T5 5-SPEED to stock bellhousing - rotation

[53lowdown]

I'm looking at replacing my stock 69 C-10 3 speed manual with a T5 5-speed from Camaro or S10. As I understand it, the bolt pattern to the belhousing is the same, but the bellhousings I've seen from Camaro's are rotated/clocked to the left.
So, if I bolt one of these transmissions to my stock bellhousing, it'll rotate the transmission to the right.... Is it ok to run them this way? I'd think maybe the lubrication wouldn't be correct if it's rotated. Also,wouldn't the shifter then point off at a weird angle?

Here's what I'm talking about:

Camaro bellhousing:




Typical GM 3/4-speed bellhousing:

[mvfd70]

Hmm...interesting. How bout just using your old bell housing on the new tranny?

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by mvfd70

Hmm...interesting. How bout just using your old bell housing on the new tranny?

Right - that's what I'm wanting to do. But the T5 from Camaro/S10 use the rotated bellhousing. My stock bellhousing is not rotated so it would rotate the transmission differently. so I'm wondering if anyone has used the T5 with a stock bellhousing and how it worked out.

[grayw0lf]

If you use a T5, use the S-10 bellhousing from the 4.3L.

Better yet, do a search on the thread for hte NV3500 conversion.

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by grayw0lf

If you use a T5, use the S-10 bellhousing from the 4.3L.

But then I'd have to deal with the hydraulic clutch, and would have to put in a rear crossmember right? Didn't want to do all that.

[Longhorn Man]

if you have a 350, and you are making any power at all I wouldn't waste my time. The best of the T5s are only rated at 305 ft pounds, and the garden variety is only rated at 260.
There's a reason they were never installed on anything bigger than a 305.

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

if you have a 350, and you are making any power at all I wouldn't waste my time. The best of the T5s are only rated at 305 ft pounds, and the garden variety is only rated at 260.
There's a reason they were never installed on anything bigger than a 305.

I'm running a 307, so torque is not a problem

[Longhorn Man]

Good deal.
I would pass on the camaro unit. The shafter would be located too far back, and then there's the angle deal. if you were to run the angled bell, then it would be OK, but i suspect you are right on the lube issue.
You'd probably be bets off to install a rear crossmember regardless of what you do. The T5 was never supported in any vahicle (that i am aware of) without a crossmember, and it is all alluminum, so it'd be cheap insurance IMO to install something back there.

[Brad]

Don't use the Camaro bellhousing! Just use your stock bellhousing.
I say that because there's alot of misinformation out there including some on this thread already and I'm trying my best to make it much easier for folks than it was for me.

Here's the caveat; the T-5 uses the smaller bellhousing hole which means you'll need either a '67 and earlier bellhousing or have a machinist make a ring for the '68 & up bellhousing to take up the approx. 1/8" gap between the bellhousing and the bearing retainer. I've heard people not making a ring and just bolting 4 speed transmissions up to the bigger bellhousing hole when doing a trans swap, but I don't advocate that. However, it's probably just fine if used temporarily.
Here's a similar thread which I offer some insight and I'm working on doing a FAQ on this swap: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=251643

I hope this helps.

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by Brad

Don't use the Camaro bellhousing! Just use your stock bellhousing.

So the rotation isn't a problem? Using the stock belhousing, the T5 is rotated about 30 degrees to the right correct? Did you use a rear crossmember? How'd that work out with the transmission rotated differently than the Camaro?
The S10 shifter location would be better for me (further forward), but the Camaro V8's t5 is an easier bolt in. so what I need ( I think), is an 85 Camaro V8 T5, with an S10's tailshaft housing&shifter. Right?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by 53lowdown

The S10 shifter location would be better for me (further forward), but the Camaro V8's t5 is an easier bolt in. so what I need ( I think), is an 85 Camaro V8 T5, with an S10's tailshaft housing&shifter. Right?

Yes. The www.inliners.org site has a very good article on doing this exact thing. Go to the site and you'll see Tech Tips on the LHS. Go to the T-5 page and scroll to the bottom. Click on Camaro T-5 Hybrid and it'll take you to that conversion.

As a side note- I have serious pet peeves with the way the Inliners site is layed out. I've repeatedly brought this up and it gets ignored. Unfortunately, you can't link directly to the Camaro hybrid conversion and it's frustrating!

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by Brad

As a side note- I have serious pet peeves with the way the Inliners site is layed out. I've repeatedly brought this up and it gets ignored. Unfortunately, you can't link directly to the Camaro hybrid conversion and it's frustrating!

If you right click on the "Camaro T5 Hybrid" link on inliners and select Properties, you'll see the link is this http://www.inliners.org/Jack/T5tech.html

Thanks

[53lowdown]

Here's another good article on the T5 swap:
http://www.hemmings.com/mus/stories/...feature25.html
And here's a link to decode the numbers on the T5:
http://www.5speeds.com/t5/index.html

[special-K]

Use the V8 3spd Aluminum bellhousing and keep the auto crossmember.The 6s used the cast iron bellhousing that required the rear engine mounts?crossmember.

[mvfd70]

Yes rotation is a problem. Do not use the bell housing that came with the tranny you have. Use a bell housing that does not rotate the transmission. It's stated above that the '67 or earlier bell housings fit. the '68 or later ones will fit with some modifications. Brad has some great info that has helped me alot. Mine is not done yet but i'll be using his info to finish it.

[53lowdown]

Originally Posted by mvfd70

Yes rotation is a problem. Do not use the bell housing that came with the tranny you have. Use a bell housing that does not rotate the transmission. It's stated above that the '67 or earlier bell housings fit. the '68 or later ones will fit with some modifications. Brad has some great info that has helped me alot. Mine is not done yet but i'll be using his info to finish it.

Ok, one of us isn't getting this. The Camaro bellhousing has it's bolt pattern rotated left. The Camaro transmission is made to work with the Camaro Bellhousing, so that the rear transmission mount is level, and the shifter is vertical, when a Camaro Transmission is used with a Camaro Bellhousing - Right?

So, if you use a 69 bellhousing that has the belhousing bolts level, and bolt the Camaro Transmission to that , the rear transmission mount will be on a 30 degree angle , and the shifter will be rotated 30 degrees to the right. Correct?

[Brad]

Originally Posted by 53lowdown

.....and the shifter will be rotated 30 degrees to the right. Correct?

Yes, that is correct. The Camaro shifter is shown on the right below. Here's how I fixed that.
I took the stock shifter and pulled it apart and turned it around 180* and then mounted it back in the trans. It'll now angle towards the driver which isn't a problem- in fact, it'll be more comfortable than being straight up. Then just bolt in the Camaro shifter and use a Hurst stick to the shifter. I did the latter and cut down the lever a bit and redrilled holes to mount to the Camaro shifter base.
If you have an S-10 shifter, you can do the exact same but it'll just be really far forward in 1st gear so you'll have to reach.
The S-10 style shifter is shown on the left; the Camaro on the right. In the 1st pic, the S-10 shifter is stock, then in the 2nd the shifter has been rotated 180*. The same can be done with the Camaro shifter on the right. Very easy to do.
Hope this helps.

[mvfd70]

Ahhh now I see what you're getting at. Sorry I'm a lil slow sometimes. I don't really know the right answer to your question. Sorry.

[steveshow]

All of this bell housing talk brings up a question. My dad and I are almost done with his 71 GMC 1500 with a stock L6 and 3 on the tree. It currentl does not have a trans cross member. Is this right, or was it pulled at some tiem and not returned?

[Longhorn Man]

steve, the stoc set up has the bellhousing mounted, and the tranny just hanging. So yeah, that is correct.

[Brad]

The first one is a great article! The latter is the one I always use when I'm not sure of what it came out of.

[BHRS]

I have the same T-5 in a different application. I have a '31 Plymouth coupe with a early Hemi with the T-5 Camaro transmission. In the street rod world we change the tail shaft out and replace it with a S-10. On my trans to move the shifter forward I bought a tail shaft, shifter, and shifter rail from a S-10 T-5 transmission. It is a bolt on swap. Use a V8 Camaro transmission for strength and the S-10 tailshaft for the shifter location. Lokar makes a hot rod style shifter handle to bolt to the stock shifter. This swap will move the shifter approx 8 inches closer to the bellhousing away from your seat. I also am using an early 63?-68 Chevy truck bellhousing with the smaller center hole. I am still collecting pieces to build this car, but this swap is commom knowledge with the pre-'48 crowd.

I hope this helps... Brian

[Strider]

I'm trying to do the T5 swap into my 67 chev 1/2 ton. It currently has a 2 speed powerglide and I don't like its weak gears especially first ( 1.82 ratio).
Plus the rear end ratio is a 4:11 I think so my 250 inline 6 does 3000rpm at like 60mph. I figure the T5 will help.
I'm in the process of collecting parts and am looking for an appropriate bellhousing and clutch setup. I have an '87 S10 T5.
What year of bellhousing has smaller holes in the back and why is this necessary to have when mating the T5 to an engine?
Does anyone know if a stock inline 6 bellhousing and clutch will work in terms of bolting up or do I need to use an S-10 clutch with the original bellhousing?
The only bellhousing I have right now is an aluminum one from an '83 chevy truck (I think).
What flywheel would I use too?

Any help would be great and I've been reading these and many other threads on this swap trying to make it as easy as possible!

Strider

[trx450duner]

I am currently running the T-5 in my 68 chevelle with a decent 327 and am usually easy on it but have stood on it a time or two and have had no problems yet. I used the stock camaro bell housing with a hydraulic throw out bearing and a hurst shifter. The trans is the "world class T-5" I beleive the only difference is the synchroe between the normall trans and this unit. All I can say is DONT DUMP THE CLUTCH and you should be OK. I have enough tourq with this car that in 1st gear rolling at 2200 RPM I can stand on it and roast the tires with out touching the clutch (has a possy with about 9" of tire on the ground both sides) so this trans is a little stronger than most give it credit for and I think. GM also offers a high performance gear oil to replace the stock ATF in this unit and it made a noticable difference in shifting.

[trx450duner]

Originally Posted by Strider

I'm trying to do the T5 swap into my 67 chev 1/2 ton. It currently has a 2 speed powerglide and I don't like its weak gears especially first ( 1.82 ratio).
Plus the rear end ratio is a 4:11 I think so my 250 inline 6 does 3000rpm at like 60mph. I figure the T5 will help.
I'm in the process of collecting parts and am looking for an appropriate bellhousing and clutch setup. I have an '87 S10 T5.
What year of bellhousing has smaller holes in the back and why is this necessary to have when mating the T5 to an engine?
Does anyone know if a stock inline 6 bellhousing and clutch will work in terms of bolting up or do I need to use an S-10 clutch with the original bellhousing?
The only bellhousing I have right now is an aluminum one from an '83 chevy truck (I think).
What flywheel would I use too?

Any help would be great and I've been reading these and many other threads on this swap trying to make it as easy as possible!

Strider

I used a factory flywheel for my 327 and the clutch disc and pessure plate for the vehicle that the trans came from because you need the splines on the clutch disc to match the input shaft on the trans. I believe that the s-10 bell housing will bolt up to your inline 6. I think that with the truck tailshaft already on the trans you have the shifter location should work out for you. Good luck.