new to the site... am i screwed or not - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

thebatii · 10-05-2011, 01:36 AM

Heres what happened, the tranny side freeze plug was leaking over the top of my starter on my 1965 c10 causing issues. When looking it over i put a tee shirt over the starter so it would stop leaking in my face, when i got out from under the truck I re conected the battery and went to start it and forgot all about the tee shirt......hey you guessed it the starter sucked the tee up between the bellhousing and the starter snapping off the block covering the starter bolt.

see photos .

It chipped the block up so high that the bolt not longer nas enough thread to thread up. So I took a temp/#8 all thread and put it in the block but how do I cover the open side? Jb weld?

It gets worse The piece that broke off is now missing and I can't find it. is it time to look for a new block? can you weld castiron?

onequickchevy · 10-05-2011, 09:07 AM

Yeah you are, but i'd try to run it. Put some locktite in that puppy after cleaning it up and give it a shot. I would hunt a block, but I think it will work for a while anyway.
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erock805 · 10-05-2011, 09:17 AM

Agreed...either way its going to be some work. Loctite and look for an engine. Yes you can weld cast iron, Lottsa of people will say no, I have seen it done before with good results, The key is welding very hot. Then you will have to rethread that hole. Is the motor worth all of that? Path of least resistance might but putting in a used motor. Much quicker and easier. Also what you do depends how much the truck gets used...Is this an every day driver? Perhaps this is a good time for upgrades.

TheDark1 · 10-05-2011, 09:34 AM

What type of tranny is that? If it's a manual, switch to a stock (Mid 1960's) bellhousing and use the stock style starter. They bolt to the bellhousing, not the block.--jeff

**MikeN** · 10-05-2011, 09:40 AM

Looks like an automatic transmission and flexplate...

crazy longhorn · 10-05-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDark1

What type of tranny is that? If it's a manual, switch to a stock (Mid 1960's) bellhousing and use the stock style starter. They bolt to the bellhousing, not the block.--jeff

I was going to suggest the same thing! I see its an auto trans, but if the engine has a lot of miles left in her, you might consider swapping to a stick shift....IMHO, they are more fun to drive anywhoo

crazyL

TheDark1 · 10-05-2011, 09:45 AM

Ah yes, I see the flex plate now.

64fleetside · 10-05-2011, 12:05 PM

Have it welded.

Marv D · 10-05-2011, 02:04 PM

The piece missing is going to be the butt-kicker. If you had it, you 'can' weld cast, but it's not cheap. Todays epoxies can be just darn near as strong. If youhad the piece, I'd epoxy it together, with w stud, and be cautious when you tighten a nut on that side.

In the end,, a new block is in your future I'm afraid.

pope · 10-05-2011, 07:03 PM

Ewww! Either way if you want to weld it you will most likely have to pull the block, and the shop will want the piece to do it. Have seen that done before and repairs like that do work fine. Good Luck!

thebatii · 10-05-2011, 09:37 PM

Ive looked all over for the chunk that fell off and cant find it anywhere the trans is a turbo 400 I was thinking layers of jb weld I bought a new straight line bolt starter instead of the offset one that was on it ...so the starter lines up nice i just need to close that gap....cliff lol

jayman68 · 10-08-2011, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebatii

Ive looked all over for the chunk that fell off and cant find it anywhere the trans is a turbo 400 I was thinking layers of jb weld I bought a new straight line bolt starter instead of the offset one that was on it ...so the starter lines up nice i just need to close that gap....cliff lol

Have you already put the new starter in? The stagger bolt starter and the straight bolt starter are made for different diameter flywheels, It may not work, unless I missunderstand your description of straight line and offset. Hope it works for you.

crazy longhorn · 10-09-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayman68

Have you already put the new starter in? The stagger bolt starter and the straight bolt starter are made for different diameter flywheels, It may not work, unless I missunderstand your description of straight line and offset. Hope it works for you.

If I understand the original post the same way you do Jay, no the straight pattern starter will not work inplace of that staggered pattern starter( it takes a different flexplate). The boich of the problem, is that both pattern starters use the same OUTER bolt hole, & that is the bad one. There are 2 bolt holes inside(straight vs staggered), & the flex plate is 14" diam (staggered), or 12 3/4 diam (straight pattern). crazyL

storm9c1 · 10-11-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy longhorn

If I understand the original post the same way you do Jay, no the straight pattern starter will not work inplace of that staggered pattern starter( it takes a different flexplate). The boich of the problem, is that both pattern starters use the same OUTER bolt hole, & that is the bad one. There are 2 bolt holes inside(straight vs staggered), & the flex plate is 14" diam (staggered), or 12 3/4 diam (straight pattern). crazyL

Well technically there are aftermarket starters that have a straight pattern mount but the starter motor itself can be "clocked" to work with either flexplate/flywheel type. But you are right, that doesn't help when the common bolt hole is busted.

I knew a guy who had the same problem. He took a 1/4" piece of steel plate, drilled three holes in it, two for the good bosses in the block and one at the location of the broken boss. Then he ground a notch in the block about the size of a nut. Then he literally ground 1/4" off the starter! Bolted the starter on with the plate and grade 8 bolts, put the nut on the back side where he made the notch.......and it worked until he got rid of the vehicle a few months later. It was a no-weld job. And you can grind that notch out for the nut with a rotary tool, so no need to pull the engine. I'm sure replacing the starter again later would be a pain, you'd have to grind the new starter down 1/4".

crazy longhorn · 10-11-2011, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by storm9c1

Well technically there are aftermarket starters that have a straight pattern mount but the starter motor itself can be "clocked" to work with either flexplate/flywheel type. But you are right, that doesn't help when the common bolt hole is busted.

I knew a guy who had the same problem. He took a 1/4" piece of steel plate, drilled three holes in it, two for the good bosses in the block and one at the location of the broken boss. Then he ground a notch in the block about the size of a nut. Then he literally ground 1/4" off the starter! Bolted the starter on with the plate and grade 8 bolts, put the nut on the back side where he made the notch.......and it worked until he got rid of the vehicle a few months later. It was a no-weld job. And you can grind that notch out for the nut with a rotary tool, so no need to pull the engine. I'm sure replacing the starter again later would be a pain, you'd have to grind the new starter down 1/4".

That sounds a little "hills".....but what the he!!, I would try it once

crazyL

thebatii · 10-05-2011, 10:46 PM

what good is a truck if you cant start it?
Guess I better start looking for a magic welder.....

thanks for all your kind helpful words
This is a great site ...have a blessed one

edhtrd71 · 10-05-2011, 11:21 PM

really sorry for what happened. If that was mine I would try anything before giving up. The allthread probably isnt a good idea because it will allow the starter to twist adding pressure to the weak hole. Hopefully you have good fabrication skills or a good welding fabricator buddy. I dont know how many threads you have in there, but I would use the original shouldered bolt and support it at the head of the bolt. If you can use the transmission converter cover bolt near the starter, make a plate (bracket) that bolts to the trans and the weak starter bolt. Make sure its a tight fit and doesnt allow the bolt to move. May need a longer starter bolt. I dont know may sound stupid but thats my first idea. Good luck

thebatii · 10-06-2011, 12:33 AM

I think im going to make a starter shim with just two holes for the bolts to go through that way the good bolt will keep the weak bolt from flexing back and perhaps make some sort bracket off the bellhousing to keep it all from moving. and just jb weld the living snot out of it , what have I got to loose if it doesn't work I go motor hunting .......that 454 was just a little to big for that truck anyway........ yea right keep telling yourself that.

**Captainfab** · 10-06-2011, 01:13 AM

As already said, if you had the piece, it would be easier to fix. I welded that same area on a '65 vette a couple years ago, but the piece was still there. It was a PITA but it was the easier option versus pulling the engine. In your case, is there at least some threads farther up in that hole? If not try drilling all the way up thru that part of the casting, and running a tap up from the bottom thru the top to gain more threads.

However, if you have leaking freeze plugs, it may be time to pull the engine to fix those as well as the broken starter boss.

thebatii · 10-06-2011, 08:22 PM

Thanks again all
have a blessed one

bama63 · 10-08-2011, 02:29 PM

try this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-ST...item51977ad111 grade 8 and the correct size/length and possibly weld the stud or epoxy to block

id_unavailable · 10-08-2011, 02:55 PM

I would try to weld the allthread to the block then use a nut instead of a bolt. It looks tight but you may be able to do it on the truck.

Redcap · 10-08-2011, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by id_unavailable

I would try to weld the allthread to the block then use a nut instead of a bolt. It looks tight but you may be able to do it on the truck.

Weld steel all-thread to cast iron?

crazy longhorn · 10-08-2011, 06:11 PM

Yup, a little preheat ,& a nickle rod

crazyL

**Captainfab** · 10-08-2011, 11:13 PM

I've welded mild steel to cast iron many times.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redcap

Weld steel all-thread to cast iron?

10-05-2011, 01:36 AM	#1
thebatii Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: lincoln ca Posts: 27	new to the site... am i screwed or not Heres what happened, the tranny side freeze plug was leaking over the top of my starter on my 1965 c10 causing issues. When looking it over i put a tee shirt over the starter so it would stop leaking in my face, when i got out from under the truck I re conected the battery and went to start it and forgot all about the tee shirt......hey you guessed it the starter sucked the tee up between the bellhousing and the starter snapping off the block covering the starter bolt. see photos . It chipped the block up so high that the bolt not longer nas enough thread to thread up. So I took a temp/#8 all thread and put it in the block but how do I cover the open side? Jb weld? It gets worse The piece that broke off is now missing and I can't find it. is it time to look for a new block? can you weld castiron? Attached Images

10-05-2011, 09:07 AM	#2
onequickchevy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Marianna, Florida Posts: 339	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Yeah you are, but i'd try to run it. Put some locktite in that puppy after cleaning it up and give it a shot. I would hunt a block, but I think it will work for a while anyway. Posted via Mobile Device __________________ Slowly but surely getting it done.

10-05-2011, 09:17 AM	#3
erock805 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: gilbert, az Posts: 392	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Agreed...either way its going to be some work. Loctite and look for an engine. Yes you can weld cast iron, Lottsa of people will say no, I have seen it done before with good results, The key is welding very hot. Then you will have to rethread that hole. Is the motor worth all of that? Path of least resistance might but putting in a used motor. Much quicker and easier. Also what you do depends how much the truck gets used...Is this an every day driver? Perhaps this is a good time for upgrades. __________________ "Do what you want to the girl, but leave me alone!"

10-05-2011, 09:34 AM	#4
TheDark1 Intentionally Left Blank Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Broussard, LA Posts: 355	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not What type of tranny is that? If it's a manual, switch to a stock (Mid 1960's) bellhousing and use the stock style starter. They bolt to the bellhousing, not the block.--jeff __________________ 1965 C-10 Short Fleet 468/TKO 5-Speed 2004 2500HD Crew 496/Ally Blacked Out (SOLD!!) 1997 Formula WS6 2004 Jeep Wrangler (Sold) 2013 Jeep Wrangler (Sold) 2017 Jeep Wrangler (Blacked Out on 35's) 2011 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2015 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2018 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2020 D-Max Dually Denali on 33x12.50's 1979 GMC Short Bed Step-Side 4x4 350/350 Low Miles

10-05-2011, 09:40 AM	#5
MikeN Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 803	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Looks like an automatic transmission and flexplate...

10-05-2011, 09:45 AM	#7
TheDark1 Intentionally Left Blank Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Broussard, LA Posts: 355	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Ah yes, I see the flex plate now. __________________ 1965 C-10 Short Fleet 468/TKO 5-Speed 2004 2500HD Crew 496/Ally Blacked Out (SOLD!!) 1997 Formula WS6 2004 Jeep Wrangler (Sold) 2013 Jeep Wrangler (Sold) 2017 Jeep Wrangler (Blacked Out on 35's) 2011 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2015 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2018 GMC D-Max Dually Denali 3500HD (Sold) 2020 D-Max Dually Denali on 33x12.50's 1979 GMC Short Bed Step-Side 4x4 350/350 Low Miles

10-05-2011, 12:05 PM	#8
64fleetside Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: arkieland Posts: 1,070	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Have it welded.

10-05-2011, 02:04 PM	#9
Marv D Registered Truck Offender Join Date: May 2008 Location: hells training ground (aka Ariz) Posts: 3,118	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not The piece missing is going to be the butt-kicker. If you had it, you 'can' weld cast, but it's not cheap. Todays epoxies can be just darn near as strong. If youhad the piece, I'd epoxy it together, with w stud, and be cautious when you tighten a nut on that side. In the end,, a new block is in your future I'm afraid. __________________ Still playin with trucks, even at my age! When you're dead, it's only a problem for the people around you, because you don't know you're dead. .....It's kinda the same when your STUPID. I just did my taxes and reviewed my SS statement. Thanks to the current administration it looks like I will only have to work till noon on the day of my funeral.

10-05-2011, 07:03 PM	#10
pope Registered User Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Belgrade, Mt Posts: 130	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Ewww! Either way if you want to weld it you will most likely have to pull the block, and the shop will want the piece to do it. Have seen that done before and repairs like that do work fine. Good Luck! __________________ Where the hell did my coffee cup go?!!

10-05-2011, 09:37 PM	#11
thebatii Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: lincoln ca Posts: 27	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Ive looked all over for the chunk that fell off and cant find it anywhere the trans is a turbo 400 I was thinking layers of jb weld I bought a new straight line bolt starter instead of the offset one that was on it ...so the starter lines up nice i just need to close that gap....cliff lol

10-05-2011, 10:46 PM	#16
thebatii Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: lincoln ca Posts: 27	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not what good is a truck if you cant start it? Guess I better start looking for a magic welder..... thanks for all your kind helpful words This is a great site ...have a blessed one Attached Images

10-05-2011, 11:21 PM	#17
edhtrd71 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Edinburg, Texas. Posts: 194	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not really sorry for what happened. If that was mine I would try anything before giving up. The allthread probably isnt a good idea because it will allow the starter to twist adding pressure to the weak hole. Hopefully you have good fabrication skills or a good welding fabricator buddy. I dont know how many threads you have in there, but I would use the original shouldered bolt and support it at the head of the bolt. If you can use the transmission converter cover bolt near the starter, make a plate (bracket) that bolts to the trans and the weak starter bolt. Make sure its a tight fit and doesnt allow the bolt to move. May need a longer starter bolt. I dont know may sound stupid but thats my first idea. Good luck

10-06-2011, 12:33 AM	#18
thebatii Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: lincoln ca Posts: 27	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not I think im going to make a starter shim with just two holes for the bolts to go through that way the good bolt will keep the weak bolt from flexing back and perhaps make some sort bracket off the bellhousing to keep it all from moving. and just jb weld the living snot out of it , what have I got to loose if it doesn't work I go motor hunting .......that 454 was just a little to big for that truck anyway........ yea right keep telling yourself that. Attached Images

10-06-2011, 01:13 AM	#19
Captainfab 60-66 Nut Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Coeur d'Alene, Idaho Posts: 23,250	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not As already said, if you had the piece, it would be easier to fix. I welded that same area on a '65 vette a couple years ago, but the piece was still there. It was a PITA but it was the easier option versus pulling the engine. In your case, is there at least some threads farther up in that hole? If not try drilling all the way up thru that part of the casting, and running a tap up from the bottom thru the top to gain more threads. However, if you have leaking freeze plugs, it may be time to pull the engine to fix those as well as the broken starter boss. __________________ Power Steering Box Adapter Plates For Sale HERE Power Brake Booster Adapter Brackets For Sale '63-'66 HERE and '67-'72 HERE and '60-'62 HERE and "60-'62 with clutch HERE Rear Disc Brake Brackets For Sale. Impala SS calipers HERE Camaro Calipers HERE D52 Calipers HERE 6 Lug HERE Hydroboost Mounting Plates HERE

10-06-2011, 08:22 PM	#20
thebatii Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: lincoln ca Posts: 27	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Thanks again all have a blessed one



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10-08-2011, 02:29 PM	#21
bama63 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: gadsden, alabama Posts: 468	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not try this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-ST...item51977ad111 grade 8 and the correct size/length and possibly weld the stud or epoxy to block __________________ Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel will be shut off until further notice

10-08-2011, 02:55 PM	#22
id_unavailable Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: macon, ga Posts: 102	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not I would try to weld the allthread to the block then use a nut instead of a bolt. It looks tight but you may be able to do it on the truck.

10-08-2011, 06:11 PM	#24
crazy longhorn Fabricate till you "puke" Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ill Posts: 9,402	Re: new to the site... am i screwed or not Yup, a little preheat ,& a nickle rod crazyL __________________ 69 longhorn,4" chop,3/5 drop, 1/2 ton suspension/disc brakes,1 1/2" body drop,steel tilt clip, 5.3/Edelbrock rpm intake/600 carb, Hooker streetrod shorties,2 1/2" exhaust/ H pipe/50's Flows , 6 spd Richmond trans,12 bolt/ 3.40 gears....

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