Remote solenoid install by pictures

[landarts]

I am currently restoring my 72 1/2 ton LWB Cheyenne. When I purchased the truck from P.O. it had headers installed on the SB 350. Every once in a while a would make quick stops to run into the store or whatever and come right back within a few minutes to jump in the truck and go-- and that was a no go, not even a click from the starter. The heat from the headers would get the starter so hot that it would not start until it cooled down or I dumped water on it. So the problem starting getting worse and more frequent so I decided to get a new starter , heat shield , and a remote solenoid kit from MAD electric. The pictures will show what it took to get'r done. I have to say it was not as hard as I thought it would be to do the install and the truck starts great without the heat problems.

[landarts]

Picts part 2

[landarts]

Picts part 3

[landarts]

One more quick thought on the whole process I did above. When I removed the old starter it had two shims on the top side of the starter. So when I installed the new starter I re-installed those two shims. That caused the starter to make terrible noises. So I took the starter in and out at least four times shimming in different locations and quantities until it sounded right. Is there a right way to go about the shimming process of a starter?

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by landarts

One more quick thought on the whole process I did above. When I removed the old starter it had two shims on the top side of the starter. So when I installed the new starter I re-installed those two shims. That caused the starter to make terrible noises. So I took the starter in and out at least four times shimming in different locations and quantities until it sounded right. Is there a right way to go about the shimming process of a starter?

When you get a new starter, it should come with a little bar that helps you shim it correctly.

[landarts]

I used the shims that came with starter , and the shims from the old starter.

[mclairmo]

Originally Posted by landarts

I used the shims that came with starter , and the shims from the old starter.

Usually, I just use a large paper clip and measure the gap between the starter pinion gear (fully extended) and the flexplate/flywheel teeth to makes sure the paper clip slides with a slight drag between the bottom of one starter pinion tooth and one valley (between teeth) in the flexplate/flywheel teeth. Too much clearance will give you noise like a grinding and eventually round off the teeth, too little clearance may prevent pinion engagement and cause a chattering noise.

[Sinister]

Cool write up. I think a remote solenoid is a necessity when running headers. I did mine with a F@rd solenoid.

[Sinister]

Here's a diagram if your running a permanent magnet mini starter.

[ChevLoRay]

When I changed my carb/intake from stock intake w/adapter to an Edelbrock Q-Jet (instead of the 1405 manual choke Edelbrock) and a Performer intake, I had a heat-soak problem with my starter. You can blame it on the headers if you like but a lean mixture will make for a hotter combustion process.

All I did was add the heat shield to the starter solenoid and the heat soak issue never recurred again. Did I consider going to a Ford starter solenoid? Sure, but not when the heat shield did the trick w/o any wiring changes.

Glad you're happy with what you did. The writeup is good info for anyone who has this problem and takes the same avenue you did.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Ive hooked a lot of Ford type selenoids up as a relay but just use it for the wire comeing from the switch. What's the use running the bat cable through it? You won't gain any thing.

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

Ive hooked a lot of Ford type selenoids up as a relay but just use it for the wire comeing from the switch. What's the use running the bat cable through it? You won't gain any thing.

No idea. When I was researching to do this it seemed all the diagrams online were like that. When I did my first one using a Summit kit, I think it was like that as well.

[cokeb]

Andy 4639, in that picture the solenoid is not switching the + battery cable, only switching the small wire that is being used to energize the G.M. solenoid, the + battery cable going to the starter is always hot. This diagram provides a full 12 volts to the G.M. solenoid without the voltage drop that will be seen through the bulk head connector to the ignition switch and back out to the solenoid. Clear as mud I hope?

Craig

[Andy4639]

Sorry but it's not. The 2 big terminals have nothing to do with the two small terminals as far as what passes through them they are seperate circuits. If the battery cable is on one terminal and the other side is a on/off how can this be a full circuit?
The battery cables should hook to each big terminal. One in from battery then one out to starter. Then one small ignition wire to solenoid from key then out to ground. This will give you straight battery to starter the key switch has nothing to do with it. It's just to turn the slonoid on/off. I have been hooking solenoids up for years. I have never seen this before.

[VetteVet]

Originally Posted by Andy4639

Sorry but it's not. The 2 big terminals have nothing to do with the two small terminals as far as what passes through them they are seperate circuits. If the battery cable is on one terminal and the other side is a on/off how can this be a full circuit?
The battery cables should hook to each big terminal. One in from battery then one out to starter. Then one small ignition wire to solenoid from key then out to ground. This will give you straight battery to starter the key switch has nothing to do with it. It's just to turn the slonoid on/off. I have been hooking solenoids up for years. I have never seen this before.

You need to look closer at the diagram. The positive battery cable A will connect to the other side B when the wire from the ignition switch energizes the small terminal on the solenoid. This allows voltage to go from the battery cable to the S terminal on the starter solenoid via the small wire on B.
The other small terminal on the remote solenoid has to be grounded to complete the circuit on the relay coil. You are correct that the two circuits are separate.

[Andy4639]

This is what I'm try to find out. Why have the load on one side and a smaller amp wire on the other.
VetteVet,
I understand the principle of the selonoid just not understanding the wiring here. Why are you using smaller wire for the outlet side? I'm not wanting to be a pain, just wanting to understand.
I have wired all kinds of selonoids in golf carts up to 144 volts and have never seen one wired like this. I have wired them in series and Parallel and never seen this done.

Here is a solenoid I hooked to 72 volts. The two bigger cables are seeing 72 volts at 150 amps, the smaller two wires are the activating @48 volts and about 40 amps.






Seems to me you would run the battery cable off the b side to starter then a small jumper to the s terminal. This way the amp draw is all the same. the remote selonoid is just 12 volts with very low amp draw. I'm assuming the remote selonoid is grounded by the frame since no wire is shown. I'm truley not trying to be a pain. I just want to understand this wiring.
This is how I would have done it. This way you get full amperage and it's cut off when not being used. Can you tell I'm bored @ work.

[VetteVet]

Well Andy technically speaking the large cable is not the load, it is the power supply.
This diagram is just another way to get the positive battery power to the starter solenoid to the S terminal without the voltage drop that WrenchbenderRet explained earlier.
Your diagram works just as well and is actually the more common way of doing it.
Here is another version for you to chew on. It uses the Bosch relay and you won't have to pay for a solenoid.

[landarts]

In my installation of the kit I removed the s-terminal wire from the old starter solenoid and placed it on the s-terminal of the remote solenoid.
Then removed the r- terminal wire from old solenoid and placed on remote solenoid r- terminal.
Then installed buss bar across the s-terminal and positive terminal on starter. Also installed battery cable on positive post of starter....there are no other wires hooked to the starter now except the positive battery cable which goes up to the right side of the remote solenoid.
Then hook the positive battery cable to positive side of battery and the left post on the remote solenoid.
Then extended the wires that were hooked to the positive battery post over to the left side post of the remote solenoid.

Jim

[MickMc]

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Well Andy technically speaking the large cable is not the load, it is the power supply.
This diagram is just another way to get the positive battery power to the starter solenoid to the S terminal without the voltage drop that WrenchbenderRet explained earlier.
Your diagram works just as well and is actually the more common way of doing it.
Here is another version for you to chew on. It uses the Bosch relay and you won't have to pay for a solenoid.

Great idea, saved to my files.

But one of the greatest things about Mark at Mad Enterprises is that the cable to the starter is dead all the time except starting. So if that cable touches a hot header or a crash happens no shorting out, the cable is electrically dead while the motor is running.

I think I have purchased five or six kits from Mark, he is wealth of knowledge and is more than happy to talk to you and help out. If you call be prepared, and the phone rings busy he's on the phone and he's the only one who answers the phone and if he answers the phone when you call you're going to talk for at least thirty minutes.

Mick

[Andy4639]

I agree I talked for about a hour with him about a year ago on the voltage regulator setup I have.

[landarts]

I had asked the question earlier in the thread about the proper way to shim a starter . I did receive two shims in the box with the new starter and also had the 2 shims left over from the old starter. Is the shimming process done by how it sounds or is there a different method?

[Andy4639]

VetteVet,
Now that is interesting using the relay. That should help on the load to using a relay no voltage drop with that setup either.

[67chevemall]

An easier fix to the problem is a cvr mini starter.
Mine never started hot, then I put the cvr in 7 years ago and have had zero problems.

CRV 5323OS





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[Baketown Scotty]

I bought the remote solenoid kit from Summit and wired it just like the sketch in post #7 above, I think. I connected the positive battery cable to the battery first and when I went to connect the negative cable to the battery the starter began turning over. The key switch was in the off position. Any thoughts on where I went wrong? This all began when I was unable to start the 1969 Blazer, turn the key and got nothing. I assumed the headers got the solenoid too hot.

[kwmech]

Double check the location of the wires again. Nothing should be on the terminal of the main starter cable but the starter cable itself