The difference between cars and trucks

[davepl]

A year or two ago, to start my project, I picked up a 1970 with a 396, buckets, console, and air-conditioning. It also had a number of other options, it was a solid one-family vehicle with no rust whatsoever, and it was in almost completely untouched, unmolested condition. For $6500.

That's a truck. And it's not an amazing story.

But now consider a younger person, in their late teens or early 20s, wanting to do the same with any 'desirable' musclecar.

What are the odds of his finding an unmolested, one-family, no-rust, buckets & console, air conditioned 1970 396 Chevelle?

Sadly, I think for the most part you're looking at already-restored vehicles or completely clapped out rust buckets with Chinese chrome air cleaners and corrugated one-size-fits-nothing upper rad hoses, big yellow Accel coils (yes, I had one too once), the wrong motor, and so on. And that's your best case. Most cars you'd find would need more than underhood accessories to return them to proper service.

While it's sad for the kids trying to get into the hobby who want a car, for those of into trucks, this is still "the good old days", as evidenced by the threads that pop up here every week with a new score as nice or nicer than my own.

Granted, I searched for 3 years for the truck I described in a short box Sierra Grande. I did find a 2500 Sierra Grande Custom Camper, which I now love more than I would a short-box half-ton, even if it's less desirable to others. While they're not falling from the trees if you have specific tastes, but how hard is it to find a 67-72 truck vs, to use my example, a 67-72 Chevelle?

I think there are a few main factors:
1) Cars were cooler before trucks were, so they cycled through the hobby much earlier
2) Trucks are more durable
3) Trucks were used for work, not merely transportation, and didn't go out of fashion as soon as square headlights or Collonade windows came along
4) They made millions of them (they made millions of Impalas and Caprices too though, you don't see them almost daily or weekly like we do trucks)

There are probably others, and I'm curious what others think might have led us here.

[GRX]

Originally Posted by davepl

I think there are a few main factors:
1) Cars were cooler before trucks were, so they cycled through the hobby much earlier
2) Trucks are more durable
3) Trucks were used for work, not merely transportation, and didn't go out of fashion as soon as square headlights or Collonade windows came along
4) They made millions of them (they made millions of Impalas and Caprices too though, you don't see them almost daily or weekly like we do trucks)

There are probably others, and I'm curious what others think might have led us here.

I agree with the above except for #2. Far as rust, wiring, paint, and other things go, trucks are no more durable than cars. For years trucks were seen as functional vehicles. Now they have entered the fashion phase. As evidenced by the proliferation of drops, big chrome wheels, and furniture quality wood beds. True guys have been doing that for years. But now it seems to be the norm rather than the exception.

[CRMW]

I think trucks of this vintage, up until they became "cool" a few years ago, tended to be second vehicles. They were used for working etc. but when it was time to take Ma and the Kids to town for Sunday diner, alot of people hopped into the car.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Your #4 is one of the biggest reasons combined with stupidity.

There was only something like 843,000 67-69 Camaros. GM built almost that many trucks in 1972 alone.

Then factor in what I like to call the "idiot" factor. What happens when someone buys a new Camaro? They romp the piss out of it, race it, WRECK IT. Nobody knew in 1969 that those cars would still be around almost 50 years later as beloved classics, they were just a fun new car. I can't even imagine the number of cars that were wrecked doing stupid stuff, racing, turned into drag cars, etc.

Put all those factors and there really aren't that many left, hence a high price.

Most people weren't out racing their I6-3.73-3 OTT trucks

In my opinion (and one of the largest reasons I bought one) the 65-66 Mustang COUPES are the most affordable pony/muscle car there is. One of the reasons? A lot of them were basic 2 barrel C codes or I6 cars... and Ford only sold something like a mere 1.3 million of them... It is still very much possible on a large scale to still buy a high quality driver and full blown show car in the 10-16K range. You can even pick up a decent project car for 2-3K still. A project camaro? 6-8K. The fastbacks have exploded in price, but the coupes have stayed "cheap". I bought a great rust free car for 13.5K in 2011. I wanted a 67/68 Camaro but couldn't justify the 22-25K for a car in the same condition.

I bought my 67 C10 in 1996 way before these trucks exploded in popularity. I bought it because grandpa had a 72 and I fell in love with it... and it was stupid cheap. It was a running/driving truck for $1,400.

[Vintage Windmills]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Your #4 is one of the biggest reasons combined with stupidity.

There was only something like 843,000 67-69 Camaros. GM built almost that many trucks in 1972 alone.

Then factor in what I like to call the "idiot" factor. What happens when someone buys a new Camaro? They romp the piss out of it, race it, WRECK IT. Nobody knew in 1969 that those cars would still be around almost 50 years later as beloved classics, they were just a fun new car. I can't even imagine the number of cars that were wrecked doing stupid stuff, racing, turned into drag cars, etc.

Put all those factors and there really aren't that many left, hence a high price.

Most people weren't out racing their I6-3.73-3 OTT trucks

What you guys are saying definitely applies to the 2wd trucks, especially non bbc ones. It does not apply to the 4wd's. It seems the 4x4's were beat to death and used up and rare to begin with. Try finding an unmolested one of those! Production of 4x4 chevy pickups didn't exceed 10,000 until 1969 or so, and even then, not huge numbers. The lure to be used in inclement weather and becomes bubbas smash toy were just too great. There were more Z28's built than K trucks.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Your #4 is one of the biggest reasons combined with stupidity.

There was only something like 843,000 67-69 Camaros. GM built almost that many trucks in 1972 alone.

This.

Not only sheer production volume, but product lifecycle plays a part in that perspective.

Davepl - in your sample model year range of 67-72 there was (of course) one generation of trucks, but by comparison there are three generations of Chevelles represented (66-67; 68-69; 70-72).

Squarebodies went from '73 to '87 (for LD) and beyond, which was previously unheard of/unthinkable, for a total volume of about 15 million. There was a lot of change happening in the world while we kept pumping out that same body style.

K

[70cst]

I think in 1970 there was a big GM Strike so the production numbers in 70 are not that high. Plus to have 402 BB which you have ... with AC and buckets makes your truck a much lower production number.

I bought my truck in 2000 for about $2400 but needed a full restoration. Finding a nice truck such as your is a treasure find.

If my truck was a muscle car ... I would not be able to afford it.

My 1970cst 402BB is my version of a muscle car.

[70cst]

davepl ... you might find this a good read.


http://www.sporttruck.com/techarticl...pickup_trucks/

[dads longhorn]

I inherited my dads 71 longhorn and I think it's in very good condition. He bought it new to use on a small "ranch" in Idaho after retiring and to carry a slide in camper. He fits the older male, ranch, RV stereotype. He took very good care of it (incłuding using used motor oil on the wood bed that preserved it perfectly.) He was also of a generation that knew the depression era, so he grew up knowing to take care of what he owned. This was before credit and planned obsolescence.
Only 3331 longhorns were built in 1971 and I have a really good one that has a known history of excellent care, one owner, my dad and I'm taking care of it and planning to continue its good care. Got the oil and filter changed yesterday and spent another 2 hours under the engine scraping off 43 year old goop (guess he didn't clean that area much)!

[Justin@EntropyRad]

give it time.the c10s are creeping up in price daily. It might take a few years to get to Camaro pricing..but it might happen eventually

I'm still on the fence about building a C10 or Nova for the next round..but if I choose the car, I'll have to do the less-desirable 4dr versions of my favorite muscle, as I can't afford the coupes

[special-K]

Originally Posted by davepl

...There are probably others, and I'm curious what others think might have led us here.

I've always been here

As for the reasons, just my personal preference that suits my lifestyle. I like a balance of function and beauty. I've always liked the look of trucks and they are certainly functional. I've always said,"A truck can do what a car does but a car can't do what a truck does". I can make a living out of them, move to a new home, help friends, take a girl out on a date, get off the beaten path, haul a camper, make it to the ski slope for fresh powder, go surf fishing, haul home the firewood, tow a car out of the ditch, bring home a motor from the machine shop, on and on...

These trucks have always been cool. Just most people didn't realize it till more recently. most likely from greater exposure through the internet, expanded TV programming, and magazines.

[Willowrun]

If you look at who was buying trucks during this era a large portion of those buyers were older men, and a lot of them were farmers. Many of my trucks came from farms including my second truck which my grandfather (a farmer) handed down to me. Farmers know how to take care of equipment and typically had a building to park the truck in when not in use. When it was used it was to the local coffee shop in the morning to talk baseball with other farmers or to drive around and look at the competition's fields. They had larger farm trucks for the heavy hauling. Now that small farming operations are almost non-existent, I'm sure this trend has changed, or at least the volume is down.
Also, as stated, trucks always have a funtion other than hauling people so I think people are more apt to hang on to them than send them to the scrapper like what happened to so many of the cars produced.

[factorystock]

Originally Posted by Willowrun

If you look at who was buying trucks during this era a large portion of those buyers were older men, and a lot of them were farmers.

Historically, there were always commericial and agriculture buyers, but what was beginning to change in this era was the personel use buyer. Yes, Midwest farmers bought a lot of pickups for use on farms, but many pickups during this era were sold to surburnites, who wanted a second dual use vehicle and wanted it equipped the way his car came, with auto, power brakes and steering etc. Another big trend was the growing RV market, many pickups were bought in this era to haul campers. I have noticed the pickups used to haul a shell or camper are usually found in the best overall condition.

[67ChevyRedneck]

I completely agree... I mentioned in another thread recently that I can't recall the last time I've seen a real deal 4x4 longbed, let alone the ridiculously rare (not cut down, not a frame swap) shortbed K10.

I also mentioned that ironically, everyone wants a 2wd blazer and most of the blazers were 4x4s. 69 was the first year for the blazer and they were only offered as 4x4. A 2wd version was offered in 70 and from 70-72 only 5,619 2wd blazers were built. TOTAL.

[CG]

I think it boils down to this for a young person that wants in the old car/truck hobby today. You gotta be a DIY person.

First car I bought was a 57 Chevy in 1975 (I think lol) it was cheap. I thought it was really old at the time, 18 years lol. Deuce coupes were 43 years old, and as much as I would have liked to have one, they were too much money for my young wallet. If I wanted one I would have had to buy a very sad one and build it myself.

64 Mustangs are 51 years old, 67 Camaros are 48 years old, 72 Chevy trucks are 43 years old. Decent ones of any of these rides are going to be too much for todays young persons wallet. If they want one they will have to build it themselves.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

About 20 years ago you could still find a 68-72 GM around every corner. Not any more. I probably see one a week.

[CG]

Originally Posted by 71CHEVYSHORTBED402

About 20 years ago you could still find a 68-72 GM around every corner. Not any more. I probably see one a week.

My job requires quite a bit of driving here in the greater Seattle area (60 mile radius). I see these trucks every day. In the city, out in the rural areas, and I still see a large amount of them being used commercially.

They must have sold a lot more of them up here in the NW

[cooperhw]

My thought on this is that "Cars are more popular than trucks". There I said it. Probably always will be.
Yes trucks are gaining ground and value, but look at the collector car market place. Mostly cars go through the big auctions. Yes a few trucks (and they were probably top tier trucks to get a spot in the auction), but as a rule cars bring and command more money.

I hate to admit it but I have over 40K in a 67 Chevelle.
I can't see myself "EVER" putting that much into a truck. Just me. Not saying it's right, just my opinion.

[hamjet]

I can understand why 4x4s didn't last here in the northeast. In 1979 I had a 69 blazer CST that I bought with a plow and used it myself for plowing till the frame and body litterly fell apart from road salt. Ended up scrapping it. The truck was only 15 years old at its death, so it didn't register what its value would be down the road. (hindsight). Boy I wish I had that Blazer now..

[Coley]

Some interesting points here.
For myself, I'm constantly reassured that some good ones can always be found and I base that on not only what shows up here in Craigslist references but what I also constantly find myself.
The bigger challenge for hobby continuity beyond our family here or 'demographic', lies in getting the younger generation interested...no easy feat.
One thing often missed here not only in truck pricing but also in parts pricing is the march of inflation. It seems we still all want to find our trucks for $3500.....this thinking often is still left over from the 90's.....when some of us maybe snagged a few in that price range. If you apply a little honest inflation to that figure...you should count on at least spending something around $5000+ for any reasonable truck. That said...they still show up for less which, in my opinion,.....makes them a great deal....and certainly keeps me from complaining about the availability issue under most conditions.
That same issue applies to parts.....they are allowed to increase in price too if all things hold true from a financial standpoint. We seem to be quite excited about the rise in value of our trucks but still somehow find a way to lament the cost of parts...used, and new....and definitely don't like seeing the guys at swap meets asking more than $50 for anything. $50 these days....is not a lot of money in many respects...and $100 today is the $20 of the 80's in many cases.
I also agree tho'...that there are still some good classic car buys out there for those that want to get into the hobby and yes, the mustangs are a good example.
Interesting threads guys.
All Good
Coley

[flashed]

cooperhw ,same here ,I have that much or more in my wife's Malibu Convertible ,dont know nor care how much in the trucks .Even 4 door cars are getting restored today due to everything else being un affordable .I also still see a lot of younger guys and gals into the old stuff ,we have several driving classics on our university campus .

[ho70]

trucks ere either a second vehicle or a work vehicle. Muscle cars were a drive the crap out of car and once gas prices rose-they were out the door,or if you had a family, then sell for a family car. So muscle cars changed hands many, many times. And a third owner muscle car was cheap enough for a teenager to buy and .......Truck owners were a different crowd, and yes many were driven buy us, the kids and driven the crap out of, but dare you bring it home broken. Todays younger kids have the cars they grew up with to buy cheap, like 2000 trans ams or corrolas. Our 70's cars are 45 years old and time has thinned the market, so you have to pay for a vintage ride.

[Youey]

I for one found a 70 mustang grande coupe one owner about 6 years ago when I was just getting into the hobby, paid 5k for a car that was in decent shape but I knew I wanted to do with it and make it mine. The cars and trucks are still out there just getting very hard to find. The truck who knows how many times it was sold before I got it. I think trucks will always command a value, no where near what muscle cars will but it's a good thing, keeps it an entree level vehicle to restore and enjoy.

[Spartan]

I've always been into 4wd iron. I like cars too but my beer budget keeps me away from that GTO I've always wanted.
Anything old has character IMHO. Mercedes Porsche Chevy ford dodge all good if it's older than me lol.

[Eddie H.]

I have had several of these trucks over the years, and some classics and muscle cars from the 50's and 60's that I kick myself for not hanging on to. I am an old geezer and was fortunate enough to appreciate and drive these vehicles when they were new. I feel a little sorry for kids wanting to get into the hobby now. It is much tougher now than it was when I got into the hobby. Good project cars and trucks could be had for next to nothing back then. I remember back in the 70's a friend offered to give me his 68 396 Camaro because he was tired of buying gas for it. He was in Tennesee and I didn't want to have to drive it back to Texas. Kicked my self many times for that one.