numbers matching? original engine?

[rowleybd]

So my 69 C10 with 350 is a little tired and having carb issues. I am considering rebuilding or going crate/LS swap. I think if it is original numbers matching and salvageable, It would be better to rebuild the 350 this winter....if not, I would likely move to LS with FI as I want a really reliable daily!

The photo is from a year or so ago...I have new HEI, Q-jet, alternator and many other replaced parts!

What do you guys think?

[camtoys1]

keep og

[leftybass209]

There are no numbers to match on these trucks, such as a vin stamped in the block. The best you could do is a date code that precedes when the truck was built.

It's always good to hang onto the original parts if you have the room. Barring that, these trucks don't have a consistent collectible value based on originality. Cheyenne Super pickups command a good price, but I've seen bagged customs take home more dollars than beautiful BB Short Fleets.

[mike16]

Looking at some of the "interpretations" of what defines origonal clearly; it is not understood.

Your truck is not origonal, and it will never be origonal again. It probably would cost way too much to restore it back to "correct" condition

But be carefull about make choices based on what ever definition is stated above about what difines origonal.

You wont find a part number or vin number on every nut bolt and washer but major components like starters, alternators carbs and distributors, differentials,transmissions , rims and the like have part numbers,casting numbers or dates codes that identify what the part is, and when it was made. That is matched to the equipment spid document attached to the glovebox door. origonal trucks will also have origonal hardware and other detail parts that came on the truck when new and remain on the truck currently

and if your truck is a matching numbers truck then it does add considerable value in some markets where others look for those qualities and characteristics. One only has to look at the market for a corvette to understand the numbers matching game and how the two markets are so different that there is no real comparison. Ditto for Chevelle and camaro's.

Numbers matching , in a given market, absolutely matters. but when compared to a custom vehicle valued in a different market, apples and oranges.

Its rediculous to compare an origonal numbers matching truck to a custom truck. in terms of value. Apples and oranges.

I bought my origonal numbers matching truck for just south of 10K. A custom truck, something you threw 75K into, will certainly be worth more simply because it cost astronomically more. to buy and or to build. origonal trucks dont have to be built so there is none of that Labor cost either, And even when you take a financial hit it will most likely sell for more. But in terms of cost in real dollars and as a percent of your initial investment, you will take a greater hit. the reality is, there are two different markets. and increasing the value of a truck by simply bolting expensive parts on it, well yes its going to increase the value of that or any truck, but once you broke the bank will you ever see anything like your initial investment. probably not.

to say that they dont have a consistant collectable value based on origonality... well I guess thats true, Not consistant at all. they keep going up in value, so no, there is no consistancy in the value in that respect. very few custom trucks increase in value. and be carefull of the fraud that goes on to increase the value of a vehicle, that is not a true and accurate reflection of a vehicles value. maybe ego. If your custom truck see's alot of magazine space then maybe...maybe.. in a few generations it will recover its value.

Origonal trucks are cheaper too and hold thier value better and longer. even when factoring in downs in the market or inflation.

and were not talking about restored trucks, thats a different market too. Apples and oranges again

Thats just my opinion but its based upon alot of facts and truth's. But remember its apples and oranges, go check out the Corvette market

I had a carb issue and an ignition issue and every other type of issue in one of my trucks, pretty much all went away when i replaced a rusty dirty old fuel tank, blew alot of mud out of the lines too.

[Chevyland]

I personally believe that
Original trucks with their original equipment
Will be sought after the most
In the future
As these trucks become more and more collected.
Especially desirable models!
Look at the other markets mentioned above,
Corvette, Camaro, Chevelle.
ORIGINALITY MATTERS

There is no guaranteed way to tell numbers matching engine
The closest you will get is by
Checking casting #s and dates on back of block by distributor hole
But
To me just importantly is the stamp on front tab of block
Just in front of head on passenger side

Here is a great resource on thishttp://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engine...ngs.php#suffix

Read it if you care, when you are buying for originality
That with general knowledge/feeling of what original looks like
Should get you pretty confident if it is authentic or not

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

There are no numbers to match on these trucks, such as a vin stamped in the block. The best you could do is a date code that precedes when the truck was built.

Incorrect. There is a number stamped onto the block on the passenger side, right in front of the cylinder head that directly correlates to the protecto-plate.

If the block has been milled/decked though it might be gone.

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by NC_John

Incorrect. There is a number stamped onto the block on the passenger side, right in front of the cylinder head that directly correlates to the protecto-plate.

If the block has been milled/decked though it might be gone.

Yes. There are those #s on the front of the block
And the last 3 digits
Correlate with YOM, HP, engine size, and type of transmission
It is all posted in that link
On page 14 of this thread
But
I have never heard or saw
Anything
That stated, it directly correlates with the protecto-plate

[NC_John]

Originally Posted by Chevyland

Yes. There are those #s on the front of the block
And the last 3 digits
Correlate with YOM, HP, engine size, and type of transmission
It is all posted in that link
On page 14 of this thread
But
I have never heard or saw
Anything
That stated, it directly correlates with the protecto-plate

I am certain the numbers stamped on my block are on my protecto-plate. I remember thinking how sweet that would be to have if it was a camaro or chevelle. I'll take a look and try to get some legible pics in the next day or two

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by NC_John

I am certain the numbers stamped on my block are on my protecto-plate. I remember thinking how sweet that would be to have if it was a camaro or chevelle. I'll take a look and try to get some legible pics in the next day or two

That would be really cool if they do
I have a truck with the proteco-plate
But not the original engine

[70shortfleet]

Originally Posted by NC_John

I am certain the numbers stamped on my block are on my protecto-plate. I remember thinking how sweet that would be to have if it was a camaro or chevelle. I'll take a look and try to get some legible pics in the next day or two

You correct about the numbers on the front of the block being on the protecto plate. My 1970 cst had a potecto-plate with the numbers stamped on it that matched the numbers on the front of the engine 100% POSITIVE!

[Coley]

Well...this is a big question.
Is any of this based on 'budget restrictions'?....and just what is the ultimate goal?....modern driveability?....reliability?.....power?.....(noting that everyone says yes to all of those...lol)
The LS is a very popular swap with a lot of great results....but by the time you buy the engine, trans, harness...and the seemingly endless amount of stuff needed to install it, hook it up to the heater, linkages, fans, rads, etc, etc....you are into some heavy money unless you happen to own a late model chevy wrecking yard.
Regardless, I would hang onto that original motor and simply either 'shelve it' for now...or rebuild it over the winter.
In the meantime you can always get a crate engine and hit the road very quickly with that installation.

my two bits.
Coley

[weim55]

If you would like to avoid the labor/time and expense of the LS consider a pre-'96 TBI small block. You will gain all of the same reliability of the LS for considerably less time and money. The swap will become much more of a bolt in. Because of the age slightly more difficult to locate a good swap candidate but there are tons of them out there. The downside is you lose the extra power and economy of the LS.

Steve weim55 Colorado

[Malone34]

My two cents is it all depends on your time and budget. If you have the time and money I personally think an ls swap is the way to go. I plan on doing that to mine but like Coley said it's alot of parts and could get pretty expensive quick if you decide to go that route. I know myself even if you have a budget in mind for the swap your going to upgrade things that you didn't plan on in the first place

[dmjlambert]

If you have a new Q-jet how can you be having carb issues? My truck was running like crap until I put a new remanufactured Quadrajet on it, now it runs great. Let's see an up-to-date picture.

[indymachinist]

Early 90s tbi truck engines were horrible. I'd keep a carbed engine over one of those any day.

[Steeveedee]

I'd just rebuild that one. Tons less money than many other options, and you have all the brackets and such in-hand already! I considered going to an LS in my truck, but I'd never get my money back in what's left of my lifetime (I expect maybe 20 more years) with the increased fuel mileage. I'll just rebuild the 402 that's in it now- depending on cylinder condition- it has been bored once, already.

[custom10nut]

While the statement,"Trucks didn't come from the factory with numbers matching components" is true, there is some pride in being able to say that everything in your truck is original. These trucks are getting older and "All Original" trucks are becoming increasingly scarce.
To me, restoring means to refurbish/refinish a vehicle with the original components, or other factory prices from another.
Simply buying new parts of lesser quality is not restoring.
If you own the truck, do what you want to make it the ideal truck, but refrain from using the statement "All Original", like the big auction places like to.

[truckster]

While I agree that "all original" does sound cool, what does it really mean? If you're rebuilding the engine, then the only things that are likely to be original are the block, crank, maybe the heads and rods. What about things like tires, brake pads, glass, etc. My point is that vehicles don't stay all original if they're driven.

Build the truck you want. But as an alternative to the LS swap, you might consider the L31 Vortec. Your brackets and accessories should bolt in place, and you get a roller cam, the best-flowing heads GM put on a Gen I SBC, a rear main seal, and great reliability. The swap is going to be simpler than an LS swap - you'll need an intake (different bolt pattern), mellonized gear for your distributor, and most likely an electric fuel pump.

And you can always stick the original engine in a corner of the garage in case you decide you want to put it back in some day.

[Z10]

Here's my very reliable ZZ4 with FIRST TPI coupled to a 700r4. It now has over 11k miles and gets driven regularly and returns around 17mpg at 70mph.

[special-K]

Actually, the number on the block does match to the vehicle, just not by VIN. The engine in my '72 K2500 Sierra is correct original numbers matching. It's numbers state that it is an engine for a '72 K20/K2500 350 4bbl automatic. That is specifically what my truck is and that engine has matching numbers. It's not the original engine to the truck. It came out of a '72 K/20 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 350 4bbl automatic. All this means is trucks are easier to regain a correct numbers matching truck than the cars. But it still isn't all that easy, once gone, and it does matter to many of us true 67-72 truck lovers.

It is so annoying to keep reading over and over again that people want to plop an LS motor in to have a "reliable" ride. This has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. The Chevy small block has always been regarded as one of the best engines ever! Yep, a better reputation than the big block and tons more proof in the pudding than any LS. They were used in everything and anything. Used in what they came in, they propelled these trucks into the future for you younger folks to buy and drive. I have driven them the entire time and one reason I did is because these trucks are dead reliable like forever. Never been left on the side of the road with something I couldn't fix when something did go up. Yeah, now GM designed the next best thing to propel their stuff as well as others into the future, same as it's predecessor. But, that doesn't render the SBC unreliable or anything less that great!

[Chevyland]

All true
The chevy 350 small block is one of the best designed engines ever
But
There is another difference of the ones from our era
And
The Ls engines of today
About 200k miles
Reliably 100k on ours,before a rebuild
Reliably 300k on today's , before you throw it away

Back then the trucks outlasted the engines
Today the engines outlast the trucks

I myself would not do an Ls swap
Or
Even if I see a Very desirable fully restored truck
That has an Ls swap, I pass over it
I like originality

But
On the other hand
If I was younger and had a budget to have one truck
That I would use all the time
And I found one that wasn't so high optioned from the factory
I see the allure to that engine

[harpo231]

Numbers , Smumbers . The only place to find a complete vin on these is the tag and the spid, otherwise all you can do is "period correct" which I believe is what a lot on here consider original. IMHO the beauty of building one is DO WHAT YOU LIKE unless you're in it to make money.If thats the case, are you really a truck lover ?

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by harpo231

Numbers , Smumbers . The only place to find a complete vin on these is the tag and the spid, otherwise all you can do is "period correct" which I believe is what a lot on here consider original. IMHO the beauty of building one is DO WHAT YOU LIKE unless you're in it to make money.If thats the case, are you really a truck lover ?

Would you take, Say
An original Cheyenne Super or maybe a Highlander
And DO WHAT YOU LIKE with it?
I think a truck lover, might leave it original!
Not to make money
But
Because he loves trucks

However,
It's America
We all can do what we want with our trucks
To each his own

My belief is
Since we are all on this site talking about them
We Are most likely
ALL
Trucks Lovers

[custom10nut]

Originally Posted by harpo231

Numbers , Smumbers . The only place to find a complete vin on these is the tag and the spid, otherwise all you can do is "period correct" which I believe is what a lot on here consider original. IMHO the beauty of building one is DO WHAT YOU LIKE unless you're in it to make money.If thats the case, are you really a truck lover ?

Agreed. I think if you were to look into the pristine "numbers matching" muscle cars that you see on the big auction shows, how many have original (or NOS) sheet metal and interiors? As I've said before, I restore my original parts, or if I add anything, it's factory original, period pieces. My truck is no show truck but all the sheet metal is factory, as well as my drivetrain. And most importantly, it's all mine.

[67 chevelle]

If your 350 runs good and its original stick with it , you want some more power , throw some vortec heads and a mild cam on , should give you about 70 horse , will increase your compression ratio at the same time from around 8 to around 10 .