Hagerty Market Update

[tristan]

Bad news today for those of you who like 'em cheap:

"1967-72 Chevrolet C/K Pickup: 79 (on a 0-100 market appreciation scale with 50 being average/flat price appreciation)

Average Hagerty Price Guide value: $8,350

The vintage trucks segment has been growing for a few years now, and the big Scottsdale Auction Week results for trucks indicate that growth is still strong. All measures of buyer interest are up for 1967-72 C/K Pickups, and these trucks lead the rest of the market on both the auction and private markets."

[special-K]

Market? To me they are just the trucks I have driven all my life because I love them. Gold is where you want to invest

[davepl]

I've had Gold in my portfolio for about 4 years, it's gone down.

I've had a '69 Camaro in garage for 20 years, it goes up.

My truck stays about the same.

I actually had to do the math not long ago to see if it was worth storing cars at $250 a month in a storage unit. The Camaro, maybe. The truck, only because I love it.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by davepl

I've had Gold in my portfolio for about 4 years, it's gone down.

I've had a '69 Camaro in garage for 20 years, it goes up.

My truck stays about the same.

I actually had to do the math not long ago to see if it was worth storing cars at $250 a month in a storage unit. The Camaro, maybe. The truck, only because I love it.

If you got into gold 20 years ago, don't you think you'd be singing a different tune?

[davepl]

Originally Posted by special-K

If you got into gold 20 years ago, don't you think you'd be singing a different tune?

I did, actually... I think it was $600 an ounce or so. But doubling in 20 years isn't really a stellar return. I think it nets out to around 4% per year!

When I buy an "Item" for investment, I don't buy gold or precious gems, I buy land, guns and ammo.

You should likely have all five (land, guns, ammo, gold, silver). I'm not a "prepper" by any stretch but more is better... a bag of silver dimes and quarters is handy for barter and exchange.

I think the main thing driving the values of these trucks just might be that the alternatives are out of reach. If you're going to restore a popular late-60s vehicle, what can you start with that doesn't cost $25K for a rust bucket? You're not going to find budget Camaros or Mustangs or Chevelles... so pickups are one of the few "entry level" vehicles out there that are affordable and -popular-. Sure you can buy an Olds Delta 88 for cheap, but they don't have a big following. The trucks do, and they're still (relatively) affordable.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Classic cars are a terrible investment *unless* you're a flipper and buy and sell constantly. Those are the only people making real money, but you have to turn and burn, you can't sit on them for years.

Buying one car and sitting on it hoping it will pan out in 10 years almost never works out. There's maintenance costs, insurance costs, inflation... all those combined typically wipe out any potential profit when you sell. That's not to say there aren't people out there that bought a Shelby for 3K in 1980 (which is equivalent to +/-9K today) and sold it for 40-50K recently, those people and cars are few and far between. Just one of my retirement accounts has accrued 15K in the past 5 years (excluding my contributions).

[davepl]

Originally Posted by 67ChevyRedneck

Classic cars are a terrible investment *unless* you're a flipper and buy and sell constantly. Those are the only people making real money, but you have to turn and burn, you can't sit on them for years.

I didn't mean to imply cars are an investment - they're terrible. I just happen to have stumbled across one that has appreciated annually. It's the only one of my cars that likely does - I'm sure the rest go predictably down.

Cars are an expense and the normal best case is depreciating asset.

The day I spend $8,500 bucks on an "average" 67-72 rig, and I gotta dump 8 more grand in to make it a decent rig, will be the day I stop playing with trucks...

Depends what you mean by average. The truck I -started- my restoration with was $6500 and I thought it was a deal. Because there are so many trucks out there in such a wide variety of conditions, I think there will be "a seat at the table for everyone" for a long time. Contrast that with Camaros, where getting a cheap '69 Camaro that's not a basket case is pretty much now impossible.

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by davepl

I didn't mean to imply cars are an investment - they're terrible. I just happen to have stumbled across one that has appreciated annually. It's the only one of my cars that likely does - I'm sure the rest go predictably down.

Cars are an expense and the normal best case is depreciating asset.

I agree, and it doesn't come up often here, but it comes up a lot on a vintage mustang forum I'm on, and every time it comes up, I'm like

All because of a handful of stories of guys that got rich off Shelby's, or a BOSS, or Mach 1 they held on to for 20, 30, 40 years...

I've owned my C10 since 1996, and I value my truck in the 8-12K range (to right buyer) and I've estimated I've spent 12K on insurance alone since 1996

[GASoline71]

Just a truck. Always will be to me. This "craze" of spending oodles of cash on a truck is beyond my comprehension.

The day I spend $8,500 bucks on an "average" 67-72 rig, and I gotta dump 8 more grand in to make it a decent rig, will be the day I stop playing with trucks...

Gary

[James the III]

Originally Posted by GASoline71

Just a truck. Always will be to me. This "craze" of spending oodles of cash on a truck is beyond my comprehension.

The day I spend $8,500 bucks on an "average" 67-72 rig, and I gotta dump 8 more grand in to make it a decent rig, will be the day I stop playing with trucks...

Gary

But to the guy looking at new or just off lease 2-3 year old trucks.. that see's sticker prices of 35-50k+
A 8k truck is a bargain .. to tow the camper/ trailer/boat.
I doubt the hagerty 8k value is a rusted out barely running junker..

THIS IS WHY older trucks value is going up..
most people can not swing a payment for new trucks.. most can not save the 40k+ to buy it cash either..
but 5-8k for a truck.. cash or a year or two loan easy.. peesy

[dubds10]

Luckily most enthusiasts understand the blue book values etc are all BS. None of them are even close to be realistic, but you get some guys who really believe their rust bucket project is worth $8000 because a book says that's the low end lol You can still find mint & restored trucks from $8-15k daily from sellers who know they are just trucks and they are a dime a dozen in some areas still.

Only some parts of the country do you actually pay these high outrageous prices for such a common truck, & other classic vehicles.

[engineer_gregh]

I will take all the mint and restored trucks you have for $15K. Bring 'em on.

[Chevyland]

Originally Posted by tristan

Bad news today for those of you who like 'em cheap:

"1967-72 Chevrolet C/K Pickup: 79 (on a 0-100 market appreciation scale with 50 being average/flat price appreciation)

Average Hagerty Price Guide value: $8,350

The vintage trucks segment has been growing for a few years now, and the big Scottsdale Auction Week results for trucks indicate that growth is still strong. All measures of buyer interest are up for 1967-72 C/K Pickups, and these trucks lead the rest of the market on both the auction and private markets."

I went to Scottsdale this year with a couple friends.
They are into early fords.
There were a lot of Chevy trucks on the block and they knew that's what I'm into.
We went to Barrett and Jackson, Gooding and Russo and Steele.
Every night we bs'd about cars. By the end of our stay, they were commenting on it too. 'Your trucks are going up in value, and what we are looking at is the opposite'.
Everything goes in cycles. These trucks happen to be going the direction every other collectible car has gone in the past. Good or bad, however you look at it, its reality. They just aren't cheap anymore.
On the Hagerty insurance thing. Once I switched to them to carry my insurance. I saved a lot of money!!! Try them out.

[special-K]

The trucks people are buying because they can't afford a new one are the 10-20 year old trucks that cost less than these, or the newer used $50k truck for $15-20k. The reason these trucks have been steadily going up is directly related to their increasing popularity. With all the members on this site, how many are daily driving these trucks as an alternative to buying a new truck? Especially outside of the arid S/W

[James the III]

Originally Posted by special-K

The trucks people are buying because they can't afford a new one are the 10-20 year old trucks that cost less than these, or the newer used $50k truck for $15-20k. The reason these trucks have been steadily going up is directly related to their increasing popularity. With all the members on this site, how many are daily driving these trucks as an alternative to buying a new truck? Especially outside of the arid S/W

I don't know.. but here a new truck that was 50k isn't 15-20 k till it's close to ten + years old and 150k + on it..

If you are going to buy a truck, an old truck.. why not buy one that is going up in value.. The square bodies are not yet, and many remember how they rotted out.. So resale of the 68-72 is much better. if you need to sell it..
Many never plan to have to sell things but then life kicks you down and welp it's gottta go..
What would you do.
--Buy a 67/72 that even if you sink another 3k into it, you'll at least break even.. most likely for more if the trend keeps going.. ?
--Buy a 73-87 and dump 3k into it and sell it for what you paid for it.. if not less?

For me it have to be a mighty clean square body 85 up. for me to even think of it.. As they are overpriced clean.. and you'll loose in the end.. if you need to move it..
Up here square body's the wheel well is rotted to the top of the bed sides..
same with front fenders.. door bottoms. awol.. even the front edge of the hoods are rusting through..

88-96 are few
97-up frame rot issues.. right at cowl to under the door..
anything 2010 up is still big money unless it's been run into the ground.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by special-k

the trucks people are buying because they can't afford a new one are the 10-20 year old trucks that cost less than these, or the newer used $50k truck for $15-20k. The reason these trucks have been steadily going up is directly related to their increasing popularity. With all the members on this site, how many are daily driving these trucks as an alternative to buying a new truck? Especially outside of the arid s/w

x2

[Chevyland]

I bet daily driver 67-72 trucks are a small percentage
I wouldn't call them an investment, but they will only be going up in value in the foreseeable future.
Same with high optioned square bodies, they are also increasing each year.
Another factor that makes later model trucks with over 100k on the odometer An option to new is they will be driving for another 100-200k.

Older trucks typically need an engine rebuild shortly after 100k
Not the best scenario for commuting with

[67ChevyRedneck]

Originally Posted by special-K

The trucks people are buying because they can't afford a new one are the 10-20 year old trucks that cost less than these, or the newer used $50k truck for $15-20k. The reason these trucks have been steadily going up is directly related to their increasing popularity. With all the members on this site, how many are daily driving these trucks as an alternative to buying a new truck? Especially outside of the arid S/W

I agree except for the 15-20K "newer" used truck. Sadly, 15-20K will only buy a 5-6 year old RCSB V6 with 60-80K on it. If you're looking for what I was looking for, a 4-5 year old ext cab V8 4x4 they're still in the 25-30K+ range with 60-100K+ on them. I just couldn't justify the math after factoring little to no warranty left and the higher interest rates for used cars. I ended up with a somewhat loaded brand new 2015 2LT Ext cab 5.3L Z71 for 37K and 1.99% interest. It's still worth around 30K a couple years later. I'm only a few weeks from paying it off

I daily drove my 67 from 1996-1999, 2003-04, and 2006-2009, but "other driver's" have gotten so bad during my 8 mile/30 minute commute to downtown Greenville that I literally hate driving my toys around these idiots anymore.

[Fraud]

Given the number of threads on this forum about airbags, c notches, LS conversions, drag racing, SPID decoding, frame off restorations and vintage air setups, I find it very hard to believe that a significant portion of the market for these trucks is made up of self employed people looking to spend 5 figures on a 45 year old 10-12 MPG truck to make a living with.

I did not purchase mine as a work vehicle. I purchased it to occasionally bring some joy to my commute, hopefully do some roadtrips, and to tinker with/gradually upgrade over time, and I'm not going to apologize for that.

I definitely spent more than $8500, but the timing was right for me even if the market is peaking. I had some specific requirements, and after months of searching I'm pretty confident that I paid a fair price for what I got. The market is what the market is.

[Old_Gold]

Mine is not a daily driver, but it gets commuter duties as well as truck duties. I did not look at mine as an investment, but did not want to lose value. If you pick up a new or late model truck, value is going to drop like a stone. I like these old trucks, they hold their value, and they are distinctive in any parking lot. That is win-win in my book!

[tristan]

I have enjoyed the responses and realize that everyone's buying, holding and selling motivations and circumstances are different.

I don't agree with the assertion that you have to be the Fast & Loud guy fleecing the witless on both the buying and selling end of things to make money on collectible cars, and that the rest of us are fated to be financial losers. Collector cars have a market, like any other type of collectible, and anything with collector interest rises and falls over time just like the stock market. You buy low, sell high and keep track of your holding costs (maintenance, insurance, storage, repairs). In the meantime you work at getting access to good information as to what is going on in the marketplace so you know when demand and prices are up or down. Too much work or you are going to be buried in your truck? Then don't worry about it, just drive and enjoy.

I will give you an object lesson in what not to do with your vehicle. In 1989 I decided I just had to have a early 1970s Mercedes 280SL roadster. A local dealer had one that I bought for what was then top dollar, $22,500. I bought in at the top of the market which then went into a swoon for a decade. In 1996 I bought a new house that needed extensive renovation and the MB had to go. The market was still bad and it took me until 1999 to unload my treasure for $18,500. Naturally these cars took off right after I sold it and that MB is worth $70,000 today. Too soon old, too late smart.

[geunther]

Obviously there are some vehicles that are good investments. On the "collector" or "speciality" vehicles I have purchased, I never expect to make money. But I do due diligence hoping I can enjoy the vehicle for a few years, and not loose money. So for I have had good luck. Operative word being "luck". Because I never expect to make money, I am not disappointed.

As far as these trucks, I did pay a higher than average price. But I did that because this is the truck I wanted and will likely pass it on to my daughter. And, I wanted an original, better than average truck.

The TV show guys do it only for the money. I think that shows.

[ranger danger]

When I buy an "Item" for investment, I don't buy gold or precious gems, I buy land, guns and ammo.

[ranger danger]

You should likely have all five (land, guns, ammo, gold, silver). I'm not a "prepper" by any stretch but more is better... a bag of silver dimes and quarters is handy for barter and exchange.

The problem with gold and silver in a SHTF scenario is you cant eat it but, if you have the other stuff, you don't need it.

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by ranger danger

The problem with gold and silver in a SHTF scenario is you cant eat it but, if you have the other stuff, you don't need it.

Money is just a concept, bullets are real