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#1 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 60
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Alignment Shop Fail
After buying a perfectly good running truck, I decided I needed to replace the front springs which the PO had cut down to the point they rattled in their pockets. That turned into this.
So after replacing everything but the engine and the sheet metal, I finally made an appointment for the alignment shop. I chose Merchants Tire because it was 2 miles from my house, and I was worried about having a problem with the truck or dragging the non-aligned tires since it hadn't been out of garage in 9 months. Well the guy at the shop types the VIN number into a handheld computer. The VIN doesn't come up so he just looks at me and says he can't help me. I ask him what he is talking about and he says if my truck isn't in the computer, he doesn't know how to align it. The he says that my truck probably has shims. I say yes, its probably got a 1/2 inch of shims on each side. He looked at me like I just fell out of the sky. So I just got back in my truck and left. The good news is the truck ran great and didn't really feel out of alignment. I kept all the shims together that came out of the truck so I could put them back in and pulled the tie rods out as an assembly so that I could match the length of the new MOOG parts and it drove surprisingly well. It was really nice weather today and I really wanted to get back on the road. I just didn't think someone had to have a computer tell them how to do an alignment. I guess I have to find some old timer shop to make this happen. |
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#2 |
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 3,541
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I know the pain, very frustrating finding someone that will do the alignment and get it right even if they are willing. I just knocked my alignment out and I refuse to take it back to the same place. The alignment really wasn't right to begin with. Oh and they won't warranty the alignment, because it was lowered.
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Scott |
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#3 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 3,077
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I'd guess someone here could supply the toe and camber specs for a modern alignment, or you could find them from a manual. If you don't have one I can look in mine if you tell me what year and so on.
I seem to recall that toe and/or camber settings are different w/ radial tires. You may need to make a few calls to find a shop willing to work on an exotic ![]() I asked a nearby place if they could flush the brake fluid on my Camaro. They said it wouldn't improve performance. Apparently they were unaware that DOT3 fluid absorbs moisture and is supposed to be flushed every other year or so. |
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#4 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Marianna Arkansas
Posts: 7,270
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I would think those specs would be in the book. Isn't it on here somewhere for a download? I have one in the living room but my wife moved it during a clean up and I haven't seen it since. I get so frustrated with the front end thing I run into to this all the time rebuilding wrecks,and I want them all checked. Well there is on place a town over from me that no matter when it is you can call the guy and he can't get you in until the next wed afternoon. You can call him from the parking lot then walk in on him after he talks about how backed up he is then you go in his shop and he is sitting drinking a coke watching tv or something. ARGH!! I makes me want to get a couple of caster camber gauges and a Arnwood toe gauge , and a pair of turn tables and stick them out back by my frame machine and ad another purpose to it. Rant off, Jim
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#5 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I know there are a couple of threads on here on getting a good alignment on our trucks.
FWIW---after the local shop screwed mine up 3 times, I went and bought a Quick Trick alignment tool. Expensive bugger, but fairly easy to use and I can get the truck set better than the shop will, because I take my time and work until its right. Mine right now drives great. I set it up as best I could get based on the alignment discussions on the board. Camber R -1.0 degrees L -1.0 deg Caster R 2.1 degrees L 1.7 degrees Toe 1/16th inch in You want camber between -1 and -1.5 degrees for handling. 0 gives best tire wear. Caster you want as much as possible, but typically you need more on the right to compensate for the crown in the road. Toe can be anywhere between 0 and 1/16th inch, out gives better turning and in is more stable in a straight line. I'd like to get more caster, as it promotes steering return, but that was all I could get without throwing the camber off, and without modifying stuff.
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#6 |
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Princeton Texas
Posts: 40
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Being an Alignment Tech for to many years now. Alot of the newer alignment machines only go so far back on there specs. Any shop worth it can look up the specs on the internet unless you bring them. S-10 pickups still used shims so they should know how to adjust them.
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#7 | |
454 MAKES IT ROAR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Essex, U.K
Posts: 2,701
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
I get how to measure and adjust the Camber, but I don't get how to measure the Caster to see if it's out prior to adjusting....how did you do it Shawn?
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Nigel. An American living in a British body. 1971 Chevy Cheyenne 10 454 "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty" - Thomas Jefferson No more pain. 03.12.60 -- 12.28.10 http://www.youtube.com/Eightbanger |
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#8 |
Old member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Liberty, & Garden City S.C. , U.S.
Posts: 19,936
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I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. The guy that does mine is in his Grandfather's old 2 bay gas station and he gets mine dead on. I've never warn a tire out since I bought my truck back in 1986 and started taking it to him. He has the machine but he also has common since + a whole bunch of manuals. After the first couple of times of me taking the truck to him he now has it in the computer.
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1971 LWB Custom, 6.0LS & 4L80E, Speedhut.com GPS speedometer & gauges with A/C. 20" Boss 338's Grey wheels 4 wheel disc brakes. My Driver Seeing the USA in a 71 ![]() Upstate SC GM Truck Club 2013,14 and 2016 Hot Rod Pour Tour http://upstategmtrucks.com/ Get out and drive the truck this summer and have some fun! It sucks not being able to hear! LWB trucks rule, if you don't think so measure your SWB! After talking to tech support at Air Lift I have found out that the kit I need is 60811. Per the measurements I gave them. Ride height of truck inside spring and inside diameter of springs. |
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#9 |
Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon
Posts: 328
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I put new tie rod ends on my non lowered truck and set it to -.25 for camber, +1.5 caster, and toed in just a little. It steers pretty nice and the steering wheel goes right back to center after turning.
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#10 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
The Quick Trick tool I have has a procedure to measure it. Basically you put a digital level perpendicular to the wheel. Turn 3/4 turn of the wheel in, and zero the level. Turn 3/4 turn out and read the measurement, that is the caster.
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#11 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Modesto, CA
Posts: 2,188
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I have a friend that owns an engine shop and teaches a lot of different auto tech classes at the community college, and also my wife's uncle works at UTI in Sacramento and both of them say the same things about the up-and-coming technicians; the majority couldn't wrench their way out of a paper bag!
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#12 |
454 MAKES IT ROAR
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Essex, U.K
Posts: 2,701
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Thanks Shawn, thought there might be a special tool required.
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Nigel. An American living in a British body. 1971 Chevy Cheyenne 10 454 "In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." - George Orwell "When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty" - Thomas Jefferson No more pain. 03.12.60 -- 12.28.10 http://www.youtube.com/Eightbanger |
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#13 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
FWIW, I use 2 pieces of plexiglass with grease in between under each tire for turn tables.
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#14 |
Parts and more parts
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Lebo, Kansas (middle of nowhere
Posts: 6,821
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
I have a shop in my local area, that even though it has the newer equipment, will do their alignments the same way his father and grandfather used to do them. They will do lowered and standard suspensions and I have had no issue with their work. If their work appears to be out of the respectable bands, then they will work to make it right. Small town and old thinking is always a good staple in life.
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Frank |
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#15 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Md
Posts: 2,475
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Bruce's "Just a Pick a PU " has some spec.s on a 72... My 2 cents would be to do it yourself,... get it as close as possible with tape measure. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...318544&page=27
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#16 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#17 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 60
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Lattimer, thanks for the suggestion and the specs. I think I will DIY it. The only time my vehicles go to the shop are for inspection and alignment it really makes me nervous turning my truck over to someone else.
I ordered some alignment tools from Summit. Quick Trick was back ordered so I am going to try another brand. I may box string it this afternoon just to see what it looks like. I feel it isn't too far off. I ordered a tread depth gauge just to keep an eye on wear. I will probably only drive the truck 2000-3000 miles a year, so the tires will probably expire before they wear out. |
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#18 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
This thread has a ton of info on aligning our trucks: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...=487363&page=9 It's long, but there is a lot of good stuff in there.
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#19 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 2,662
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Shops are rare indeed but if you were in a 50 mile radius of Avenel, NJ....http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=642058
Cold comfort be in the Carolina's and such but they are still (reputable shop with experience) out there Last edited by twouvakind; 03-22-2015 at 11:14 AM. Reason: unintelligible rant |
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#20 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mickleton, NJ
Posts: 1,776
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
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Shawn 1970 Chevy C-10 SWB, 350, TKO 600 5 speed My build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=559881 |
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#21 | |
Account Suspended
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tucson
Posts: 2,183
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
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#22 |
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Klein Texas
Posts: 3,852
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Modern alignment equipment is design to be used with trained monkeys. You don't have to know alignment basics just push buttons.
Obviously the tech in the OP's story does not know how to do an alignment. <sign> That's today's world Edit - to Fitz's comment, there's nothing to stop them from aligning the vehicle. The spec only make the screen change from red to green. Alignments should be done by numbers not colors
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My Classics: '72 K20 Suburban + '65 Dodge Town Wagon '72 Corvette Roadster +'67 Corvette Roadster '73 Z-28 Camaro '63 Ford SWB Uni Pickup '50 Ford Coupe |
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#23 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Glendale, Arizna
Posts: 1,642
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Quote:
You can also "rough in" the camber by parking on a flat pavement then using a large "L" square laying on the ground, measure the top and bottom of the rim lips from any given point and not the differences. Lay it out on a sheet of cardboard then use a protractor to see what the camber angle is. Again, every time you adjust it roll it back a foot or two and back forward before measuring it again. I don't have any shade tree way to set the caster, I'd just concentrate on using equal shims when adjusting camber on the upper control arms to retain whatever caster it has in it. Maybe someone else can chime in on shade-tree caster LOL. I've had nothing but bad luck with dealership alignment techs, I've had good luck with "alignment only" businesses, particularly private owned not franchise. Some interesting links on the subject for DIY. http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-foru...-gauge.534269/ http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/susp...alignment.html |
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#24 |
Senior Member
![]() Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Franklinton NC
Posts: 1,309
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Hey Carmen Black. I work at a shop called County Line Auto Service just north of Wake Forest in Youngsville. If you need an alignment just call the shop and we can handle it. I had done many older cars with custom suspensions. Sorry for the shamless plug but really it's not that hard to align an old truck.
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#25 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 60
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Re: Alignment Shop Fail
Well, I built a string box with colored catfishing line and jack stands to do the toe. I measured it with a precision woodworking ruler that allows me to measure to the 1/64th of an inch.
Then I used the SPC performance Caster/Camber tool since the Quick Trick tool was on back order. It has bubble levels instead of digital but it worked ok. I got as close as I could to Lattimer's specs above. I really think I nailed the alignment. The truck runs straight as an arrow and turns great. The only problem was how mad I got thinking how much money I have spent on alignments over the years. And the best part of it is, I understand aligning the truck enough that I can make a change in 10 minutes anytime I want.
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Carmen Black Build 1971 SWB - Base Model |
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