Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

davepl · 12-29-2011, 12:02 AM

I was about to purchase a 1970 GMC w/ 402, and the seller believes it is the original engine, but that "there is no VIN # present on the pad", in reference to the serial number part.

The left part of the pad reads "TO42TTBG" which sounds about right.

Is it possible there is no serial (partial VIN, sequence number, whatever)? Or is he just missing it?

Thanks!
Dave

mcbassin · 12-29-2011, 12:10 AM

Dave,
Is it possible the engine was rebuilt at some point? They may decked the top of the engine. Wouldn't this have taken that portion off?

davepl · 12-29-2011, 12:12 AM

It's possible. But I've also read that when the alternator moved to the passeger side in 1969 they moved the partial VIN to the oil filter area... hopefully its down there, unless anyone knows they should indeed still be up on the block.

**too much stuff** · 12-29-2011, 12:32 AM

The alternator didn't move until after 72 from the drivers side.

Vintage Windmills · 12-29-2011, 12:58 AM

Vins aren't on truck engines. Thats why he can't find it there.

davepl · 12-29-2011, 01:00 AM

Thanks! So is there ANY way to know if its the original engine?

Vintage Windmills · 12-29-2011, 01:06 AM

Also according to Z28 site http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engine-code-stampings.php the suffix code TBG appears to check out:

TBG 1970 Truck 402 310 400 L-47 10, 20, 30

mcbassin · 12-29-2011, 01:07 AM

I was talking about engine I d number not vin number.
The vin is in the normal place on driver side door pillar
Posted via Mobile Device

davepl · 12-29-2011, 01:17 AM

He's got the Protecto-plate, so I'm assuming that having the engine with the right codes and a date prior to the assembly of the truck is the best I'm going to be able to do.

Being from Canada originally where you can order the original build sheet info from GM Vintage Vehicle services I really hate this nebulous stuff... good thing it's not an LS6 Chevelle :-)

jessemasterblaster · 12-29-2011, 04:47 AM

I am the guy with the said truck and i know were to look for the casting and suffix #'s. The passenger side suffix pad their is the suffix code only no VIN # which with my experience is not always their. The suffix breaks down to the specs exactly as vintage windmills explained in his post.

The suffix code and VIN # are both on the same pad, if the engine was decked none of those #'s would be visable because they would both be machined

I checked the flat area that runs verticly just aft of the oil filter and no VIN # thier either. I thoroughly scraped and wirebrushed and nothing.

I would say if you have a 1970 truck 402 engine said by suffix code on block in a 75k mile 1970 gmc truck, chances are its the original.

Or at some point someone nstalled an identical engine with the same suffix code in this truck.

I really don't think so.

sameyrasmea72 · 12-29-2011, 11:19 AM

These trucks never had a Vin # on the engine like alot of cars did.

Sounds original to me. people always claim their truck is a matching #, but that is impossible to know on these truck. About the best you can do is if you have the protec-to-plate you can match the date and suffix code to the engine pad. If they match it is the original engine or someone when to great lengths to find an engine with the exact engine build date that came out of a same type truck.

**RenoKeene** · 12-29-2011, 11:42 AM

Looks real to me. You can check the date code on the intake also. My 402 is original to my truck and was decked...so the pad numbers were machined off. The block, heads and intake casting numbers all checked out, the intake was cast 11 days after the block. One things for sure, if it did have a VIN on the pad it isn't the original engine, it would have been in a car.

sameyrasmea72 · 12-29-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davepl

He's got the Protecto-plate, so I'm assuming that having the engine with the right codes and a date prior to the assembly of the truck is the best I'm going to be able to do.

If the T042TTBG matches this # on the protec-o-plate, then that is as good as you can do to be sure it is the original engine.

Sport/Truck · 12-29-2011, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameyrasmea72

If the T042TTBG matches this # on the protec-o-plate, then that is as good as you can do to be sure it is the original engine.

Cool! I didn't know that, now I'm going to check mine,

**RenoKeene** · 12-29-2011, 12:23 PM

I'll add this info...the casting date codes are like this, my intake is J 21 9 which translates into 10-21-69. A=Jan B=Feb and so on. The casting date on my block is J 10 9 which leads me to believe they were assembled together. Since my truck was built in Jan 70 I can assume this is the original engine.

47thriftmaster · 12-29-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sameyrasmea72

If the T042TTBG matches this # on the protec-o-plate, then that is as good as you can do to be sure it is the original engine.

Yup, matching the date stamp to the protec-o-plate is the best you can do. As stated before no vin on the engine.

Sport/Truck · 12-29-2011, 01:21 PM

So my protecto plate has V1203TBC. That matches what was on the blocks flat spot near the passenger sides head.

12-29-2011, 12:02 AM	#1
davepl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 6,332	Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? I was about to purchase a 1970 GMC w/ 402, and the seller believes it is the original engine, but that "there is no VIN # present on the pad", in reference to the serial number part. The left part of the pad reads "TO42TTBG" which sounds about right. Is it possible there is no serial (partial VIN, sequence number, whatever)? Or is he just missing it? Thanks! Dave __________________ 1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible

12-29-2011, 12:10 AM	#2
mcbassin Still Learning Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central Oklahoma Posts: 10,108	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? Dave, Is it possible the engine was rebuilt at some point? They may decked the top of the engine. Wouldn't this have taken that portion off? __________________ Mike "69 Short Wide" My Project 86 Silverado Landen's Project Instagram: @mcbassin My Website C/10 Club Oklahoma Facebook Group

12-29-2011, 12:12 AM	#3
davepl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 6,332	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? It's possible. But I've also read that when the alternator moved to the passeger side in 1969 they moved the partial VIN to the oil filter area... hopefully its down there, unless anyone knows they should indeed still be up on the block. __________________ 1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible

12-29-2011, 12:32 AM	#4
too much stuff Roadtrip! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Grand Rapids MN Posts: 13,764	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? The alternator didn't move until after 72 from the drivers side. __________________ 67 gmc custom lwb dakota truck. Sold...And bought back 69 swb 4x4 project (in progress) 70 c-10 lwb texas truck 70 4x4/BB/bkts/posi/tach(retired) 70 swb (wifes) 70 jimmy camper 71 K-5 factory 2wd 71 cheyenne 4x4/tach/posi/ plow rig 71 Cheyenne20 BB, buckets, tach, tilt, 4 speed 72 jimmy CST wyoming rig 72 jimmy Colorado rig 72 lifted texas 4x4 3/4 ton burb 65 fury conv. 383/auto 65 chrysler 300 "L" 413 auto

12-29-2011, 12:58 AM	#5
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? Vins aren't on truck engines. Thats why he can't find it there. __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

12-29-2011, 01:00 AM	#6
davepl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 6,332	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? Thanks! So is there ANY way to know if its the original engine? __________________ 1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible

12-29-2011, 01:06 AM	#7
Vintage Windmills Vintage 4x4s Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Prior Lake, MN Posts: 4,305	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? Also according to Z28 site http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engine-code-stampings.php the suffix code TBG appears to check out: TBG 1970 Truck 402 310 400 L-47 10, 20, 30 __________________ 67 GMC K1500 Custom- 305V6 SM420, PTO, Ram Assist, yellow (the outcast) (project period correct upgrades) 67 GMC C2500 351V6 TH400, AC, PS, PB (can't decide what to do with. Update, decided to keep and will restore ) 86 CHV K30 502 th400, apple red NEW 71 CHV K20 350 SM465, ochre (saved work truck) 71 CHV K20 292 SM465, white, tach, PTO, (future project) 72 CHV K20 350 350th, medium blue (project stocker) 01 CHV K2500hd crew, indigo blue ^3 dont run and the others don't see winter either '86 K30 Cummins "Fireside" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=649649 '71 K20 "get driveable" thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=590642 '72 K20 Build Thread: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=493477&page=6

12-29-2011, 01:07 AM	#8
mcbassin Still Learning Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Central Oklahoma Posts: 10,108	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? I was talking about engine I d number not vin number. The vin is in the normal place on driver side door pillar Posted via Mobile Device __________________ Mike "69 Short Wide" My Project 86 Silverado Landen's Project Instagram: @mcbassin My Website C/10 Club Oklahoma Facebook Group

12-29-2011, 01:17 AM	#9
davepl Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 6,332	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? He's got the Protecto-plate, so I'm assuming that having the engine with the right codes and a date prior to the assembly of the truck is the best I'm going to be able to do. Being from Canada originally where you can order the original build sheet info from GM Vintage Vehicle services I really hate this nebulous stuff... good thing it's not an LS6 Chevelle :-) __________________ 1970 GMC Sierra Grande Custom Camper - Built, not Bought 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Coupe 1969 Pontiac 2+2 427/390 4-speed Convertible

12-29-2011, 04:47 AM	#10
jessemasterblaster Registered User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: poulsbo, WA Posts: 64	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? I am the guy with the said truck and i know were to look for the casting and suffix #'s. The passenger side suffix pad their is the suffix code only no VIN # which with my experience is not always their. The suffix breaks down to the specs exactly as vintage windmills explained in his post. The suffix code and VIN # are both on the same pad, if the engine was decked none of those #'s would be visable because they would both be machined I checked the flat area that runs verticly just aft of the oil filter and no VIN # thier either. I thoroughly scraped and wirebrushed and nothing. I would say if you have a 1970 truck 402 engine said by suffix code on block in a 75k mile 1970 gmc truck, chances are its the original. Or at some point someone nstalled an identical engine with the same suffix code in this truck. I really don't think so. Attached Images

12-29-2011, 11:19 AM	#11
sameyrasmea72 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Lubbock, Texas Posts: 2,443	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? These trucks never had a Vin # on the engine like alot of cars did. Sounds original to me. people always claim their truck is a matching #, but that is impossible to know on these truck. About the best you can do is if you have the protec-to-plate you can match the date and suffix code to the engine pad. If they match it is the original engine or someone when to great lengths to find an engine with the exact engine build date that came out of a same type truck. __________________ 72 Cheyenne Super 80 Silverado Blazer 2wd

12-29-2011, 11:42 AM	#12
RenoKeene Florida Edition Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Fruitland Park, FL Posts: 4,028	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? Looks real to me. You can check the date code on the intake also. My 402 is original to my truck and was decked...so the pad numbers were machined off. The block, heads and intake casting numbers all checked out, the intake was cast 11 days after the block. One things for sure, if it did have a VIN on the pad it isn't the original engine, it would have been in a car. Attached Images __________________ 70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394

12-29-2011, 12:23 PM	#15
RenoKeene Florida Edition Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Fruitland Park, FL Posts: 4,028	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? I'll add this info...the casting date codes are like this, my intake is J 21 9 which translates into 10-21-69. A=Jan B=Feb and so on. The casting date on my block is J 10 9 which leads me to believe they were assembled together. Since my truck was built in Jan 70 I can assume this is the original engine. __________________ 70 GMC Short Stepside "Rose"-An American Beauty: Factory 402/TH400, AM/FM, AC, Tilt, Tach, Buckets, Posi, PS, PB, 3-5 Drop, Complete Resto-Rod 67 C-20 Slant Back Wrecker "Mad Max" 67 C-10 Ratrod "Step-N-Wolf" 71 Serro Scotty Sportsman camper "Scotty" 97 LT1 Z28 "The Hornet" Link to more pics of "Rose" http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/a...p?albumid=1684 Check out my "Cheap Tricks" thread and add to it if you can, lots of good info there. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=489394

12-29-2011, 01:21 PM	#17
Sport/Truck Sierra Grande Club Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: New Mexico USA Posts: 2,433	Re: Urgent - No VIN number on pad - original engine? So my protecto plate has V1203TBC. That matches what was on the blocks flat spot near the passenger sides head. __________________ 1971 GMC Sierra Grande, 1/2 ton short wide, original 4 bolt 010 020 block & heads. (matching #'s). 383 stroker, SMI q jet 750 cfm, Lunati Voodoo 60102 cam, Scorpion roller rockers, Spin Tech pro street mufflers with X pipe.



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