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#1 |
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Need some engine advice and suggestions...
I finally got my chassis and suspension squared away, now I need some suggestions/advice from all you motor gurus,
![]() ![]() Here's a link to the chassis/interior updates: http://www.67-72chevytrucks.com/vboa...d.php?t=358692 First, let me say that I didn't build the motor or transmission. Here's a list of what I have done myself or have been able to determine that had been done by the previous owner. The motor was built by T&L Engine Development out of North Carolina (http://www.tandlengines.com/) and appears to be very well built. I have a lot of paperwork so I'll answer any questions the best I can. What I'm looking for are suggestions or recommendations about what has already been done or what should be done in the future to make this setup as efficient as it can be. Here's a list of what I know: Vortech V2 Supercharger (8" crank pulley) 50 mm Blow-off valve: http://www.vsracing.net/catalog/prod...43aaf05a7d8c53 383 stroker motor (1 piece rear main seal) All forged internals 9:1 Compression Carrillo forged crank and rods - http://www.carrilloind.com/LinkClick...vg%3d&tabid=60 SRP pistons - http://www.jepistons.com/Catalogs/SR...0-400_inv.aspx Dart Pro 1 Platinum 200 aluminum heads with roller rockers, chamber port volume 69, intake port volume 200, 2.02 intake, 1.6 exhaust, 3425 springs, PBM seals, CompCam pushrods in/exh 7809-16 http://www.dartheads.com/products/cy...num-heads.html PRW Stainless steel roller tip rockers (1.5 3/8) - http://www.performanceracingwarehous...cker-arms.html Competition cam - XR276HR-12 ----Operating Range:1800-5800 ----Duration Advertised:276° Intake/281° Exhaust ----Duration @ .050'':224° Intake/230° Exhaust ----Valve Lift:.503° Intake/.510° Exhaust ----Lobe Separation Angle:112° MSD 6BTM ignition box with adjustable boost retard and 6K rev limiter MSD billit mechanical distributor (blue/silver springs 36 degrees) 8MM wires Edelbrock Performer RPM HPC coated intake QFT 750 Ban Blow through carb Aeromotive boost adjusted FPR, http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/products.php?prod=20) Aeromotive A1000 fuel pump, http://www.aeromotiveinc.com/products.php?prod=165) 10 AN lines from tank to FPR, 8AN return, 8AN carb Custom aluminum tank with sump and return SS headers (1 3/4" primaries) 50 Series flowmasters, 2 1/2 exhaust Factory recommends Autolite AR3933, it seems to run better with NGK 45 spark plugs (.0045 gap, is this a good plug and is the gap good?) 180 Thermostat (to high or to low?) PVC valve installed Sid Neal TH350 SFI flexplate 2800 stall torque converter (to high/to low?) 31' rear tires, 4.11 Yukon gears with Eaton posi and moser axles They dyno sheet I got shows 631.1 TQ @ 4900 rpm and 622.7 HP @ 5400 rpm. The run was only to 5500 rpm. Supposedly it's built to go to 7500 RPM..... This is my first really high performance engine (and supercharger) and I want to make sure I don't break anything because something is incorrectly setup or something is missing. I'm open to any suggestions, recommendations, and/or changes to make this a strong running combination. Fire away at what you think is good, bad and ugly... ![]()
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 04-16-2011 at 10:02 PM. |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 469
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
I couldn't tell if you had an intercooler or not, but maybe you could look into spraying meth. I knew a guy with a whipple that would change the pulley at the track and spray the methanol to allow for the extra boost.
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1982 Silverado - SBE, cleaned up GM heads, small cam, TH350, 850 Demon, 4.56 gears, and caltracs. Best time so far 11.8@XXXMPH Last edited by team39763; 11-09-2009 at 12:48 AM. |
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#3 |
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
The V2 is designed to not have an intercooler. Don't you have to have an all stainless fuel system to run methanol as well as a particular carb?
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 11-20-2009 at 11:40 PM. |
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#4 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 469
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Quote:
http://www.snowperformance.net/products.php?p_cat=319
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1982 Silverado - SBE, cleaned up GM heads, small cam, TH350, 850 Demon, 4.56 gears, and caltracs. Best time so far 11.8@XXXMPH |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Wetumpka, Al, U.S.
Posts: 8,891
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Its a sweet ride Rob I wish I new more about that type of combo. I can't help much.
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Kevin Special Thanks to All who have helped on the TRUCK! My Pass Time Show http://s129.photobucket.com/albums/p...Chapter1-0.mp4 So Far my best Times are: Motor only: 6.44 1/8 @ 104.13 10.39 1/4 @ 125.83 Nitrous Times: 5.785 1/8 @ 118.65 with a 1.336 60ft 9.168 1/4 @ 142.58 with a 250 shot dead out of the hole! |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Imperial Beach, CA
Posts: 1,040
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
If T&L built it with the forced air in mind then you dont need to do anything. I have heard nothing but good about them. If you have a question call them.
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69 c-10 BBC ![]() 462ci, forged crank, H-beam rods, 10.5-1 KB forged pistons, Dart Iron Eagle 308cc, Straub Cam, Comp Cams chrome moly full rollers, Weiand Team G, Prosystems 950, TH400/3500 Dalenzie stall, Currie 9+ Detroit Locker w/31spline axles. ![]() |
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#7 |
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
I've tried calling them but all I get is a voice mail. I'm sure the motor is put together correctly, I guess I'm wondering about some of the stuff the PO did when they put the motor in the truck like spark plugs and gaps, no bypass valve, no thermostat, no boost regulated FPR, no PCV valve, stall, fuel pump size, gears, tire size.......I guess I'm just trying to figure out if there's anything that doesn't belong with this setup or anything that can make this setup more efficient.
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 11-09-2009 at 11:10 PM. |
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#8 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Forney TX
Posts: 4,512
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
any videos of it running??
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Troy 1965 Chevy Bagged,361 sbc,voodoo cam,1.5 full roller rockers,patriot 185cc vortec heads 2.02-1.60,vortec weiand polished intake,demon carb my truckhttp://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=332884 Big Red Dog build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=572274 |
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#9 |
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
__________________
Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Huntingdon,TN
Posts: 95
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
In regards to the fuel pump, I dont think you need a boost referenced fuel pump or regulator for that particular setup. Seems like I remember reading that somewhere, due to the fact that the whole carb is enclosed and under the same pressure(boost), so the fuel pump doesnt have to overcome the extra pressure differential. Setups with the blow-thru "hat" do need to be boost referenced.But DO NOT take my word for it. Call Vortech to verify. Just something to check out before you possibly waste and money. Hope this helps and im not way off base here.
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Huntingdon,TN
Posts: 95
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Sweet truck BTW!!! What size tires you got on the back?
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#12 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 910
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
You don't need a PCV since this is a supercharger. You may need a vacuum system to keep pressure down in your crank case. Otherwise you could experience blow-by.
BOV, as stated in the FAQ section of the vortec website. "When should a standard air bypass valve be used? A standard air bypass valve should be used on all supercharged applications where the supercharger is making more than 6PSIG. The advantages of using an air bypass valve includes eliminating compressor surge (the noise heard during deceleration) for quieter supercharger operation, and reduced heat soak in the discharge tube and the supercharger." I would either move the air filter or block the header heat and run an air duct to it. Hot air isn't good for a SC setup, it only gets hotter. I see the fan mounted in front of you radiator. Is that a pusher or puller fan? Fuel Pump, as stated from the vortech website: "On early engines, a high-performance, boost referenced mechanical fuel pump will provide the necessary fuel in most applications. Late model motors may require an electrical fuel pump and a boost referenced fuel pressure regulator providing 6 lbs. of pressure." Again contact vortec. As far as gearing what is your tire size? I would run it first and see what rpm you are turning through the traps. That will tell you if you need a different gear. Don't just go adding things just because others have it. Check with the manufacture first, not that they always know best, but it's a good place to start. I don't want to discourage you or others from asking questions, but take a few minutes and do some research before asking questions when the answers are already available. The forums are great for information, but sometimes you may get the wrong information from someone that doesn't know what they are talking about and you could end up with something broken as a result of someone’s bad advice. The truck and the combo look awesome. I am sure you will enjoy it for a little while, at least until that guy on your shoulder tells you to throw on the smaller pulley. Good Luck
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83 C10 Stepside (SOLD, it was a blast!) 383 MASS-FLO EFI/TKO II 600/3.90 Posi 10 bolt S475 and C4 DM running, fine tuning turbo= ![]() Douchebag Racing: Runs Fine all the Time |
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#13 | ||
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Working on it,
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__________________
Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 11-18-2009 at 11:46 AM. |
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#14 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Frostburg, Maryland
Posts: 38
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Rob,
You will need a boost referenced pump. You need to have fuel pressure rise [from your base fp setting] 1 lb for each lb of boost. The box and a carb hat function the same way. They both pressurize the carb. The hat also pressurized the bowls through the vent tubes. The box just makes fuel leakage from the throttle shafts a non-issue. I do not believe that the black pump is capable of supplying enough fuel. If you run, say 8 psi boost, and a 7 psi, you'll need a pump that'll give you enough fuel flow at 15 psi fuel pressure. The pump will probably go 15 psi, but it will not flow well at that pressure. Most experts will say that a high pressure pump setup with a return style regulator is the best setup. Nice truck, btw. Dave
__________________
'71 C-10 medium bed. Pump gas 454" +.030", stock valved 049s, dana 60 w/410s. 12.25 at 108. |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 910
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
If you are getting blow bye you need a vacuum pump to pull pressure from the crank case. There are a few ways to go about this. You can spend $500+ on a belt driven vacuum pump/system or you can try an electric vacuum pump similar to what the mustang cobras run or you can see if a simple PCV system will work (closed valve cover breathers with a hose connected to a oil seperator then connect that to a port on the intake hose before the SC).
I imagine vortec should have included a BOV (blow-off-valve) but it doesn't appear they do. I would recommend a 50mm X02 BOV, they are cheap and they work. This should keep you SC happy and your carb. When the throttle blades close the SC is still spinning and building boost, but the boost has no where to go so it will try and exit from somewhere by pushing passed your throttle blades or other parts of your carb, it will also build up back pressure on the SC. As far as a boost reference fuel pump or regulator it doesn't matter if it's a mustang or a chevy pickup. For every pound of boost you need more fuel. I would imagine you need a boost referenced pump or reg. Call vortec back and tell them you have a 351 cleveland in a 89 mustang with this SC setup and you want to know what fuel pump they recommend. Then just buy one that has similiar specs. Do you have an AFR guage? I highly recommend one. Yes I would install some type of "cold air" setup. If the engine runs cool and no over heating issues then I wouldn't change anything. Adding the thermostat was a good move, 180 is probably the best temp. 29" tall tire is a decent size tire and you may need 4.11, but I would drive the truck and run it at the track first before making any gear changes.
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83 C10 Stepside (SOLD, it was a blast!) 383 MASS-FLO EFI/TKO II 600/3.90 Posi 10 bolt S475 and C4 DM running, fine tuning turbo= ![]() Douchebag Racing: Runs Fine all the Time Last edited by Wild83C10; 11-18-2009 at 01:43 PM. |
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#16 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Frostburg, Maryland
Posts: 38
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
From the Vortec site:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/product.php?p=138 Read the "please note" section.
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'71 C-10 medium bed. Pump gas 454" +.030", stock valved 049s, dana 60 w/410s. 12.25 at 108. |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Frostburg, Maryland
Posts: 38
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
You "could" run a this pump, or a similar mechanical dead-headed [non return style system]. They offer a boost reference fitting option. Imo, this would be marginal, as you would be at the edge of the pump's pressure capacity at 7 psi fp and 7 psi boost.
http://www.robbmcperformance.com/pro...chevy1100.html Fwiw, I would buy more pump that you need, and do a return style system. A few seconds of detonation from running lean will destroy a supercharged engine quicker than it will a mild N/A'd deal. Dave
__________________
'71 C-10 medium bed. Pump gas 454" +.030", stock valved 049s, dana 60 w/410s. 12.25 at 108. |
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#18 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Frostburg, Maryland
Posts: 38
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Here is a good site for blow-through info, both turbocharged and centrifigul super-charged.
Beware: Study and search, and study more before asking questions. I would start with the newbie forum. http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php Dave
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'71 C-10 medium bed. Pump gas 454" +.030", stock valved 049s, dana 60 w/410s. 12.25 at 108. Last edited by dave brode; 11-18-2009 at 01:52 PM. |
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#19 | |||||
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Quote:
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__________________
Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 Last edited by Hart_Rod; 11-18-2009 at 04:07 PM. |
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#20 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 910
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Aeromotive makes some good stuff.
The x02 BOV can be purchased from VSracing.net AFR: look at the Innovate LC1 w/digital gauge or the AEM model If you want to learn more theturboforums is a good rescource also checkout yellowbullet.com/forum
__________________
83 C10 Stepside (SOLD, it was a blast!) 383 MASS-FLO EFI/TKO II 600/3.90 Posi 10 bolt S475 and C4 DM running, fine tuning turbo= ![]() Douchebag Racing: Runs Fine all the Time |
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#21 |
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Huntingdon,TN
Posts: 95
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
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#22 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,156
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
You won't be able to hook up the blow off valve on the set up you have now. Normaly they're located on the pipe towards the carb. You would have to change the rubber elbow for a steel or aluminum one.
I don't think you want to cut a hole in the box! Did you get a wideband 02 yet? |
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#23 |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,156
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Sorry I forgot to mention.
Get a good fuel pump like an Aeromotive a1000 I think it is - Its good quality and will give you all the fuel this combo needs - you will need an adustible fuel pressure regulator and a return to the tank. Also a like others have mentioned, a cold air set up would help too. Also you need colder plugs with a blower - I'm not sure if thats what you're using or not Is that flywheel HP or RWHP your making? I wasn't sure. |
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#24 |
*************
![]() Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 17,846
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Here's the pump and fuel regulator I think I'm going to buy:
Aero 1000 Fuel Pump Part Number # 027-11101 Areo FPR Part Number # 027-13204 http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...rderItemDelete Thoughts? r/
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Rob - https://www.instagram.com/hart_rod_c10 As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17 FOR SALE: DBW pedal bracket - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=651123 FOR SALE: Hood Brackets http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=679945 1987 Silverado SWB - 34.5K original miles http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=801834 1969 SuperBurb - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=200387 1968 Farm truck - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=358692 1968 SWB - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=551258 1948 Chevy - http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=122164&page=3 |
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#25 | |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2002
Location: NJ
Posts: 910
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Re: Need some engine advice and suggestions...
Quote:
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83 C10 Stepside (SOLD, it was a blast!) 383 MASS-FLO EFI/TKO II 600/3.90 Posi 10 bolt S475 and C4 DM running, fine tuning turbo= ![]() Douchebag Racing: Runs Fine all the Time Last edited by Wild83C10; 11-20-2009 at 07:59 AM. |
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