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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
I need some opinion and advice from other members. This is a long one however you need all the info to understand where I am at. HELP
I have a 1972 Chevy c10 with a 350, 3 speed auto. Its a lovely beast and you can see her in the pics associated with my user name. Ill cut out as much detail from my problem to give you an idea so you can comment. Easy way to tell this. Moving from San Francisco to new york. So decided to drive and take my very well maintained and loved truck with me. Now I blew the 350 on xmas eve last year on the I5 literally at the exit to Bakersfield CA and took the truck to an engine builder there( I will omit there name as I am still communicating) To have a totally new engine built. 5K later merry xmas to me I had a new engine. Without getting into too much tech at the moment its got a comp cam ported polished heads and everything that you would want. I can go into detail if needed. Was what I had originally planned to put in when the assumed perfectly good 350 aged a little more. What i then did is drive to phoenix where shortly after leaving Bakersfield I noticed oil leaking from the bottom of the engine at a rather dramatic pace. In fact every 20-40 miles i was replacing oil. I was very very careful to check that the oil level did not get low and continued to drive very carefully and went to a shop in phoenix to let them have a look. They were a friend of the shop that built the engine. We discovered that the oil pan was not bolted on very well at all and that the reused rocker covers from my original motor were rubbish. At this point I really do have to mention that this motor was built over xmas. Some of the bits from my original engine are still there. There was nothing wrong with them however none of them are in the core of the new small block. Only the starter, HEI distributor and edelbrock 750 carb, Alternator and exterior bits were reused. I remember that the rocker covers had not been the best on my original 350 so I went and got some edelbrock aluminum ones and new gaskets and tightened it all up. it seemed it was all good. Changed the oil and proceeded to drive. engine went fine however continued to burn about 1 quart of oil for every 200 miles driven. Now I was on the freeway at 65 Mph average/. Kept it low and did not push the engine although the guy that built it assured me that it was ok and would not break. This is where it gets interesting. I continued to drive to New York and have to say made it here fine. All be it using lots and lots of quarts of oil. So after communicating on a very regular basis with the builder who was and still is very helpful took it to a new mechanic here that seems to be good and knows his muscle cars and engines. I was told by the builder to put 30 weight oil back in the engine and a new filter. So this is what I have done. We also checked the timing and it was at 4 deg. I called the builder and he said it should be at 12-14 deg. we adjusted it and wow She flies. lowered the idle too as it was having a lot of run on. On one occasion it was bad and smoke came out of the bonnet like there was a fire in the engine. Not so good. Not doing this now. Now this is where it is not so good. Its still eating oil at the same rate and although there is no smell or leaks its still using tons of oil. This leads to a new set of problems. After the oil change the passenger side of the engine has become very tappy. So much infact that I can not drive it and think there has either been head or valve damage. There is a loud tapping noise that seems to come and go. Sounds a little like an exhaust leak. ( however its not) and its not firing properly like a cylinder is not there. Its hard to tell with a really lumpy cam when you start it up but when it settles down it when revved a little sounds horrible. There is a loud banging along with the tapping. I have replaced all the spark wires to eliminate this as a possibility. Its just not firing properly. So after all this if you have read this far. Would you think that the freshly built engine with all the top Quality stuff from a really good shop is cactus. Its now done 4000 miles and I cant drive it. Or is it just adjustments. I am unsure of the law in California however i picked this motor up on the 27 dec and its not running like a 5k motor to me .. There seems to be too many things going wrong. Help...... |
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#2 | |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Studio City, Calif.
Posts: 2,872
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
If you were to take out all the spark plugs and crank it over with a compression gage held or screwed in one cylinder at a time (three or so revolutions each time) you could determine if there is something like a thrown rod,bent valve etc. Take off the valve covers and see if all valves are working properly. Check the oil for metal shavings. Then report back to the builder and see what he says. I assume it is still under warranty.
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'69 GMC C2500 Custom Camper, 8 1/2' bed, New GM 350, NP 435 Close Ratio 4spd. Trans., 3.73 Dana-60 open.Camper and Trailer wiring, PS, PB, AC, tach , three gas tanks, stereo speakers, 2nd owner, Work-Truck supreme. |
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#3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Terrell, TX
Posts: 1,967
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Yikes...the loud banging isn't a good sign. Sounds like the bottom end isn't happy. The tapping could be pushrods...had that happen once myself. Most rebuilders re-use valvetrain components and I hate that they do that. Mine had the original pushrods re-used and they were coming apart at the top. I had to replace all of them and several rockers.
The leaks aren't normal at all for a new motor. The tapping could also be an adjustment, so I'd take it to someone to check it. But the loud banging usually means connecting rods or pistons. You could drop the pan to see the rod journals for wear...shouldn't be any this soon, but if there is a big problem down below it might show up. As far as the oil usage and smoke...that usually means rings...one of them might not have seated correctly. Hope it's all easy fixes and that the motor builder stands behind his work.
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Kelly '05 GMC Sierra SLE Z71 Bone stock except for new bed rail caps. Last edited by Gray Ghost; 01-18-2009 at 05:35 PM. |
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#4 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Studio City, Calif.
Posts: 2,872
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Also check for water in the oil,or oil in the water.
__________________
'69 GMC C2500 Custom Camper, 8 1/2' bed, New GM 350, NP 435 Close Ratio 4spd. Trans., 3.73 Dana-60 open.Camper and Trailer wiring, PS, PB, AC, tach , three gas tanks, stereo speakers, 2nd owner, Work-Truck supreme. |
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Temecula,CA
Posts: 309
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
The loud noises don't sound good. Do you have a solid flat tappet or hydraulic? Kinda sounds like a lifter could be hanging up. Does it smoke really bad when you first start it up? Do you know if the shop did anything with the valve guides? The more info on the motor the better. Thanks
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Nick Old pic of my 72: http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0435co5.jpg 04 Silverado Daily Driver 68 GMC short step http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=379665 "I'll beat you to the gas station!!" ![]() ![]() |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Sarasota, Fl.
Posts: 441
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Was the cam broke in properly? Could it be a worn lobe on the cam? Its hard to tell without being there to listen to it, but take everyone else's suggestion and take it to a good mechanic and have them diagnose it.
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#7 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: King City, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 974
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
i had a brand new 383 stroker built, nd right from day one the valvetrain had been making tapping noises. went back to the builder, and like you, he suggested a heavier motor oil. i started running 20W-50 and the tapping noises seemed to go away for another 2000 miles. well the tapping came back a little, and seemed to get worse as the motor warmed up ( the oil is getting thinner) well one day is started BANGING. like serious vavledrain problems. i had a whole batch of bad lifters (hydralic) and they were just plain wearing out. i only chaged the two that were seriously bad, as all the others seemed fine, the motor ran good for about 3-4 days, now the noise is starting to creep back up again.
take the valve covers off, and if you have hydraulic lifters, just push down agaisnt the lifters. if you do this within about a half hour of running the engine (the lifters havent bled down yet) they should be extremly firm, and you shouldn't get much movement out of them. also check for consistency, make sure you get the same amount of movement out of all of them.. if they need replacing, I'd replace them with some good ol' GM performance hydralic lifters... ..sorry for the long post.
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- Jason If you can turn, Youre not going fast enough. Favorite caption: first car to 200 mph in the 1/4 mile, no parachute, drum brakes all the way around.. ..back when men were men. |
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#8 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
I am going to do what you have suggested. I am not completely inept when it comes to motors. Just not as confident as I was when I was younger and this seems a little over my skill level. Ill let you know what I find. |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
It doesn't smoke at all this is the weird thing. Only time that it does is if you are already moving and floor it. You get crap out of the exhaust. whether this is unburnt fuel or oil I can not say. However if you flog any engine this way it will produce something. As for the valves and heads. The valves are all stainless. and the heads are ported polished and every single component of the block is brand new. The mechanic that I took it to even commented on how amazing it went after we adjusted the timing and the only real comment he made was that the carb is not really big enough for this kind of performance motor. I agree that its something to do with either lifters or tappets. and that the oil must be going as the rings have not seated properly, however there is no burnt oil smell or oil smoke at all. Until this banging started and missfiring for the 100 miles that it did go it was really really amazing and sounded like what I paid for. I am not a mechanic and I have spent more than i would like to mention on this beast in the last few months so I am not in a position to ship it back. The builder has been really great however is it time to call it quits.
Is this a sure fire that its toast. Problem is that I am in New York and the builder is in Bakersfield. So its not like I can just pop in for him to have a look. |
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#10 | |
Registered User
![]() Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Missouri
Posts: 165
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
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#11 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lewisville, Nc
Posts: 10,234
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
first off was the cam break in period done? i also havebeen told the first 3k miles of the life of a new engine there should be no constat high speeds ie anything over 40 mph iif you do the ring will never seat propley. sounds to me that the cam is gone and or the proper break in period wasn;t done and the motor is just trash because the rings did not seat right ihope you figure it out reall easy
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David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube Last edited by truckdude239; 01-18-2009 at 06:16 PM. |
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#12 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
Now these are the things that I also believed when running in an engine. So I was really cautious. It was built and run on a dyno before it was put in the truck. I was told that It was put under load and tested when it was assembled. This guy has been doing this for 30 years. I really do trust that its not a bodge shop. I mentioned this to him and he assured me that it was a very strong motor and that it would be very much ok up to 6500rpm somewhere that i would not be taking it with normal driving. I have only done what I was advised was ok to do. Of course using my own brain and being cautious. |
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#13 |
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Carmel, IN
Posts: 187
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
5K for a 350 rebuild? That seems excessive. If he is not offering you a brand new engine, you need a lawyer, you picked a bad shop. I hope he has insurance.
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#14 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
However. It is not doing what its meant to do. This is why I am really worried. |
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#15 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Lewisville, Nc
Posts: 10,234
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
i agree that 5k seems excessuve but hey if you add alot of aftermarket parts it adds up quick. only way to find out what has happened is to tear the motor down .
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David fuller Ase Certified Mechanic Click here to help support our board!! 1971 Chevy c-10 under going a 4.8l LSx swap Build Thread http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=421305 2007 Honda Accord my daily 145kmiles 2002 Honda Accord 4 door With 330k(sisters car) 2005 toyota Avalon 228k( brothers car) 2002 Sububran 5.3 245k 2000 Tahoe 5.3l 378 General manager for Marco's Carwash & lube |
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#16 |
Old member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,936
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
If the shop that built it has stayed in touch with you then I would expect them to pay for it. Sounds to me you need to take it out and have it looked at. You say you built it over Christmas and then drove to NY. That's not a good way to break a engine in. To many RPM's up front want help seat everything properly. The engine needs to go through cycles of warm up and cooling off.
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1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 ![]() Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs. |
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#17 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
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#18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Blountville, Tn.
Posts: 3,904
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
I mean if you already have that much into it, you need to find out whats wrong. But if you decide to wash your hands of it. contact me, I'll come get it. ![]()
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*We could learn a lot from crayons... Some are sharp; some are pretty;and some are dull. Some have weird names; and all are different colours;but they all have to live in the same box. * You may be only one person in the world, But you may also be the world to one person. * Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once. Two rules in life. 1. Never sweat the small stuff! 2. Everything is small stuff! |
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#19 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
How very boring indeed. |
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#20 |
Old member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,936
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Sounds to me you need to talk to him and have a shop look at it and if it's parts failure see if he would help pay on it. That's about all you can do. If he say's yes good if he say's no well then it's yours! I hope he say's YES!
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1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 ![]() Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs. |
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#21 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
The circumstances were not ideal I know however. There was really nothing that I could do. The previous engine was totally fine. and it blew up completely out of the blue on the freeway. This is pretty amazing considering that this truck spent most of its time round a bunch of amazing mechanics in SF. No one saw that coming at all. |
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Livermore ca
Posts: 699
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
sounds like the cam went bad to me. Can you have some body bump the motor over while you watch the rocker arm move. With all the problems with motor oils these days its just not uncommon thing to see.
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York NY
Posts: 55
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
Fingers crossed. |
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#24 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Livermore ca
Posts: 699
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
you have a flat cam. Stop there. If he will warranty a flat cam then thats pretty good. Most wont.
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#25 | |
Sierra Grande Club
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Mexico USA
Posts: 2,433
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Re: Freshly rebuilt 350 burning oil and tappet noise.
Quote:
You said you used non detergent oil, I'm not sure if it has any zinc at all. s/t
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1971 GMC Sierra Grande, 1/2 ton short wide, original 4 bolt 010 020 block & heads. (matching #'s). 383 stroker, SMI q jet 750 cfm, Lunati Voodoo 60102 cam, Scorpion roller rockers, Spin Tech pro street mufflers with X pipe. ![]() |
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350, burning oil, chevy c10, new engine |
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