to the fire. Just my .02

[eightbanger]

I thought you went with a Mini Starter when they took it to the shop last time...so now, in my cross voice with finger waving...."for the last time, please get a high torque mini starter" and if the teeth on the flex plate are damaged then replace that too, and baring something else going on that we're not aware of because we can't see it, you should be good to go...and don't sell.

Oh yeah, if your flexplate has a weight welded to the outer edge then it's externally ballanced (see above pic) and that means 168 tooth count, if no weight then it has 153 tooth count.