Radiator trivia

[Mrturner1]

On an aluminum radiator, is it actually better to only have 1 or 2 rows as opposed to a big 3 or 4 row brass OR aluminum radiator? I was talking to a guy about radiators because I am in need now that my factory 3 row brass one has a leak near the inlet snout, as well as 20 years of rust and other buildup on the coolant tubes. This guy told me that I should get a 2 row aluminum radiator instead of a 3 or 4 row aluminum one that I was about to buy, and his reasoning was that with less rows, the aluminum could dissipate heat better than a bigger radiator could. Is this true? I'm looking at Champion Radiators because everyone on this website who has one loves it. The Champion website has a 2 row aluminum that is said to cool up to 500hp, and they offer a 4 row aluminum that cools up to 1000hp. That is the opposite of what this guy told me, but I usually get a lot of good tips from him bein's he's been drag racing and building cars for a long time.

Even if a 3 or 4 row is overkill for my truck, I'd like to know the answer to the question I'm always learning and appreciate all you guys for helpin along the way

Matt

[In The Ten Ring]

You aren't alone: I am in the middle of radiator decisions myself right now!

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

You aren't alone: I am in the middle of radiator decisions myself right now!

The thought of a 4 row aluminum sure makes me feel like I could drive my truck long distances or in traffic more confidently, guess we'll see what better soon enough

[dazza]

I would probably go with what Champions website says, mainly because they're saying a 500hp difference, which is huge. If it were more like 100, I may think about it a bit more, however, the three or four row has more metal, which to me means more mass to dissipate heat.

[Aruba1]

When my old copper radiator on my LS based engine failed, I started looking for an aluminum radiator. I quickly learned that the amount of rows was no longer important, it's the size of the rows that needs to be considered when looking for better heat dissipation. I ended buying a Griffin Dominator Series Radiator 8-00013-LS that came with two rows (1-1/4" thick each) with a total of 3" depth. I am happy with it. I went with this setup to get both inlet and outlet on passenger side as some people claims it works better on the LS.

Ohhh.... radiator shopping is a nightmare if you get tangled in amount of rows. If that is important to you, check the depth on some of these radiator as some of the 4 rows radiators are only 2 to 3" deep so you will get something like a 1/2" wide rows that won't be very effective for dissipating heat (IMO).

[Stocker]

Previously posted, dunno if this helps or not...

[In The Ten Ring]

Very interesting! Thanks.

[Mrturner1]

So the best thing to do, is get a 2 row with big tubes then? Or are there 3 or 4 row radiators also with big tubes that work just as good and cool higher HP engines?

[In The Ten Ring]

I've put a lot of thought into this and read every post I could, it seems that there are multiple right answers, as there often is.

The 4 row radiator I found is brass and copper and I am going to go with it if I can get it to fit.

When I have more money, I will get my original 2 row factory radiator recored.

There seem to be good, aluminum radiators to buy such as the ones like Champion and KKS Motorsports. Forum members have vouched for both of those.

[PanelDeland]

The 4 row is hat I replaced my 2 row with. The mounts are different but available form any of the BB vendors. It was about $20 for the mounts (with rubbers) and $200 for the 4 row from O'Rielly's. I had to go to the warehouse to pick up the radiator (30-45min drive) or wait 2 days. I spent more time doing that than installing the mounts and radiator. I don' feel that the aluminum is as solid as the Brass and copper for a street truck but the manufacturers seem to disagree (or else are saving money) since new vehicles always have aluminum. That said, if I were building a high HP engine I would go with an aluminum one. For up to about 450 HP in a street truck, brass and copper gets my vote every time. When I was radiator shopping, I checked into a recore for my 2 row. I could buy three 4 rows and all new hoses and belts with money left over for lunch for the $700 I was quoted so price was a factor.

[In The Ten Ring]

The local radiator shop guy has been in business at least 20 years and I think he took over from his father. He told me the other day that aluminum was thin and not as strong as copper/brass. He also told me newly made copper brass was thinner than it used to be. He added that most copper/brass may not be virgin, it may be recycled, although he is not sure how that might affect things.

He also told me the aluminum/plastic radiators were only good for about 5 years and tended to lose it where the plastic met the aluminum.

He said "your old radiator there, although it is half rotten, is 60 to 70 years old and worked just fine. Granted it will have a lot of leaks but things were built to last back then."

$700.00? (gulp). When I get some money in I'll get my recored and just bite the bullet when I get the bill.

[Mrturner1]

I don't even care about price, what I'm wondering is what is the best for cooling high performance motors with big cams, lots of initial timing, and lots of compression. If you were wanting to build a HOTT motor, let's say 600hp, and it was high compression and had a long cam somewheres in the 30's or 40's for duration @.050", with tons of initial timing, and you wanted to run it in a cruise or a HotRod power tour confidently, what's the best route for cooling. I already have a real nice dual electric fan setup pulling 3000cfm, so I just need the ultimate radiator, and want to know what makes for the best cooling

[In The Ten Ring]

Why didn't you type that to start with? I thought you were like me and just wanted to get the original engine running but with a more effective radiator.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by In The Ten Ring

Why didn't you type that to start with? I thought you were like me and just wanted to get the original engine running but with a more effective radiator.

I always assume people know my build because I ask so many questions lol

[In The Ten Ring]

Never make assumptions! Do you have any idea how many members are on this forum? *Have a look through the "Member's List" sometime.

In fact, I had never noticed your name before.

[Mrturner1]

So according to the post above about the crappy eBay radiators the bigger 3-4 row ones aren't actually better than a smaller 2 row because of tube diameter. But is there a company that makes aluminum radiators with big tubes AND 3-4 rows? I don't have an overheating issue, but even since I rebuilt my topend with bigger heads/cam/carb and bumped compression up the temperature certainly isn't stable, not enough to trust at cruises or shows anyway. I'd like to just stop looking at the temp gauge like it was my rear view mirror, would make driving it a whole lot more enjoyable.

[Grumpy old man]

Check out water wetter claims 30% cooler running Temps , 1 of our kids raced professional Supercross for many years all over the world he had engine ice (the dirt bike version) as one of his many sponsors and the stuff really worked in his highly modified 450 pro class bikes .

[Aruba1]

Chances are very few places will build a radiator that is twice the normal depth to have it sit on the shelf for a long time. Mine had 2 rows of 1-1/4" each and the depth is 3". So if you want twice that it will be 6". I can inquire with a few friends that build antique cars/trucks with 1000-1500 HP engines if you are serious and see who they use.

[cleszkie]

I bought a BeCool direct replacement aluminum 2-row radiator for my built 400SBC. I run dual electric puller fan/shroud set-up. All I can tell you is that this radiator cools WAY better than the copper and brass 4-core unit I had in there. It was a bit spendy, but well worth the cost.

[Mrturner1]

Originally Posted by Aruba1

Chances are very few places will build a radiator that is twice the normal depth to have it sit on the shelf for a long time. Mine had 2 rows of 1-1/4" each and the depth is 3". So if you want twice that it will be 6". I can inquire with a few friends that build antique cars/trucks with 1000-1500 HP engines if you are serious and see who they use.

That would be great!

[Marshy]

You're not comparing apples to apples here, more like apples to cantaloupe when talking brass compared to aluminum. Aluminum has a higher thermal conductivity than brass, almost twice as high but, its not as tough as brass so they will have to use slightly thicker tubes in the manufacturing of the radiator. The thickness may be a moot point but as previously pointed out, surface area is a huge deal. Combine the superior thermal properties of aluminum with a wider tube it no wonder a 2 core aluminum radiator will out perform a 3 or 4 core brass radiator.

[GRX]

This could get very complex when comparing thermal conductivity. Doubt radiators are made of pure aluminum. Likely one of many alloys available. Same goes for types of brass. Then we have solder connections to consider. Which have extremely poor thermal conductivity. Metallurgy is an interesting science. A very small amount of alloying metal can radically change overall properties. Often with results you would not expect.

[Marshy]

Very true but its generally accurate to say that aluminum and it's alloys have a higher thermal conductivity as compared to copper brass alloys.

[Grumpy old man]

How did we ever survive running big cams and carbs 40 years ago before the new generation of super mechanics/super radiators arrived ? There weren't any electric dual fan auto aluminum radiators available, NO computers
and we were still running big inch/big cam/big carbed engines on the street ... Ya'll are lost start looking back to what we used in the day .Just because it's new and shiny and delivered to your door by UPS doesn't mean it works better ! We could break down on the side of the road and get going with basic hand tools ,You have to call your computer guy ???

[Mrturner1]

So what do the higher hp engines use then? Just a big tube 2 row aluminum?