55.2-59 Welding WTH

[Phungki]

If you haven’t caught on yet with all the questions I ask, this is all new to me. I’ve done minor car repair things over the years. Replaced starters, alternators, mufflers,plugs, wires and replaced a few leaky valve cover gaskets. Really minor stuff. I knew when I got into this that I would be over my head but learn a lot and have some fun. So far both have been true lol. It’s kind of a bucket list thing for me so I’m good with it. So on to the reason for this post

I knew I was going to get to weld some stuff. Never done it before. Never had the need. My prior “hobby” has been rehabbing the homes I live in. Not much welding needed. So as I’m working the frame of my truck my dad is welding something on one of his mowers. I asked to try it myself just so I could get an idea before I start with some patch panels in the near future. WTH, I couldn’t see a f’n thing. My dads helmet darkens when you start welding which I thought was kind of cool. But then all I saw was a bright light. Couldn’t see the two pieces of scrap metal I was supposed to be welding together. Couldn’t see the “puddle” he was talking about. Nothing, just a bright spot. He said, “you will get use to it, you will learn to see it”. I don’t know about that. Slightly discouraged. He did say it was his cheap welder. He didn’t have any gas for his other one. Whatever that means. I asked what kind of welding this was and he said mig.
Does this sound right? I just have to learn to see? Are there helmets that protect your eyes but don’t make it so damn dark? How can you be precise?

[mongocanfly]

Most auto darkening hoods have darkening adjustment setting on lense... what's it set on?...should be inside the helmet on the lense holder...
If you dont know how to weld...thin panel replacement is not really a good place to start
Also how good are your eyes....I cant weld a thing without my cheater glasses now..
And the other way also...back when my eyes were good I borrowed a helmet...couldn't see a dang thing...found out it had a cheater lense in it..took that out so I could see...

[mr48chev]

^^^^^^ He knows. A plain helmet with a big screen with the right shade of lens might be a lot more comfortable to start with.

I've got a really high quality auto darken helmet that sells for over 300 that I use that I really like but I have it adjusted to a lighter shade as Mongo can fly suggested. I think I have about 5 helmets out in the garage including that one. One old small lens welding helmet that I bought way back in the 80's, a large lens maybe a HF auto dark and a Coastal farm and ranch auto dark. I don't like the Coastal one at all.

Weld lots of scrap pieces together and maybe make some things like a plant stand for your wife or mom. One of the first things kids in the local high school ag shop welding class made were plant stands and I have one out front that I bought from a friend's son about 35 years ago. She had too many sons in welding class that year and the other one Talked her into buying his first.

My son learned on my big old Forney stick welder with his buddy teaching him after work. The buddy is a pipe line welder in Alaska now and my son has evolved into a good welder who has since taught some of his workers to weld.

That old Forney welder is one of the most forgiving pieces of equipment you will find as it just doesn't act up on you. I've got a mig and a tig now too but that one still gets used for the heavy duty stuff.

Keep welding on scrap pieces or little projects until you get comfortable enough and your welds hold together well enough along with looking good enough that you are comfortable welding on the truck.

For years all I had was a little cheapie 110 welder with one heat range that took special self starting rods. (Monkey Wards unit) I'd stick pieces together with it exactly how I wanted them and then carry them to my buddy to have him weld them. It cost me a lot of Budweiser for the welding but he did a great job. If you can tack things together it usually isn't hard to find someone who can weld it .

[Phungki]

I don’t know if the darkening aspect of the helmet is adjustable. I’ll give it a look today. I realize now that learning to weld in truck panels isn’t the best thing. I seriously didn’t realize how hard it was to see. I was very disappointed and immediately started wondering how I’m going to do the patch panels without throwing money at it which wasn’t the plan. I want the satisfaction of doing it myself. Hopefully finding the right helmet for me us the ticket.
I do wear the cheater glasses. We took out the lense he had in and I used my glasses. Didn’t help me unfortunately. It’s hard to believe they haven’t developed something that blocks what’s harmful without making it so darn dark. I’ll keep trying. I just had to come on here and see what suggestions you guys have. My step dad is a very knowledgeable guy but he needs work on his instructions.
Anyone ever get taught to swim by being thrown in a lake? That’s kind of how he teaches lol. Glad I learned to swim before my mom married him lol.
Thanks guys, have a good one

[dsraven]

darken down the lense or get a cheap helmet with the right lense shade for the type of welding you're doing. if it was too bright to see then the darkening knob maybe got bumped and it was actually too bright to see. if you weld something and then have spots in your eyes then it is too bright and needs to be a darker shade.
grab some scrap steel, about 1/4" thick, and clean it up with a grinder so you have clean steel on both sides and ends etc. clean is also a good starting point because dirty spatters etc due to contaminants being brought into the weld. play with welding the thick stuff until you figure out the puddle and how to control that. then graduate to the thinner stuff until you get down to the body panel thickness. wear the right clothing as well, it is like being under a sun lamp and you don't want the burn. also, wear gloves and long sleeves, long pants, boots with the pants tucked over them so slag and sparks don't fall into the open boot tops. trust me, it hurts when slag burns into your foot....
good luck, there are lots of youtube videos on welding as well. remember, thin steel means short bursts of weld that will need to be cooled off completely before the next weld is done. otherwise the panel distorts so much you might as well have just bought a new panel to start with.

[dsraven]

here is a good video and starting place to set the welder up and how it works. this is a series of youtubes I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KrwmK7df-s

[dsraven]

here is a link to a site that explains welding helmet shades required for different metals, thicknesses and amperage used.

https://www.millerwelds.com/resource...helmet-for-you

or a more in depth site

https://healthinnovationweekdc.com/w...t-shade-chart/

[dsraven]

also check the polarity of the machine if swapping back and forth between flux core and gas mig.

[Phungki]

There are some knobs and switches on the helmet. I definitely wasn’t dressed like that yesterday but it wasn’t in my plan for that day. I’ll remember that when it’s time to get serious.
Thank you everyone

[rgunlock]

Another thing that helps me is to shine a bright light on the pieces you'll be welding.

[MARTINSR]

I just don't like the auto darkening helmets, never could get used to it. This is my go to helmet, I have one at work and one at home, you are IN CONTROL you know what I mean?

http://www.accustrike.com/

Brian

[mr48chev]

Originally Posted by rgunlock

Another thing that helps me is to shine a bright light on the pieces you'll be welding.

He beat me to it. I weld outside because of no room in my garage and the fire hazard of a 80 year old wood building and sparks. that helps some but I have have had to put a cloth over the back of my head to keep the sunlight out of the back of the helmet if the sun is right at my back.

Try moving the button to the 5-9 spot from the 9-13 spot and I think that will help a lot. Then remember to move it back when you are done.

[dsraven]

another thing to think about is the welding fumes. look inside the helmet after a day of cutting, welding and grinding. you will likely have to give the lens a wipe. guess what, you noggin was right there too so that's what is inside your lungs if you don't wear a welding respirator. the gas for mig welding is what cleans the metal so the weld can be good, it is also in the air around the weld, not consumed by the weld, so be aware that you will be breathing that too. keep your noggin a bit back from the weld to get a better quality air to breathe.
the shade of the lens depends on the amperage and the higher the number the darker the shade so higher amperage would be a higher number due to the arc light emitted. a bright light is handy to keep next to you when welding in low ambient lighting because that way you can see the spot where the mig torch is going to strike the arc. after it is struck then the proper lens shade for the amperage should still be used to protect those eyeballs. we only get one set.
here is a link to a welding site that asks the same question.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lXm4JtAOuQ

here is another tip on masks and being able to se the weld.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqXsDY1lf0s

[cebra]

Originally Posted by rgunlock

Another thing that helps me is to shine a bright light on the pieces you'll be welding.

Same, I can't see well through my auto-darkening helmet but shining the brightest light I have right where I am welding (one of those $4 magnetic ones with like 30 led's from autozone) makes it like night and day...literally.

[1project2many]

Your father's right about figuring it out if you do enough welding but l would have shaved years off the learning curve if I'd realized what I was missing in the beginning. So here's something that no one told you. Something that no one has ever mentioned around me and something that really took me some time to figure out.

Look at what you're going to weld before you put the helmet down, or before the lens darkens. Stare at it for a few seconds. Look at where the tip of the welder is, where the wire is, where the metal is. Look at the pieces, how they line up, at where they touch and where they don't. Build that picture in your head and keep it there. You need it. Because the first thing you're going to do when the lens gets dark, or when you drop your helmet, is panic.

We're not talking falling off a cliff or car spinning into a tree type panic. We're talking "WTH has happened to my vision?" type panic. Your brain has been relying on vision to interpret what's around and now for a brief time vision is useless. So your brain is going to try finding anything that it knows in order to determine what is happening.

And all sorts of stupid things can happen during those moments. You might stare at a reflection inside your helmet lens. You might see only the bright flash from the welder. You might suddenly start focusing on the noises or smells that are all around you. Everyone's reaction can be a little different. It's the result of the brain screaming "WTF happened to sight???" But if you keep the image you created in your mind, if you keep focusing on that picture of where the wire should be, of what the mig tip and the pieces of metal look like, eventually you'll realize you can actually see what's going on. It will be like looking at a room through a keyhole because all the extra detail you can see in daylight will be missing. But you will be able to see. At first you will want to follow the light because it's tough to make out the details. And you might focus on the sound of the weld occurring instead of the puddle. But if you're practicing on thick pieces then you'll be able to move the wire as slowly as you want while you watch everything that's going on around the weld.

Pull the wire away and watch the arc get wider and make less heat. Move the wire closer and watch the arc dig into the steel. Look for the line between the bright flash of the arc and the dull glow of melting steel. Watch to see how the arc heats the metal then how the puddle flows over the pieces or how it burns into them. Watch to see how the puddle can build up, or how it settles, or how it sags depending on the piece you're welding. Don't worry about actually welding anything at first. Just learn to watch the puddle and how it and the metal around it behaves.

Once you can handle the transition from seeing without restriction to seeing through the dark lens, and once you know that you can recognize details through the helmet while you're welding, then you're ready to learn to weld Phungki-san.

[Killer Bee]

I'll give you the absolute best piece of advice in this thread, here it goes;

DO NOT START WELDING WITH ONLY ADVICE FROM A WEB FORUM

especially one that isn't even a dedicated welding subject matter forum..

find someone that knows how to weld that can at least show you the basics and watch your first welding..

or what would be better is take some classes in adult learning center or community college, etc.

I had the luxury of learning from my dad who was a main frame production welder for Allis-Chalmers Gleaner division..

so I was welding properly and safely at a much younger age than most..

welding is a dangerous trade that can lead to life altering injuries if you don't know what your'e doing..

please take my advice and don't lay a single bead until you find a local mentor or instructor to show you in person how to get started..

good luck!

[dsraven]

yeah, well said killer bee. most welder stores have classes in the evening, especially if they think you will be buying a welder. maybe sign up, the knowledge you glean from even one evening will be a great start.
then get some thick metal and run some beads, watch the metal and puddle etc like said above by 1project. practice till you can get down to a thinner piece of metal and then graduate down to the thickness you will be working on. then it will be easy (relatively)

[_Ogre]

pft... weld away
i'd start with something in the 3/16" range just to figure out how to watch the puddle
thin metal like patch panels isn't really puddling, more a series of tacks
i use 9 setting for mig & fluxcore at lower amps (i welded most of truk with fluxcore)

[Tempest67]

I don't consider welding sheet metal, "welding", but rather tacking.

There is NO Bead, NO Puddle, NO 'Laying dimes'....that is all for thicker metal

when you do sheet metal, the trigger is 'on' for about 1 second. Do this about every 3 inches, wait for it to cool to the touch, and do it again every 3 inches, and repeat until you have completely filled the gap. (Do NOT run a bead from tack to tack, it will create too much heat.)

Here are few pics of some cab corners I recently did, sorry, I did not take a pic of the completely welded in piece.

I am certainly not the best welder, but I do enjoy it, and I find some days I am a better welder than other days.........not sure why???

Hopefully this helps, and enjoy the learning process

[dsraven]

also, put a tack at the ends and work around the parts a bit otherwise you could find your parts gap getting bigger as things expand slightly due to heat. even though you are just tacking you are adding heat which expands areas compared to other areas.

[gigamanx]

My truck was my first ever welding project, so I'll try give you the same advice I just saw from Killer Bee....

I messed around with a 110v welder for a bit and couldn't get things right. googled, youtubed, talked to friends. Nothing helped until I saw a properly set up welder with someone who knew how to use it. My pops showed me by taking a thick piece of steel and having me try and do a single stroke with the MIG. Then we did a half moon shape. then we did a butt weld. All this was with thick scrap stock that was nice and clean. We then moved onto welding a 90 degree joint. Once I was comfortable I went home and was able to set up my welder in about 30 minutes. Once I knew what I was supposed to see and feel from an experienced welder, it made so much more sense. I then proceeded to go thinner and thinner, honing my skills. This happened over maybe 2 months before I attempted body panels. I started with scrap steel to set the welder correctly so I had penetration without blowing through the metal.

After all that..then I touched the truck.