LS engine swap info

[Thealien]

A lot of questions have been asked lately about LS engine swaps. I have done a bunch of research and wanted to share what I have found. I hope it helps some of you out. Spend some time clicking the links, I have put a lot of the time into finding this stuff.

LT1swap lots of good wiring harness info with pictures and DIY tips

LT1swap
Lots of good LS information, what are the engine differences etc

LSprimer

LSprimer part II
A thread with LS engine swap questions and answers

Questions and answers
Another sites questions and answers

ANOTHER Question and answer thread
I will add to this post and thread as I go through my information

[Thealien]

Here are a few Engine sources to look at. I only have experience with Spaulding Automotive. I will elaborate more when I finally start my build thread.

SPAULDING AUTO
Here is a you tube link from one of their ads

Spaulding auto ready to run package
A couple people have bought from these guys

Schram auto
Pacific fab also does pull out and ready to run packages they also have a pretty cool 4X4 Ls crossmember I'll talk about later

Pacific Fab
Another vender that seems to have happy customers?

TNScrambler
And last but not least car part.com

Car Part.com
These are all just a reference, buyer beware and I am not recomending anyone at the moment. Ask questions, try local and good luck there are deal out there

[Thealien]

Motor mounts and adapter plates

A couple of drawings of adapter plates, you would need two of either plate. This one would move the engine forward some.

They are showing the wrong hole countersunk. The hole that should be countersunk is the one between the two 1.75 inch measurements. The point goes forward and to the top. You have to countersink the hole that ends up behind the motor mount. The two plates will be mirror images with the countersunk hole on opposite sides of the plate. This is more like most of the aftermarket adapter plates. Most of them are 5/16-3/8 while these are 1/4 inch. The slight thickness differences could change engine height. I haven't read much about anyone having any issues with any of the different thickness adapter plates.

Scroll down

S&P
multi position adapter plates

MULTI POSITION
Moroso scroll down

MOROSO
Year one

YEAR ONE
Car Shop

Car Shop
And advance adapters. They are the only one that doesn't use the bottom bolt hole to position the motor mount? Hmmm

Advance Adapters

Now the drawings say 1/4 inch and all the rest are 5/16-3/8 which in my humble opinion will slightly change where your engine sits, higher/lower?

There are some issues with crossmembers on the 4X4 trucks causing motor mount and crossmember problems. My truck is stock height so these won't work for me but 4" plus lifted vehicles can use these from Pacific Fabrication
Pacific Fabrication

[Thealien]

Wiring, harnesses, and connectors

If you want to modify your own harness there is some good info at LT1swap in the first post. Here is a list of links to places that either modify your own harness or build complete new ones. After contacting a bunch of them and having some emails go unanswered I am having my harness done by a board member


68 short step Check him out for your project

Jims performance is very knowleagable and was the most reasonable. You must call him.

Jims

SPEARTECH

Wait4me
Current performance also has fuse/relay panels connectors and will either rework your harness or build new.

Current performance

LS1wiring harness

Nelson performance
In addition to currant performance here are a few places to get fuse/relay panels, connectors, pins and bulkhead connectors

Pictures of GM connectors

Bulkhead connector

Terminals wire connectors
If you know the connector part number and pin part number this is the place

MOUSER

Fuse blocks

Fuse block wiring kits
Painless circuit boss

Painless

Autotrend fuse relay
The brake switch you will need if you want cruise control

AC Delco D850A

[Thealien]

Transmission info and adapters

If my transmission ever needs a rebuild I am going with these guys. Check out all the pictures and attention to detail!

Finish Line Transmission build thread

Not a lot of info to post here. The harnesses can be changed from either a 4l60 to a 4l80 and the other way around. It is easier to alter a 4l80 harness for the 4l60 but both are doable. The 4l80 has 2 VSS sensors and the 4l60 has one. If you have a 4l60 harness you have to add the other VSS for the 4l80. If you have a 4l80 harness you remove the extra VSS for the 4l60. It matters which one but if you are doing your own harness you will have the pin outs. If you are having it done they should know what to do if not find someone else. In the big round connector there are a couple of wires moved between the 4l60 and 4l80.

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCES IN THE TRANSMISSION WIRING

There is a big switch on the side of the transmission. It is your park/neutral safety switch. Many people remove this and that can be done. The PCM does use that information for more than the safety and gear indicator but from what I have read it is not necessary. Here is what I have found

The PCM uses the signal to adjust idle speed based on whether the car is in gear or in park/neutral.
As soon as the PCM "sees" the car go in gear it drops the idle speed by around 100 rpm to prevent jerking going into gear, and to prevent tugging at the torque converter.

It can be considered as optional on a swap. As long as the line is left open the PCM will always assume the car is in gear, and will drop to lower rpm when the engine is started. This also causes a much quicker rpm rampdown on a cold engine start.

Some aftermarket wiring harness companies that have no clue as to how the PCM works will wire this line to ground which makes the PCM think the car is always in park or neutral. On some applications this allows some diagnostic tests to be skipped (EGR, purge, etc.) so that these items can be left off without setting a code. The problem is that the idle is too fast then, and the car wantts to pull a little when sitting still, as well as other issues.


I have a 4X4 and am keeping the NP205 transfer case in the factory location using the 4L60 transmission. Here are the aprts I needed to make this work.


4L60 to 205


Here are some of those parts being installed(bottom first page)


And here is another thread showing more of that installation

The transmission must be disassembled to install the output shaft. I did not want to move my transfer case shifter or change my almost new driveshafts so this is the route I took. There are a couple of passenger side drop transfer cases that will mate to the 4L60 but I do not have the information on what works and what doesn't. If somebody has information on what works and how they handled the shifter etc I will be happy to include it. With all that being said I may still have driveshaft/transmission pan clearance issues due to being stock height. I will update with pictures when I know.

I am also going to try to modify my stock shifter linkage to work. Some say I won't be able to shift into first? Again I will update when I know.

Here are a couple of shifter linkage solutions


Lokar shift linkage


Lokar cable shift linkage

If you need to run a mechanical speedo with a 4L60 this is one solution


Shiftworks

The fittings on these 4l60/80 transmissions are not NPT but National pipe straight thread

And use fittings like these
Corvette servo information courtesy of Glock35ipsc

Corvette servo

[Thealien]

Cooling

Here is some reading on cooling that will keep you busy. I will add more later I am tired of typing.

More than you thought there was to cooling

A couple of thread on an ebay aluminum radiator. If you conatct him he will add steam ports, change inlet and outlet sizes, you can even get them with fans!

Ebay Radiator

Ebay Radiator 2

His Ebay store

A fan install thread

Frugal fan install

Some hose adapters and steam port Ts Hose reducers etc. Look around this site a bit

JTR

[Thealien]

Links to build threads

Calling all LS1 owners

Glocks build

LS1 into a 73

Ackattacks

69 Burb 5.3

Incredible HULK

Sicmaro

72BlazerCST

68 Short Step

Shifty

Killers 5.3

72 Shortbed 6.0

Super 73s 63 Chevy C10

68fleetsideC20 budget build

37 Ford lots of great fabrication and ideas!

[Thealien]

AC compressor relocation options

THE EXPENSIVE ONES BUT???

A LESS EXOENSIVE SOLUTION BUT USES AN EXPENSIVE SANDEN COMPRESSOR

AND HERE IS THE THIRD OPTION
AC Compressor manifolds courtesy of Big Port Jimmy 6 search for AA2209

Docsblocks compressor manifolds

Cable X box for running a mechanical speedo from a VSS

Cable X

Power steering pump info

Use your old fitting on your new pump

Link to torque values

Scroll to the last 2 posts

Aeroforce technologies. Cool little gauge that plugs into your OBDII port and has lots of programable features!

AEROFORCE
Some interesting LS engine covers

ENGINE COVERS
LQ4/LQ9 engine mechanical service manual thanks to 1972 supercheyenne

LQ4/LQ9 engine service manual

[Thealien]

Fuel system (any chance a mod can move this post up?)
The LS engines require 58-60 pounds pressure at the fuel rails. Older fuel rails had a regulator on the rails and there is a feed and return on these engines. On the later fuel rails there is only the feed on the rail. You need to have something like the filter regulator shown below to return the excess fuel to the tank. Some of the tanks these engines came with did this internally in the tank.

Corvette filter/regulator

I don't know how long this will last but a decent deal on the regulator/filter and he will take offers for less I am told

GF822
Lots of people use Walbro external pumps

Walbro external pumps and fittings
Dorman quick disconnects for GM fuel line

Dorman 5/16ths

Dorman 3/8ths
Russel AN quick disconnects

Russel 3/8ths

Russel 5/16ths
Don't have a way to make the GM quick disconnect? Try one of these

Dorman flare to quick disconnect
Fuel pump tank adapter

F-body LS1 fuel pump adapter kit
here is an installation tutorial of the adapter kit

Tutorial of adapter kit
Another gas tank modification

EFI pump tank mod
Dual tank info

Compliments of Glock35ipsc

[1sik7t2]

Hey thealien, thanks for helping out here....i'm havin a problem with my lq4 motor it has the single fuel rail system u speak of (2005) from a gmc savannah went to napa, thought the oem fuel filter would have a return, but it's just 1 in 1out so now i'm so confused...it wont start unless you are spraying starter fluid in the intake -----& i dont have the mass air hooked up any help would be very appreciated thx dave





=Thealien;3686299]Fuel system (any chance a mod can move this post up?)
The LS engines require 58-60 pounds pressure at the fuel rails. Older fuel rails had a regulator on the rails and there is a feed and return on these engines. On the later fuel rails there is only the feed on the rail. You need to have something like the filter regulator shown below to return the excess fuel to the tank. Some of the tanks these engines came with did this internally in the tank.

Corvette filter/regulator

I don't know how long this will last but a decent deal on the regulator/filter and he will take offers for less I am told

GF822
Lots of people use Walbro external pumps

Walbro external pumps and fittings
Dorman quick disconnects for GM fuel line

Dorman 5/16ths

Dorman 3/8ths
Russel AN quick disconnects

Russel 3/8ths

Russel 5/16ths
Don't have a way to make the GM quick disconnect? Try one of these

Dorman flare to quick disconnect
Fuel pump tank adapter

F-body LS1 fuel pump adapter kit
here is an installation tutorial of the adapter kit

Tutorial of adapter kit
Another gas tank modification

EFI pump tank mod
Dual tank info

Compliments of Glock35ipsc[/QUOTE]

[Ticker]

This will be great when it's all sorted out. Hopefully it'll be a sticky!

Thanks for doing it, and it makes a difference - that's why you try

[Clyde65]

Sorry, I thought you were brain fried like me, Youre not, you just have a plan.

I think this is a FANTASTIC idea, and I applaud you taking the time to do it! I think others that see how easy this swap is will jump right in when they have information like you are putting together, Thanks Thealien!

[Thealien]

Random parts/links

Brass fitting and adapters
LS engine pulling fixture

Happy Hooker
The last flaring tool you will ever need. Does the GM quick disconnects also and this is the best price I could find!
Mastercool universal flaring
GM Gen III & IV bolt and sensor list

Bolts and Sensors
There are not a lot of vacuum options on an LS manifold

Vacuum manifold
Some Vehicle Speed Sensor options VSS

VSS OPTIONS

BRAKE BOOSTER NIPPLE FOUND HERE

[Clyde65]

You are doing a great job, thank you for doing this, if I would have had that happen to me, my PC would be in the middle of the street and I with a sledge hammer hoisted high over my head ready for the explosion of PC parts all over the neighborhood, but that is me.

May I add this for cooling, I know it is from the F word car forum but this is what I am doing and it really cools my truck fast.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/forums/coo...tric-fans.html

[Super73]

If there are any direct questions that i can help with, please let me know. I've been dealing with LS1's since 2001 and as well as being a moderator here, I am a moderator on LS1tech.com and Performancetrucks.net

[Captainfab]

Thank you for putting this together. At some point in time I'm sure I will be doing a LS swap, so this will come in handy.

On the motor mount adapter plates there are two drawings, is one of each needed for a swap?

One other source that I know of for wiring, connectors and a lot of other EFI related components is this one.

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/default.aspx

He does some really cool things like the 24X coil per plug conversion for older EFI engines. Just lots of cool stuff that he does.

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by Captainfab

Thank you for putting this together. At some point in time I'm sure I will be doing a LS swap, so this will come in handy.

On the motor mount adapter plates there are two drawings, is one of each needed for a swap? No they are just a couple of options. As mentioned below and I will add to the description one puts the engine in the stock location (I believe the longer one) and the other would move the engine forward slightly. Most adapter plates look like the second picture if you click on some of the links

One other source that I know of for wiring, connectors and a lot of other EFI related components is this one. Already have that one, click terminals wire connectors in the wiring link

http://www.eficonnection.com/eficonnection/default.aspx

He does some really cool things like the 24X coil per plug conversion for older EFI engines. Just lots of cool stuff that he does.

Answers in red

[Thealien]

Originally Posted by Super73

If there are any direct questions that i can help with, please let me know. I've been dealing with LS1's since 2001 and as well as being a moderator here, I am a moderator on LS1tech.com and Performancetrucks.net

Yeah can you help me move or add a couple of posts so all the information stays in the first posts? If not can you have a mod or admin that can contact me?

If you see any inaccuracies or something that should be added I would be happy to change or add as needed

Added your build to the list

[1sik7t2]

yes yes i can use your help big time i'm reachin out to anybody i'm puttin n a 6.0 2005 lq4 in my 72 burb has the single in fuel rail no return i'm told on here somewhere i need a fuel filter with a return built in so hit napa and the oem is only 1 in 1 out,,,? it won't start unless sprayin starter fluid in the intake i dint have the throttle canle of mass air flow hooked up yet either...just tryin to start it first....do i need the others first??? the smell of gas in my garage is soooo overpowering like its tryin to run on only gas....Please help thX Dave

Originally Posted by Super73

If there are any direct questions that i can help with, please let me know. I've been dealing with LS1's since 2001 and as well as being a moderator here, I am a moderator on LS1tech.com and Performancetrucks.net

[kSStamp0182]

Originally Posted by 1sik7t2

yes yes i can use your help big time i'm reachin out to anybody i'm puttin n a 6.0 2005 lq4 in my 72 burb has the single in fuel rail no return i'm told on here somewhere i need a fuel filter with a return built in so hit napa and the oem is only 1 in 1 out,,,? it won't start unless sprayin starter fluid in the intake i dint have the throttle canle of mass air flow hooked up yet either...just tryin to start it first....do i need the others first??? the smell of gas in my garage is soooo overpowering like its tryin to run on only gas....Please help thX Dave

the part you are looking for is GM part # 19239926

[1sik7t2]

still confused! what part number is this for? fuel filter? & y is the stock filter only no return, and 1 more do i need return....im not really an engine guy so help explain please something doesnt make sense in my pee brain

[sdwolff98]

That part number I am guessing is the filter with return line attachment to work with your engine. The return line routes fuel back to the gas tank when the fuel injection rails have reached full pressure. Helps to save the fuel pump from too high of pressures. And other things as well. Not a boned up on these items yet working on it quickly tho since I will be buying my new gas tank this fall and installing it after the bed is completely repainted with new oak wood. late 2004 and early 2005 they simplfied the fuel rails due one part problems with the regulators plus high pressure requirements. So what you probably grabbed a hold of was one of the early 2004 models that still had the rail regulator in place rather than the newer filter regulator assembly.

Sean

[Super73]

For the adapter plates, 2 of one picture will work... They both use one of the existing SBC bolt holes. If memory serves me, the lower one keeps the motor in the factory location where the upper one moves the motor slightly.

[Thealien]

Correct I will add that to the description

Originally Posted by Super73

For the adapter plates, 2 of one picture will work... They both use one of the existing SBC bolt holes. If memory serves me, the lower one keeps the motor in the factory location where the upper one moves the motor slightly.

[jgh64pkup]

thanks for this thread