Non technical moral dilemma

[Chevy nutcase]

Does anyone ever second guess a decision to swap out perfectly good parts or components for ones that are merely updated, stronger or cosmetic? Let me explain. About a year ago I bought my 66 c10 dream truck after 3 years of searching. It was 100% fine the day I brought it home but I couldn't leave it that way. I had to make it mine. Lowered it, upgraded to power 5 lug brakes, new tires and wheels, cleaned and painted the motor which now has a new HEI. I enjoy driving it around and the 250 runs very good which starts so easy I can lean in the window, give a bit of choke and it takes off. The accompanying sm420 also seems fine even tho it's geared super low so it's basically a 3 speed. As ok as it is to drive I think I could be having more fun lol. My evil brain that's very liberal with my bank account is telling me I have to get a v8 in there and possibly an m22 as well. I'm aware of the cost and that's part of why I'm torn removing a good 6. As a teen I never hesitated. Nowadays I try to preserve history while not spending billions.

Maybe this thread will get relocated or tossed but it would be lovely to hear opinions either way

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Chevy nutcase

Does anyone ever second guess a decision to swap out perfectly good parts or components for ones that are merely updated, stronger or cosmetic?

Probably every person who visits this site.

K

[scottofksu]

Not to be a downer but your life and that of the truck are finite. Do what you want to it! It won't mind! LOL
That said, I think it is a bigger "sin" to spend money twice if it can be avoided. Make a plan, prepare for the plan (e.g., getting all parts and resources sourced), and then execute on the plan! As part of planning, I would use an RPM calculator plugging in the various gearing considerations (e.g., transmission, final drive, and wheel height) compared to where the engine you would like makes power to ensure the M22 is what you want/need.

[Chevy nutcase]

Originally Posted by scottofksu

Not to be a downer but your life and that of the truck are finite. Do what you want to it! It won't mind! LOL
That said, I think it is a bigger "sin" to spend money twice if it can be avoided. Make a plan, prepare for the plan (e.g., getting all parts and resources sourced), and then execute on the plan! As part of planning, I would use an RPM calculator plugging in the various gearing considerations (e.g., transmission, final drive, and wheel height) compared to where the engine you would like makes power to ensure the M22 is what you want/need.

Lol spending money twice... oh if there's one thing I'm really good at. When I got the truck and had it inspected the garage pointed out all the brake hoses and linings needed replacing so I replaced EVERYTHING including the single reservoir master cyl. Fast forward 3 months and half the stuff I bought to pass inspection was replaced again when I lowered it on 5 lug front disks and a 71 5 lug rear. That was purely a product of my impatience. Live and learn

As for the gearing I went from 3:73 to 3:40 and I know with an m22 it's not going to be great on the highway but I can live with it. I considered a T5 for the 5th gear overdrive but I've gathered they don't like much hp going through them. There is the Tremec options but they tend to be more pricy than a rebuilt muncie but at that point I'm splitting hairs.

[Chevy Fleetside]

Before you pull the 6 for an 8. Try to find the thread with all the 6 cyl engines in them and see how some have tricked out theirs before doing a swap.

[dragracer98]

Originally Posted by Chevy nutcase

Does anyone ever second guess a decision to swap out perfectly good parts or components for ones that are merely updated, stronger or cosmetic? Let me explain. About a year ago I bought my 66 c10 dream truck after 3 years of searching. It was 100% fine the day I brought it home but I couldn't leave it that way. I had to make it mine.

My opinion is that you just continue to make it your own. I come from the same school as you. I want to keep as much of the history of my 64 as I can, but still making it my own. I will wind up probably 97-98% original. Nothing major but changes that I want, without getting too crazy. What V-8 are you thinking about? I love the LS engine platform, but I also love the old school 327 that is in mine and will not change it, but someday it will have EFI. Bottom line is as you said, make it yours. Good luck in whatever direction you go. Sounds like a fun project

[bhap]

I went from a leaky 235 to an L31 crate engine in my 62. I have/had the same reservations and in the end decided to do the conversion, but do as little "permanent" damage as possible. My truck came with the 3.38 rear from the factory and the 235 was a bit anemic on western PA hills, so the V-8 is a good fit performance-wise. I have the 235 sitting on a stand in the corner of the garage and if the originality police ever show up, I could probably swap it back in over a weekend. I guess I preserved my options - and that of the next guy to own my truck..

[pdxhall]

I would stick with the six and go for an overdrive transmission such as the 700R4. That's what I've got. 70mph at 1800 rpm. I do have a V8, though but I love the build ups some on here have done with the 6.

[Chevy nutcase]

Originally Posted by dragracer98

My opinion is that you just continue to make it your own. I come from the same school as you. I want to keep as much of the history of my 64 as I can, but still making it my own. I will wind up probably 97-98% original. Nothing major but changes that I want, without getting too crazy. What V-8 are you thinking about? I love the LS engine platform, but I also love the old school 327 that is in mine and will not change it, but someday it will have EFI. Bottom line is as you said, make it yours. Good luck in whatever direction you go. Sounds like a fun project

A 327 was exactly what I had my eye on. I also considered a 283 but after poking around I learned they require a bit of coin because a stock build wouldn't have much more grunt than my 250. I have several possible local candidates on marketplace between $200 and $500 but i could actually vomit at the thought of buying a possible boat anchor. I understand why the LS is preferred by so many but it never was an option for me as I want to keep this truck as simple as possible

[theastronaut]

I just took my '66 on a 1100 mile road trip from SC to KY while towing a car, then up to OH and back to SC. It's 95% stock mechanically, I've only removed the stock fan and added an HHR fan/shroud for better mileage, a little more power, and less noise at cruising speed. It has a 250, three speed on the column, and 3.73 gears. Still has the original points distributor- I tried HEI and it didn't start or run any better and the modules either went bad or never were right straight out of the box. Underneath it has a CPP disc/spindle kit, D2600 air bags in place of the rear springs (I wanted it lowered but still have carrying capacity), and the rear shocks are relocated. The rear shock relocation required drilling a hole in the frame, one on each side but that could easily be welded up later on. Nothing else has been irreversible.

Would a V8 with overdrive worked any better? Not really, it held 70-75 mph up hills while towing and would cruise at 80. 85 mph is 3700 rpm so it's starting to run out of steam at illegal speeds, but pulls adequately even when towing until then. Taking the fan off eliminates the "screaming engine" noises at speed that everyone complains about. It got 12.6 mpg towing at 70-75 through lots of hills, which really isn't too terrible without having overdrive. It got 16 mpg empty at 60-65 mph, again not terrible.

My main complaint after the trip- Wind noise from driving with the windows down at 70-75 mph will give you a headache after 10 hours on the road. A/C would fix that. I left the windows up on the return trip, had the kick panel vents open, and the passenger vent window cracked to let air from the kick panel vents out which worked great to keep the cab cool with less wind noise- no headache when I got home.

You can upgrade everything, but it's not really *necessary* to get them out and use and enjoy them. If its a fairly original truck then I'd say lightly modify it if you want but don't do anything irreversible, past that find one that's already modified if that's what you want.

[Lugnutz65]

I stumbled upon a great deal on a 1966 283ci SBC rebuilt by Jasper with ZERO miles. It was still in the plastic.
I wasn’t satisfied with the 230ci in my 1965 C10 short bed. I have a 230ci in my 1963 short bed and I LOVE IT! The 230ci in my 1965 just didn’t perform as well as the one in my 63, so I decided to swap in the 283.
Fast forward. The 283ci is in my 1965 and I’m not impressed. Maybe I need to investigate why a little more. The 283 SBC is 0.040 over with a slightly better cam than factory, but nothing radical. Cast iron 2 barrel intake and freshly rebuilt Rochester 2Jet carb. Starts, idles, and runs just fine. I honestly think my 230 is more enjoyable. It has plenty of power.

My advice is worth 2 cents. I’d trade the 283 for another 230 like the one that’s in my other truck. Too late now. Keep the inline six you have unless it’s giving you problems. Just sayin’.

[AcampoDave]

Originally Posted by Lugnutz65

I stumbled upon a great deal on a 1966 283ci SBC rebuilt by Jasper with ZERO miles. It was still in the plastic.
I wasn’t satisfied with the 230ci in my 1965 C10 short bed. I have a 230ci in my 1963 short bed and I LOVE IT! The 230ci in my 1965 just didn’t perform as well as the one in my 63, so I decided to swap in the 283.
Fast forward. The 283ci is in my 1965 and I’m not impressed. Maybe I need to investigate why a little more. The 283 SBC is 0.040 over with a slightly better cam than factory, but nothing radical. Cast iron 2 barrel intake and freshly rebuilt Rochester 2Jet carb. Starts, idles, and runs just fine. I honestly think my 230 is more enjoyable. It has plenty of power.

My advice is worth 2 cents. I’d trade the 283 for another 230 like the one that’s in my other truck. Too late now. Keep the inline six you have unless it’s giving you problems. Just sayin’.

I think it warrants a bit of investigation. Of course more carb would help, but even my stocker responded well to a nice timing curve. I put one of those Mr Gasket balancer degree tapes on it and was surprised that my distributor's max advace was on the low side. I bumped the initial higher to get the "all in" up and the old motor did perk up. Edit: I think some aftermarket distributors are set up that way (perfomance curve) because they plan on the user having his initial at 12 degrees or higher.

[Chevy nutcase]

Well if I'd have taken a poll the "do what you want" option would've won lol. Got a bunch of wheel pucs too lol. Anyway It was kind of the push I was hoping for. I already have my peepers fixed on a complete 68 327 for $350. I'll likely have a machine shop look it over but that's a bridge I'll cross later. In the meantime I'd like to hear what trannys you'd guys use for a mild build in a cruiser. I've heard a T5 being a great choice for normal driving but wont last if whipped to hard. There's the borg Warner T10, Tremec which i know nothing about, NV3500 that I believe needs an electrical speedo or a Muncy m21 or m22. I know a guy who has quality rebuit units ready to go. Sure no overdrive but not the end of the world. There's probably a ton of pros and cons I'm unaware of but then again that's why this cool place exists

[Chevy nutcase]

[QUOTE=theastronaut;9208464]I just took my '66 on a 1100 mile road trip from SC to KY while towing a car, then up to OH and back to SC. It's 95% stock mechanically, I've only removed the stock fan and added an HHR fan/shroud for better mileage, a little more power, and less noise at cruising speed. It has a 250, three speed on the column, and 3.73 gears. Still has the original points distributor- I tried HEI and it didn't start or run any better and the modules either went bad or never were right straight out of the box. Underneath it has a CPP disc/spindle kit, D2600 air bags in place of the rear springs (I wanted it lowered but still have carrying capacity), and the rear shocks are relocated. The rear shock relocation required drilling a hole in the frame, one on each side but that could easily be welded up later on. Nothing else has been irreversible.

Would a V8 with overdrive worked any better? Not really, it held 70-75 mph up hills while towing and would cruise at 80. 85 mph is 3700 rpm so it's starting to run out of steam at illegal speeds, but pulls adequately even when towing until then. Taking the fan off eliminates the "screaming engine" noises at speed that everyone complains about. It got 12.6 mpg towing at 70-75 through lots of hills, which really isn't too terrible without having overdrive. It got 16 mpg empty at 60-65 mph, again not terrible.

My main complaint after the trip- Wind noise from driving with the windows down at 70-75 mph will give you a headache after 10 hours on the road. A/C would fix that. I left the windows up on the return trip, had the kick panel vents open, and the passenger vent window cracked to let air from the kick panel vents out which worked great to keep the cab cool with less wind noise- no headache when I got home.

You can upgrade everything, but it's not really *necessary* to get them out and use and enjoy them. If its a fairly original truck then I'd say lightly modify it if you want but don't do anything irreversible, past that find one that's already modified if that's what you want.







I'd go so far to say my truck is also 95% stock because the front of my truck received the same CPP treatment but the back was lowered on blocks. I never intended to tow anything with my truck but a previous owner or possibly the original owner towed a lot with it. Evidence of a camper top, trailer wiring, helper springs that Ive removed and a hitch ball on a very sturdy wrap around tow bumper. Part if me is perfectly OK keeping the truck the way it is but what's left if the kid in me wants that v8 sound and just a sprinkle of quickness.

[Matt's k5]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

i just took my '66 on a 1100 mile road trip from sc to ky while towing a car, then up to oh and back to sc. It's 95% stock mechanically, i've only removed the stock fan and added an hhr fan/shroud for better mileage, a little more power, and less noise at cruising speed. It has a 250, three speed on the column, and 3.73 gears. Still has the original points distributor- i tried hei and it didn't start or run any better and the modules either went bad or never were right straight out of the box. Underneath it has a cpp disc/spindle kit, d2600 air bags in place of the rear springs (i wanted it lowered but still have carrying capacity), and the rear shocks are relocated. The rear shock relocation required drilling a hole in the frame, one on each side but that could easily be welded up later on. Nothing else has been irreversible.

Would a v8 with overdrive worked any better? Not really, it held 70-75 mph up hills while towing and would cruise at 80. 85 mph is 3700 rpm so it's starting to run out of steam at illegal speeds, but pulls adequately even when towing until then. Taking the fan off eliminates the "screaming engine" noises at speed that everyone complains about. It got 12.6 mpg towing at 70-75 through lots of hills, which really isn't too terrible without having overdrive. It got 16 mpg empty at 60-65 mph, again not terrible.

My main complaint after the trip- wind noise from driving with the windows down at 70-75 mph will give you a headache after 10 hours on the road. A/c would fix that. I left the windows up on the return trip, had the kick panel vents open, and the passenger vent window cracked to let air from the kick panel vents out which worked great to keep the cab cool with less wind noise- no headache when i got home.

You can upgrade everything, but it's not really *necessary* to get them out and use and enjoy them. If its a fairly original truck then i'd say lightly modify it if you want but don't do anything irreversible, past that find one that's already modified if that's what you want.

love your rear wheels , where did you find them and are they 8 wide AND WHATT TIRE SIZE AND BRAND?

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Matt's k5

love your rear wheels , where did you find them and are they 8 wide AND WHATT TIRE SIZE AND BRAND?

One is old aftermarket chrome reverse, the other is an original center welded into a blank rim from Speedway Motors. They’re both 3 nub 8” with 3.25” backspace. 4” backspace would be better, they’re borderline hard to get on and off between the bedside and drum. At one point Wheel Vintiques was making 8” 6 lug hubcap wheels, not sure if they still do.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

At one point Wheel Vintiques was making 8” 6 lug hubcap wheels, not sure if they still do.

They still make those, both 6 and 5 lug. I have the 5 lug version on my '64. The 15x8 have 4¼" backspacing. Best place to buy them seems to be Summit Racing. The price of the wheel is the same as everywhere else, but Summit ships them for free.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-62-5806044

[Matt's k5]

Originally Posted by theastronaut

one is old aftermarket chrome reverse, the other is an original center welded into a blank rim from speedway motors. They’re both 3 nub 8” with 3.25” backspace. 4” backspace would be better, they’re borderline hard to get on and off between the bedside and drum. At one point wheel vintiques was making 8” 6 lug hubcap wheels, not sure if they still do.

awesome, thank you, what about tires? Im goning for this look, i have some old wheel wheels just need blank wheels

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by Arne

They still make those, both 6 and 5 lug. I have the 5 lug version on my '64. The 15x8 have 4¼" backspacing. Best place to buy them seems to be Summit Racing. The price of the wheel is the same as everywhere else, but Summit ships them for free.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wvi-62-5806044

The main thing I don't like about those is the super wide drop center, where the small diameter inner step that the center welds to comes all the way out to the outer lip. The old aftermarket wheels are reverse rim so the drop center is all to the inside of the wheel, and the larger diameter outer lip is much wider. The hubcap isn't as shrouded this way and they look deeper compared to those or later blazer 8" hubcap wheels.




New aftermarket/Blazer non-reversed rim with wider drop center.

Originally Posted by Matt's k5

awesome, thank you, what about tires? Im goning for this look, i have some old wheel wheels just need blank wheels

They're 215/75 and 235/75. The front wheels are stock and with 1.5" bolt on spacers to clear the calipers and push the skinnier wheel out closer to the fender to match how the 8' rear fills out the fenderwell. I'll eventually build a pair of 7" wheels for the front so I can lose the spacers and have a little bit deeper lip up front.

[jocko]

My 66 had its original 283/3OTT and I eventually swapped the trans for a T5. It was a hard decision - but it was also reversible, which made it much more palatable in my pea brain since I'm (usually) an originality nut. I even made a mild attempt at "trying" to make it look a little factory with the old plain shifter boot and semi-bland shifter (almost painted the shifter black and put an old door knob on it). So, if it helps to tell yourself "it's reversible" like I did, then you may be more than happy with whatever changes you make (and never reverse). As for the T5 living behind higher hp... It can live behind just about anything - it just depends on how you drive it. You can destroy it with a 6 cylinder or it can live forever behind a nice 327. Given you no longer have the original 292, I wouldn't even think twice about swapping in a 327. As for trans - finding an M22 is about as easy as finding a T5 these days, and price-wise can be a toss up, depending on condition, etc - with a true M22 probably costing far more than a junkyard S10 T5 in rea;ity these days (and a car M22 "can" have some stick position issues with a bench seat - they can be addressed though if desired). A World Class T5 is somewhat more sturdy than a non-WC T5, if you can find one. Anyway, the point is this - it's already not stock, so build it how you like it and enjoy

[AcampoDave]

There's a newer M22 called the M22Z
It's a wide ratio and built to be well suited to a 3.08 rear end. I have one and I love it. I got it here https://5speeds.com/
Check out their list of you tube video on the site and don't pass over this page under support pages https://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

[theastronaut]

Originally Posted by AcampoDave

There's a newer M22 called the M22Z
It's a wide ratio and built to be well suited to a 3.08 rear end. I have one and I love it. I got it here https://5speeds.com/
Check out their list of you tube video on the site and don't pass over this page under support pages https://www.5speeds.com/ratios.html

That’s what I eventually want for mine, I love the gear whine in first and second with the stock three speed but any other trans swap besides a M22 (or the new z variant) loses the whine. I have a NP440 OD 4 spd from a squarebody that I’m about to swap in since it’s cheaper and works well with the current 3.73 gears, but I’m not happy about the noise it won’t make.

[AcampoDave]

CrazyLonghorn started a discussion about the M22z a while back. We rambled a bit but it's still interesting. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=730917

[SidsChopShop]

Great question and one I live everyday. I was in the same boat as you loving to drive these trucks. My green 66 was my daily driver for a number of years with the stock 283/3 speed. Wanting to check a few items off my bucket list I built a reliable mild 355 for it and when the road trip bug started to bite a few years after, a Tremec 5 speed found it’s way behind it. After many multi state truck meets, a couple power tours and still being handling daily driver duties, I regrettably missed the feel of driving a stock truck. So I found a 250/3 speed long stepper that has won my heart and tends to be driven way more than my long haul truck.

If you are wanting to upgrade it and have the means to do so, I would say 100% do it! Maybe keep the inline 6 and think about gearing or OD, it’s nice to be able to drive highways at the drop of a hat.

[Chevy nutcase]

Originally Posted by SidsChopShop

Great question and one I live everyday. I was in the same boat as you loving to drive these trucks. My green 66 was my daily driver for a number of years with the stock 283/3 speed. Wanting to check a few items off my bucket list I built a reliable mild 355 for it and when the road trip bug started to bite a few years after, a Tremec 5 speed found it’s way behind it. After many multi state truck meets, a couple power tours and still being handling daily driver duties, I regrettably missed the feel of driving a stock truck. So I found a 250/3 speed long stepper that has won my heart and tends to be driven way more than my long haul truck.

If you are wanting to upgrade it and have the means to do so, I would say 100% do it! Maybe keep the inline 6 and think about gearing or OD, it’s nice to be able to drive highways at the drop of a hat.

Looks like the key to this is another truck in all seriousness you have the best of both in your driveway.
I'd really really really like to keep the 6 for a variety of reasons. One biggie is nobody leaves them in so to me it skyrockets the cool factor. I did up the gearing from 3:73 to 3:43 when I rebuilt the rear. As for an OD I was wondering how the 250 would cooperate with a t5 or tremec behind it. Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the 6 for now as I have some lower hanging fruit I'd like to do first like relocating the gas tank and installing deadmat and carpet while the interior is gutted