Which GM crate engine would you buy?

[67ChevyRedneck]

So the engine in my truck is heading south. I think the rings are getting bad along with some other things. Still very drivable, but I have a crapload of OT saved up at work (probably over 120 hours worth by next year) and I'm going to cash it out for a new GM crate engine.

I'm confused about which to get. There seems to be two Gen 1 "generic" engines available.

There's this one

These are excellent entry-level performance engines for older cars, trucks, and street rods. All of the parts in these engines are brand new. These GM Performance Part Goodwrench 5.7L/350 c.i.d. have approximately 8.5:1 compression with 250 hp at 4,300 rpm and 350 ft./lbs. of torque at 3,600 rpm. These crate engines have 4.00 in. bore and 3.47 in. stroke, with 4-bolt mains and two-piece rear main seals. Camshaft specifications are .383 in. intake lift and .401 in. exhaust lift. Open duration is 194 degree intake and 202 degree exhaust at .050 in. with a 112-degree lope separation. Cylinder heads are cast iron with 1.94 in. intake valves and 1.50 in. exhaust valves, with 76cc combustion chambers, and 7-bolt style exhaust flanges. These engines include painted valve covers, oil pan, and timing covers. They are drilled for both left hand and right hand dipsticks.

and this one:

These GM Performance Parts 350 c.i.d. 290 hp engine assemblies are the most popular GM Performance Parts crate engines because no one else can deliver as much performance for this kind of value. GM Performance parts believes that everyone should be able to afford a high quality GM V8 without going broke. These engines are the answer to those car crafters who demand maximum return on their money. But, just because they're affordable, don't think that they're stones. These 350/290 engines deliver approximately 290 hp at 5,100 rpm, and a solid 326 ft.-lbs. of torque at 3,750 rpm. With those kinds of numbers, they're the perfect replacement engines for the millions of GM vehicles that shipped with a small block. Got a tired, old Chevy that needs a lift? Then these crate engines are just right for you. GM Performance parts 350 c.i.d. 290 hp engine assemblies start with a 4-bolt main bearing block, aluminum pistons, and a hydraulic camshaft. Then they're topped with cast-iron cylinder heads that are designed to be extremely durable, while still providing good airflow through the engine.

The first one is around $1,700 and the second is around $2,000 (summit prices) I know I can get them cheaper from a local dealer (or even fleabay), that's not my concern. Which engine is better to get and who has one?

It seems to me that the first motor is cheaper and although it makes less HP, it makes its HP at a lower RPM (I've never had my truck revved past 4.5K before), and it has more torque?

My truck is not nor will be any kind of a racetruck. I just hope the extra power won't hurt my 700R4

Thoughts, Opinions?

Here's a link:

http://store.summitracing.com/egnsea...nresults=false

[jkaylor68gmc]

Build a motor, don't buy a crate motor!

[jkade]

Get you a LQ4 or a LQ9 or a 4.8 or a 5.3 and put in it.

[BB72CHEVKT]

I am leaning toward the 290hp because 50hp for $300 seems
cheap to me. I do not know of any other mods you can do and get 50hp for $300. Just my 2 cents.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by BB72CHEVKT

I am leaning toward the 290hp because 50hp for $300 seems
cheap to me. I do not know of any other mods you can do and get 50hp for $300. Just my 2 cents.

I wonder what HP it makes at 4300 rpm? It also has less tq than the first motor, so it should be a little slower off the line but faster in higher rpm range???

[67_C-30]

The only difference the camshaft. The engines are identical otherwise.
The 290HP has .450" intake and .460" exhaust lift hydraulic flat tappet which is actually the same cam GM used in 73-81 L82 Corvette engines in the 70's, and the 250HP has a .383 in. intake lift and .401 in. exhaust lift hydraulic flat tappet which pretty much the same camshaft used in stock 327's/350's/400SB's from the late 60's to late 70's. The 250HP is going to be much smoother idling and will be a more economical engine. The camshaft in the 290 has a slighty lopey idle, and won't produce the same low end TQ. I've used the L82 cam before and it does make pretty good power. You won't need an aftermarket stall convertor with it. If you are using your truck as a daily driver, I'd go with 250HP.

[67_C-30]

BTW, the 290HP is making around 250HP at 4300 RPM. Here is the dyno chart.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 67_C-30

BTW, the 290HP is making around 250HP at 4300 RPM. Here is the dyno chart.

Cool chart.

Yeah, fuel mileage is a definite concern! I put 50-100 miles per week on the truck. (poor girl sat for almost 2 years, but was started and driven around the yard frequently.)

I currently get about 13 city 15-16 highway, I'd love to keep those numbers.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 67_C-30

The only difference the camshaft. The engines are identical otherwise.
The 290HP has .450" intake and .460" exhaust lift hydraulic flat tappet which is actually the same cam GM used in 73-81 L82 Corvette engines in the 70's, and the 250HP has a .383 in. intake lift and .401 in. exhaust lift hydraulic flat tappet which pretty much the same camshaft used in stock 327's/350's/400SB's from the late 60's to late 70's. The 250HP is going to be much smoother idling and will be a more economical engine. The camshaft in the 290 has a slighty lopey idle, and won't produce the same low end TQ. I've used the L82 cam before and it does make pretty good power. You won't need an aftermarket stall convertor with it. If you are using your truck as a daily driver, I'd go with 250HP.

WOW! Thanks for all the great info! I'm leaning towards the 250hp one for daily use.

I definitely don't want to add a new TC to the list too!

Will both engines run well on 87?

[68c-10]

I would buy the 250 hp motor. My dad and I instaled one in his 56 chevy it ran sweet, great oil pressure and good reliablity. It had plenty of power to turn the tires but it got decent mileage also.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Fellas, thanks for the comments, but I have no desire to screw with any kind of wiring/efi/etc. Cost is also a BIG factor.

I already have a tired 350 in my truck and that's what I want to replace it with. Unbolt old engine, swap brackets, etc. replace.

If I had money to burn, I'd get a turn key motor, but 2K is about my limit.

I have no idea how to build a motor, and from what I understand it's just as expensive. My block is aready bored .40 over.

Thanks, keep the comments comming. I know a lot of y'all have used one or the other...

[jkade]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Fellas, thanks for the comments, but I have no desire to screw with any kind of wiring/efi/etc. Cost is also a BIG factor.

I already have a tired 350 in my truck and that's what I want to replace it with. Unbolt old engine, swap brackets, etc. replace.

If I had money to burn, I'd get a turn key motor, but 2K is about my limit.

I have no idea how to build a motor, and from what I understand it's just as expensive. My block is aready bored .40 over.

Thanks, keep the comments comming. I know a lot of y'all have used one or the other...

I was just saying, but FYI you could do a 4.8 or a 5.3 for what you are wanting to spend. The only thing about old style motors is they will not last as long as the new generation motors. The new GENIII motors are built much better and do not wear like the old ones and make more hp per cubic inch. There are nothing wrong with 350's but I tore a gm crate motor apart that on had about 60K miles and the ring groove was so bad that it had to be bored before I could put it back together and it gets like 6mpg. To each his own and good luck with the motor. One last thing, you can get a good recon motor from advance auto with a 3 yr unlimited mileage warranty cheaper than the gm crate and they are good motors.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by jkade

I was just saying, but FYI you could do a 4.8 or a 5.3 for what you are wanting to spend. The only thing about old style motors is they will not last as long as the new generation motors. The new GENIII motors are built much better and do not wear like the old ones and make more hp per cubic inch. There are nothing wrong with 350's but I tore a gm crate motor apart that on had about 60K miles and the ring groove was so bad that it had to be bored before I could put it back together and it gets like 6mpg. To each his own and good luck with the motor. One last thing, you can get a good recon motor from advance auto with a 3 yr unlimited mileage warranty cheaper than the gm crate and they are good motors.

The adavance auto motor is the piece of **** that's in my truck now. It's barely 4 years old and has less than 8K on it. NEVER again.

No Gen III motor for me either. My Z71 has CSK (along with about 5 million other trucks and vehicles). The only way for it to come in under 2K is a used motor, but isn't the computer crap to make it work crazy expensive? There's also all the stuff outside the motor I'll need to make the swap work, exhaust, probably cats?, electric fans, gas pedal, how will my A/C work, etc??? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Z71, but the CSK is embarassing and I have to clean my throttle body at least every 15K or else the throttle cable sticks, and I also run seafoam through it about twice a year.) Not something I want for the '67.

I can't see a 350 only getting 6 mpg unless it was totally set up wrong and abused.

[67_C-30]

I agree about the 6 mpg, something's up or it has very low gears.

70c10 is correct also, I don't want you to think that the 290HP has a very big cam. Its not a radical cam by any means, and you absolutely WON'T have to have a stall convertor with it. If the truck was something you drive on weekends or every now and then I'd go with it, but with gas $2.50 - $3.00/gal, the 290HP is going to cost you a little more to operate since it has a higher lift/longer duration cam.

[67_C-30]

BTW, $1700 is too high. That engine can be bought from $1400 - $1500 lots of places. One of my buddies bought one from our local Chevy dealer for around $1600. You are going to have freight charges with Summit.

Scoggin Dickey has the same engine that Summit has for less than $1400 plus shipping.

http://www.sdparts.com/product/10067...ateEngine.aspx

[jkade]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

The adavance auto motor is the piece of ****ing **** that's in my truck now. It's barely 4 years old and has less than 8K on it. NEVER again.

No Gen III motor for me either. My Z71 has CSK (along with about 5 million other trucks and vehicles). The only way for it to come in under 2K is a used motor, but isn't the computer crap to make it work crazy expensive? There's also all the stuff outside the motor I'll need to make the swap work, exhaust, probably cats?, electric fans, gas pedal, how will my A/C work, etc??? (Don't get me wrong, I LOVE my Z71, but the CSK is embarassing and I have to clean my throttle body at least every 15K or else the throttle cable sticks, and I also run seafoam through it about twice a year.) Not something I want for the '67.

I can't see a 350 only getting 6 mpg unless it was totally set up wrong and abused.

Used motor, computer crap is easy you can do the harness yourself in a few hours and get a new ready to go computer for $157 shipped to you. Exhaust would be cheap if you already have duals under your truck. You don't need no stinking cats, you don't need electric fans, you can use your stock gas pedal, stock gas tank, stock motor mounts, stock trans mount, stock shifter, etc. You can use the compressor for this style motor and get a few lines made which would be fairly cheap. I have had several of the advance motors and they all are still running strong. The 350 that gets 6mpg, has vortec heads, comp 292 cam, headers, edelbrock 1406, in a 4x4 with 3:08's and 35's. I drive the hell out of it and I will dump the clutch in it and smoke both back tires off but it will be replaced with a GENIII motor in the near future. So needless to say it is abused but it would get 13mpg plus if it had a LS type motor and have a lot more power. I have had several of the Chevy trucks and never had a problem with the throttle body on them. Good luck with the crate motor from gm but it is no better than that from advance been there and done that.

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by jkade

I drive the hell out of it and I will dump the clutch in it and smoke both back tires off but it will be replaced with a GENIII motor in the near future. So needless to say it is abused but it would get 13mpg plus if it had a LS type motor and have a lot more power. .

I'm sorry man, but you're going to very disappointed if you believe that. You aren't going to get 13mpg if the LS motor is abused the same way you are treating the 350. I have 33's on my 2000 Z71, and I get 14 mpg on a good day (in town) and that's driving it normal. Another thing is that a stock Gen III engine, unless its a Vette engine, is not going to have more power than a Vortec headed 350 with a 292 Comp cam, unless the 350 is sick. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the Gen III engine, and I agree that it is a better designed, more efficient engine than a 350. I'm just saying that if the Gen III is driven as hard as you say your 350 is, its not going to be much better on economy.

[70c10]

67 C-30 is right about the different cams being the difference but I would go with the 290 hp myself. That bigger cam is still fairly mild in my opinion.

[Ole Blue 68]

Another good bang for the buck to consider would be to go with vortec heads. Not sure if you could fit that into your budget though.

[68Stepbed]

Redneck, I had the 250hp engine in my 68. It's what's still in there, just with a different cam now. I loved mine. It ran great, had plenty of power, and I could get around 14-17 mpg if I could keep my foot out of it. I don't know what kind of carb you're running now, but I tried two 600 Edelburps before I bought the 570 Holley Street Avenger I have on it now. The 570 Holley is perfect on this engine. Good throttle response, easy to tune, good mileage, and just simply a well built carb. This was with a TH350 tranny with 3.08 gears. MPG's dropped after I put 3.73's in. Your 700R4 should help out your mpg alot.

If you buy the engine from Summit, you'll only get a 12 month/12,000 mile LIMITED warranty. If you buy from a GM dealer, they will probably honor the 3yr/100,000 mile FULL warranty. Make sure you ask them first.

Hope this helps.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 68Stepbed

Redneck, I had the 250hp engine in my 68. It's what's still in there, just with a different cam now. I loved mine. It ran great, had plenty of power, and I could get around 14-17 mpg if I could keep my foot out of it. I don't know what kind of carb you're running now, but I tried two 600 Edelburps before I bought the 570 Holley Street Avenger I have on it now. The 570 Holley is perfect on this engine. Good throttle response, easy to tune, good mileage, and just simply a well built carb. This was with a TH350 tranny with 3.08 gears. MPG's dropped after I put 3.73's in. Your 700R4 should help out your mpg alot.

If you buy the engine from Summit, you'll only get a 12 month/12,000 mile LIMITED warranty. If you buy from a GM dealer, they will probably honor the 3yr/100,000 mile FULL warranty. Make sure you ask them first.

Hope this helps.

I have an edelbrock 1406 on mine now. Seems to run well, but I'll keep that in mind. What did you use for an intake?

According to GM, the engine has a 3 yr 36K warranty if installed in a 69 to 85? vehicle, but only 1 yr 12K in something else... I'll have to work that out with the dealer?

[berencam]

gm makes a longblock 350 4 bolt main, 290 horse motor for $1440.00 you could use the intake, exhaust, carb and dizzy you already have and it would bee a pretty quick swap, its the motor im running and im more than happy with it. your local gm dealer should have them instock.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by berencam

gm makes a longblock 350 4 bolt main, 290 horse motor for $1440.00 you could use the intake, exhaust, carb and dizzy you already have and it would bee a pretty quick swap, its the motor im running and im more than happy with it. your local gm dealer should have them instock.

That's what I hope to do! Almost everything on my motor is less than a year or two old. $1,440? SWEET.

I wonder why there is such a price difference between dealers? I called about the motors a few years ago and was told around $1600 from a couple dealers?

I'm kinda enthused about this already, but it wont be happening until early '08. Gotta get a few other things lined up first, like a house

[67_C-30]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

. Gotta get a few other things lined up first, like a house

WHAT??? You're going to waste money on a HOUSE??? just live in the truck!!

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by 67_C-30

WHAT??? You're going to waste money on a HOUSE??? just live in the truck!!

Not really, throwing away $550/mo on an apartment....

Just waiting for my fiance to find where she's going to get a job so we can find a house that's "between" our jobs. She graduates vet school in may, but should have a job lined up before then.

I can't do a motor swap at my apartment and my future inlaws *did* live 25 mintues away, but had to relocate to Greensboro, NC last month because his job moved. My future pops is awesome, he would have let me use his garage for a couple weekends.