Rebuild isn't starting

[CowgirlKatie]

So we took a freshly rebuilt engine out of a 1969 grain truck and the manifold had a crack in it and eventually blow out and fried the electrical and the truck sat in a field for 5 years. It's going into my '72 step side long box so we took the engine all the way apart to check everything, and sure enough there's no ridge in the cylinders, no crud in the oil pan, no build up in the intake or heads, and the cam looked fairly new with no wear marks visible. So we put all seals in it and torqued everything to spec, painted it, changed it from points to HEI, and stuck in my pickup with a new Edelbrock 650. Got everything hooked up properly and it won't fire up. The starter works, the fuel pump works, it has spark, the timing is spot on, but it's almost acting like it doesn't have compression. I don't know if the valves aren't set properly? There aren't any vacuum leaks that I could find

[custom10nut]

So go back a few steps. Rotate the engine to get #1 at TDC, look at the rotor to see where it is. If it's at #1, leave it. If not pull the distributor and adjust it accordingly. If that's not the issue, pull the valve covers, and back off the rocker stud bolts till they're a little loose.
If you're getting everything but the compression, it's probably the valves too tight

[CowgirlKatie]

We checked the #1 piston with distributor position and balance already, and it's all in tune. Timing light also showed the timing to be right on

[CowgirlKatie]

I personally wasn't around for that part because I figured it'd be pretty hard to not be able to follow the Chilton manual. I asked him what he did and he told me he aligned the #1 piston at top dead center, lined the timing marks up on the gears, put on the new double roller chain, and lined up the distributor with the front towards the carb. Somewhere along the way leaving a newb unattended has ended badly for me

[HO455]

Some times aftermarket timing chain sets are not marked the same way as factory and the Chilton usually shows the factory line up. Just to be sure I would pull the valve covers and start at TDC making sure the valve events are occurring when they should. At TDC number one cylinder should have both valves closed the rotor should be just past #1 on the cap. When you rotate the crankshaft the exhaust valve should open when the piston is at the bottom of the cylinder. It should close as the piston gets to the top of the cylinder. The intake valve should open as the piston starts down the cylinder and close after the piston starts back up. This should follow on the next cylinder (8) in the firing order. A quick check is the #6 (I believe) cylinder is 180* off of #1 cylinder. So you can check it as you check #1 at TDC with both valves closed #6 will have the exhaust valve open.
I hope this helps

[GR8-68]

Sounds to me like valves are tightened down to much which would not allow valves to close properly. And very nice looking ride.

[toolboxchev]

Originally Posted by GR8-68

Sounds to me like valves are tightened down to much which would not allow valves to close properly. And very nice looking ride.

I also believe that previous post with checking the distributor being out needs to be rechecked also.

[geezer#99]

Originally Posted by CowgirlKatie

I personally wasn't around for that part because I figured it'd be pretty hard to not be able to follow the Chilton manual. I asked him what he did and he told me he aligned the #1 piston at top dead center, lined the timing marks up on the gears, put on the new double roller chain, and lined up the distributor with the front towards the carb. Somewhere along the way leaving a newb unattended has ended badly for me

He installed the chain correctly.
But then he installed the distributor wrong.
Should have rotated the crank one time to put the motor on tdc #1 compression. THen installed the distributor like he did.
Your motor's simply timed 180 degrees out.

[CowgirlKatie]

Distributor was checked, that was my first thought and it all lined up properly. It's not 180 out. I just have to take everything off and redo the valves and check the rods now

[Marine-58]

"it's almost acting like it doesn't have compression"

Since you aren't sure if the valves are set properly, start over. I didn't see what lifters you have, but assuming hydraulic, Slowly turn the engine over and as each cylinder comes to TDC, (doesn't matter which stroke) loosen the rockers to just where there is no tension and also not much slack. You should be able to wiggle them with your fingers.

Try to crank her up. Assuming everything else is correct, it should fire. If it fires, then while it is idling, tighten each rocker to the point that the clatter stops (Zero Lash) then take it down another 1/8th turn (Roller lifters) 3/4 turn (not roller lifters). Wash rinse and repeat for all 16 rockers.

Be ready for oil to shot everywhere. I would keep the valve cover on the side you are not adjusting. There are clip you can get to put on the oil hole of the rockers to keep the oil from shooting over the fenders.

I don't know if this is your problem or not, but you will at least know the valves are correct.

Good Luck.

[CowgirlKatie]

I know the oil sprays everywhere, I had to replace the lifters in my inline 6 in a parts store parking lot one day on cross the country trip. Fun fun. See my brother in law wants to learn mechanics, so I offered up this project to help teach him. This whole problem started when he didn't understand when I pointed out the valve springs and rod assembly and said keep these in the exact order they came out. He started taking everything off and chucking it all together in a bucket. I caught him before he took out the rods, but who knows about the rest. I don't know how much of a difference it really makes because I've always laid everything out in exact order transmission rebuild style so I've never came across any problems

[Marine-58]

Yeah, always watch what someone is doing if they don't have experience.... It isn't rocket science but there are a lot of ways to mess up something. As with most mechanical work, the details can make or break you.

Am I reading it correct that you tore down the head as well? Did you lap the valves back in before putting it together? If not, this is probably not your issue, but they may not seat properly. Shouldn't keep it from cranking though.

Did you/he pull the pistons? If so, what were the steps to put them back in?

Before tearing anything down again, it would be a good idea to run a compression test on all cylinders. But based on your statement of no compression, first thing I would do is to make sure the valves are set properly.

If that doesn't work then start from the beginning. Double check everything, gas to the carb and it is getting to the engine through the carb. Verify timing, spark, plug wires to the correct cylinder, etc... Sometimes it take a complete ctrl-alt-del.

[midniteblues]

The distribution being off can make a sbc sound like it has no compression. Before touching anything put a compression guage on a cylinder or a finger over the spark plug hole too see if it's building any.

One thing too watch out for if the chain cover or the pointer and damper are not original too the motor you can wind up with miss matched marks.

Also with the change too hei I hope you all read up on removing the resistor wire. This won't prevent it from starting but it will run like crap with that wire feeding the coil.

I'm betting the distributor is off.

[CowgirlKatie]

This is the only picture of the cam I have. Does it look like anything special to any of you?

[Coley]

Originally Posted by CowgirlKatie

This is the only picture of the cam I have. Does it look like anything special to any of you?

That's the bottom end and the crank....you might have posted the wrong pic.
Not that a pic will tell us much either way with respect to the cam.

Coley

[CowgirlKatie]

So I took the valve covers off and took out the rods one by one and found 4 bent ones. So everything is going to be taken back apart and gone through again. I'm thinking about buying a kit to redo the heads completely so there's no trying to figure out if it's all ok. I'll look at the pics I took of the cam and see if I missed something, I don't think it's been upgraded though

[CowgirlKatie]

Yeah, that's the wrong pic. Either way, I've gotta pull everything apart again

[Coley]

Don't pull it all apart...troubleshoot it methodically.
Remember..there is a good, clear reason why it won't start...you just have to narrow it down and fix that issue.
Its in there...you just have to find the reason/culprit.

Keep us posted.
Coley

[randy500]

I don't know that you have actually checked your firing order to number 1 cylinder on a compression stroke, I have never tried a timing light while cranking
Is that what you did?
I wouldn't rely on that method.
The factory specs to line up the dots on the timing gears is only to make sure the cam and crank are in synch. In that position the distributor would be firing to cylinder 6. You would have to rotate the crank 360 degrees to be on a compression stroke for cylinder 1.

[randy500]

Now that the timing cover is on you need to verify spark to number 1 on a compression stroke.
Have someone turn over the engine with a ratchet on the balancer bolt while you hold your finger in number 1 spark plug hole, when you feel pressure build continue rotating crank to 12 degrees before TDC on the balancer. Remove distributor cap and see that the rotor is pointing to number one spark plug wire. Now your timed. Re check firing order.
With cap on put put spark plug in wire and ground the plug, turn key on and slowly rotate distributor clockwise a bit then counter clockwise, when the plug sparks you are timed st 12 degrees TDC on number 1

[randy500]

And do you have accelerator pump squirt? If not fill the carb through the bowl vent, quadrajet has one vent in front, 2 vents on a Holley, fill through slot next to metering rod cover on an edelbrock, fill left and right bowls on an edelbrock carb, fill until you have pump squirt. Use a vegetable can with the rim bent in a V so the gas gets into the fuel bowl.
Last tip on starting a new or used engine installl is to make sure engine is full of coolant and not partial air locked, remove heater core hose from intake manifold and fill radiator till coolant flows from heater hose fitting, if no fitting verify block is full of water by removing thermostat housing. Always assume the engine is air locked and verify its full, if you don't the engine will overheat before the thermostat opens or boil over as soon as it opens

[AussieinNC]

Have been following along and have a few suggestions:

Remove all the spark plugs and perform a compression test...list the results for each cylinder...
drivers side cylinders front to back are 1,3 5 and 7
passenger side cylinders front to back 2,4,6,8

You should see around 150 psi on each cylinder...most auto parts stores can lend you a test gauge...

Did you remove the pistons from the block?
Did you remove and replace the piston rings on the pistons ?
Did you remove the camshaft and lifters?
Did you align the dots on the timing gear top and bottom gear to match when you put the chain back on?

I am attaching an image of the firing order and usual cap layout...

Lets us know the results of the compression test and answers to the questions...

[tabber]

Do you have full voltage going to the HEI, if I recall correctly point ignition has a resistor inline on the power wire. Maybe the distributor isn't getting enough juice.

[GASoline71]

"Kit" to redo the heads... what kind of kit are you talking about?

Gary

[CowgirlKatie]

I fully replaced the power wire. there's not resistor inline in it anymore
No, the pistons were not removed because I didn't buy a full rebuild kit because the engine had just been rebuilt before the wires fried.
The only reason we pulled it apart was to make sure that mice hadn't gotten into it and made a nest somewhere
We removed just enough to see the cam and put it all back together immediately because nothing looked worn in the least
I don't have a compression tester so I won't know until later some time for that it has decent compression or not. The finger over the spark plug hole indicated it was ok though
The pic of the distributor position you posted is exactly how it's currently set
All I know about where the gears are set for the timing is what he told me. I haven't had time to take everything off the front end yet to check, but he swears it's ok. (not that I necessarily believe him)
And by kit for the heads I mean the rods, lifters, rocker arms, springs, and valves. Nothing fancy, just top end stuff that bends and/or wears funny
I'm not the brightest light to be sure, but I'm afraid of what else got messed up. Which would be horrible if something was because it's a 4 bolt main and I have such big plans for it a couple years down the road