Major Disaster In Baltimore

[special-K]

As you all should know, Baltimore, Maryland is a major US port. Last night at around 1:30 am a container ship struck the Francis Scott Key Bridge and brought it down...gone

https://www.wbaltv.com/article/balti...ridge/60303975

[Boog]

I just saw that. Cars into the river. One station said it was a barge but looked like one of those container ships to me. Pray for the victims.

[Palf70Step]

Wow, what a Mess. Prayers for the best tht can be of the situation.

[special-K]

All ships in and out of the port pass under this bridge, and now none until all that steel is cleared

[57taskforce]

Crazy stuff. My wife sent this to me a little bit ago. Crazy to see the work vehicles in the frame of the video slide off into the water. I’ve been over that bridge a few times in my life, as I’m sure you have too Tim. Prayers for the families of those affected. Surely a bunch of people are coming home today.

[old Rusty C10]

occasionally i used to pass on that bridge, and never liked it MD has its fair share of bridges that are scary.. I just hope that the death toll doesnt go high

[special-K]

Originally Posted by old Rusty C10

occasionally i used to pass on that bridge, and never liked it MD has its fair share of bridges that are scary.. I just hope that the death toll doesnt go high

I know many feel the Chesapeake By Bridge is scary and I guess some feel the Francis Scott Key Bridge was, although I never heard anyone say that. What other bridges are scary?

The mayday went out in time to halt traffic from entering the bridge. The six they are searching for were from the construction crew working on the bridge

[mr.mud1]

terrible news.as bad as it was,looks like they managed to stop traffic just before the container ship hit,otherwise the death toll would be huge.awful,a huge loss.

[weasel29gm]

So sad hits home I was 8 when the Silver Bridge fell in Pt Plesant WV in 1967. Tradgies like this you don't forget. It's something that a area never fully recovers from. Thoughts and prayers to all.

[special-K]

Here are some facts about the bridge and the harbor.

All ships coming from the ocean and going back to are piloted by a US Coast Guard pilot from a point south of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. No shipping vessels pass under the Bay Bridge or Francis Scott Key Bridge into or out of the Port of Baltimore piloted by the ship's captain or crew.

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks security experts recommended constructing buffers at these bridge supports on the Francis Scott Key Bridge. That was deemed too expensive, so nothing has ever been done.

About 100 yards from this bridge is where Francis Scott key witnessed the bombardment of Ft. McHenry on Sept. 12th, 1814. That was what inspired him to write the Star Spangled Banner.

Ft. Carroll is a 3.4 acre manmade island located just southeast of the Key Bridge, built in 1848. It was designed by and built under the supervision of Brevet-Colonel Robert E. Lee

[mr.mud1]

Originally Posted by special-K

Here are some facts about the bridge and the harbor.

All ships coming from the ocean and going back to are piloted by a US Coast Guard pilot from a point south of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. No shipping vessels pass under the Bay Bridge or Francis Scott Key Bridge into or out of the Port of Baltimore piloted by the ship's captain or crew.

After the 9/11 terrorist attacks security experts recommended constructing buffers at these bridge supports on the Francis Scott Key Bridge. That was deemed too expensive, so nothing has ever been done.

About 100 yards from this bridge is where Francis Scott key witnessed the bombardment of Ft. McHenry on Sept. 12th, 1814. That was what inspired him to write the Star Spangled Banner.

Ft. Carroll is a 3.4 acre manmade island located just southeast of the Key Bridge, built in 1848. It was designed by and built under the supervision of Brevet-Colonel Robert E. Lee

so sad,it's the same here in Halifax Harbour where there are 2 huge container piers,one being expanded to be able to take the newest,bigger ships.there are 2 bridges across the harbour from Halifax to Dartmouth,the ships have to pass one bridge to get to the newest,biggest pier.we had the Halifax Explosion where 2 ships collided in the harbour during WW 1,flattening the city and killing thousands.ships had to follow rules but that day,one didn't but ships entering and leaving have to have,one of the Harbour pilots at the helm.only Navy and Military ships can come and go,one their own.i've been out fishing a few miles out from the mouth of the harbour with my dad on his boat and seen many times,the pilot boat there,waiting to pick up the pilot from a vessel leaving or to put the pilot on board to take a ship in.i think it was 30 or 40 years ago,a ship hit a bridge in Florida and right after that,the harbour authority here spent all one summer dragging barges loaded with rocks out the the bridge supports,tons and tons of rock all around them now.it's awful thing,feel so bad for everyone effected.take care all.

[CG]

My wife came in my puter room to tell me about this accident. I said yeah I was just reading about it. She said you dont watch the news or read the paper how did you hear?
I told her I get all the news I need to know right here on the truck board. She shrugged and went about her business =)

[Getter-Done]

Originally Posted by CG

My wife came in my puter room to tell me about this accident. I said yeah I was just reading about it. She said you dont watch the news or read the paper how did you hear?
I told her I get all the news I need to know right here on the truck board. She shrugged and went about her business =)

Same Here

[Boog]

Press conference just said the original bridge took 5 yrs to build but the replacement should go much faster. Lets hope so.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by Boog

Press conference just said the original bridge took 5 yrs to build but the replacement should go much faster. Lets hope so.

It should, being it's only the elevated erected steel part that needs built, and pilings...probably repairs to existing ends. 50 years in machinery advancements should help

Right now it's a matter of grabbing up the suppliers and get them fabbing. If I was in charge I'd say built it the same using existing prints

[HO455]

Between the changes in seismic and other regulations since 1977 and the greed to get on the government payroll there is absolutely no chance the bridge will be quickly replaced with an exact copy of the original bridge. A complete new design will be the end result. With lots of public meetings and design controversy.

Unfortunately folks who use the bridge regularly will need to find an alternative route for the next couple of years.

Here's some more information from the marine news reporting side.

https://gcaptain.com/baltimore-bridg...-supply-chain/

https://gcaptain.com/breaking-mv-dal...more-incident/

https://gcaptain.com/ship-lost-contr...timore-bridge/

https://gcaptain.com/ships-mayday-ca...h-saved-lives/

https://gcaptain.com/insurance-losse...idge-collapse/


https://gcaptain.com/titanic-era-law...-in-baltimore/


https://gcaptain.com/can-biden-deliv...-to-baltimore/

[68bowtie]

Originally Posted by CG

My wife came in my puter room to tell me about this accident. I said yeah I was just reading about it. She said you dont watch the news or read the paper how did you hear?
I told her I get all the news I need to know right here on the truck board. She shrugged and went about her business =)

Now that’s funny right there haha I can relate!

[special-K]

The might want to rethink the buffers again here. The bridge was a good design, completed in '77. I wonder if they'll grab the prints and put the steel order out ASAP, or if they'll totally design a different bridge. All I-95 trucking that's not allowed to use the tunnels (hazardous loads) use the east side of I-695...this bridge. The western side has congestion problems as it is.

Of all things, after over 10 years of needing to be in the Baltimore area, I'm about to leave for Townson, MD. It's on York Rd, so due north of downtown that is really just a part of the city now. I wonder how it will go. I'm not taking I-695. I'll scoot around cross-county and straight down. But it's always more to deal with than I care for. Gotta do whatcha gotta do

[GOPAPA]

Out on the Columbia River where lots of ships come and go a Bar Pilot brings the ship or barge in from the ocean and then he turns the ship over to a river Pilot ..Same thing back out,,, I have friend who retired a river pilot and he told me at one of my class reunions that he had to go by way of the bouy's to bring the vessel up and down the river.as a guide . ( by the way them pilots make a lot of money piloting ,let me tell ya )

[HO455]

Originally Posted by GOPAPA

Out on the Columbia River where lots of ships come and go a Bar Pilot brings the ship or barge in from the ocean and then he turns the ship over to a river Pilot ..Same thing back out,,, I have friend who retired a river pilot and he told me at one of my class reunions that he had to go by way of the bouy's to bring the vessel up and down the river.as a guide . ( by the way them pilots make a lot of money piloting ,let me tell ya )

It's funny you mentioned the Columbia River pilots. Because on Thursday morning representatives from the Maryland pilots flew out here and met with the Columbia River pilots. I did not attend the meeting but heard they were highly interested in the Columbia River pilot's vessel emergency procedures.

P.S. It's good to see you're back to posting again!

[GOPAPA]

Originally Posted by HO455

It's funny you mentioned the Columbia River pilots. Because on Thursday morning representatives from the Maryland pilots flew out here and met with the Columbia River pilots. I did not attend the meeting but heard they were highly interested in the Columbia River pilot's vessel emergency procedures.

P.S. It's good to see you're back to posting again!

thx ,,I remember chatting with you some months ago,, You worked with a tug company and know a lot about ships and navigation .. I grew up watching them on the Columbia River and had many friends work on the tug boats ..As for the Lewis and Clark Bridge ,, that oldie might come down on its own before a ship hits it.. some day another bridge will be built across the Columbia some where close to Longview I do believe.

[special-K]

I bet they do. All they do is pilot that same short route. That's why harbors do this. The pilots are experts. The Association of Maryland Pilots was established in 1852. it's the oldest pilot association in the nation. A pilot takes boards the ships at the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, inbound, and at Port to the mouth outbound. There was piloting even before the association was formed, with reference to bay pilots found in records dating back to 1640. Pilotage laws were established during the first session of Maryland's legislature in 1787. Pilots would board vessels and guide them to the dozen historic ports on the Chesapeake Bay

[special-K]

It's good to see Maryland officials taking strides to do whatever they can to improve this passage. I'm about up to here with all the "woulda shoulda coulda". This passage has existed for 47 years with more tonnage passing under this bridge than numbers can count. I saw some YouTube armchair intellectual say the piers are too close, look at the Golden Gate span, why was this not a suspension bridge? You mean like the Chesapeake Bay Bridge?? I'm sure you could ask an actual engineer involved in the design and you'd get your answer. Maryland has one of the best hiway systems in the nation. The Port of Baltimore is ranked 9th in total tonnage, 10th in dry bulk, and 1st in motor vehicle import. It's busy with no such incidence until now. Experts say the loss of power and stiff currents were what steered it into the pier. Another expert explained reversing the thrust only involves one prop, which causes a ship to need rudder correction. Also, the port anchor had been dropped. Then there are those saying look at where the ship is from, insinuating China was involved. Singapore is at the tip of Southeast Asia and part of Malaysia, so wrong on that theory

[HO455]

Originally Posted by special-K

Another expert explained reversing the thrust only involves one prop, which causes a ship to need rudder correction. Also, the port anchor had been dropped. Then there are those saying look at where the ship is from, insinuating China was involved. Singapore is at the tip of Southeast Asia and part of Malaysia, so wrong on that theory

Personally I would dismiss the expert talking about reversing the thrust. These kind of ships only have one propeller. But every propeller no matter what direction it is spinning requires rudder correction. Having no idea where what angle the rudder was at when power was lost (And I doubt the reporter knows either) I wouldn't try to surmise how reversing the propeller affected the ships course at the time. I will say the bridge crew operating the ship had no easy choices on how best to slow the vessel down and not hit the bridge. The pilot likely was not completely in the loop due to the language differences and the high level of adrenaline causing people to speak fast and shout in the increasing chaos as the bridge loomed closer. These are questions that will be answered when the NTSB's report comes out in about 10 to 12 months.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_D...%20ft%204%20in)

About the anchors some background. Ships generally have the anchor ready to drop when transiting restricted waters. Which means that the pelican hook(s) which prevent the anchor from dropping are removed from the chain and a crew is on station to operate the windlass. Depending on whether the crews were still on station to operate the would affect the response time to drop the winch. If the crews had secured the anchor windlass for sea or had gone off to other duties at the time of the power failure they could have been 900 feet away from the windlass controls when all the lights went out. Nothing like an 300 yard dash in pitch black with a flashlight. They were doing well to get the one anchor dropped in under 3 minutes which is what my understanding is of the time from the Mayday went out. Again where the crew was and whether or not the anchor was ready to drop will come out in the NTSB investigation.

More information on anchor windlass construction and operation in this link. For those who are interested.

https://www.marineinsight.com/naval-...and-operation/

The ship being listed as from Singapore has less to do with the vessel's overall condition and crew abilities than what flag the ship is operating under. It is often referred referred to as a "Flag of Convenience". Which basically gives the operator of the vessel the choice of deciding what safety rules and crew treatment conditions they want to operate under. Kind of like licensing your car in a different state to avoid safety inspections or emission regulations. Again see the link for more information.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_convenience

Enjoy the reading. Fortunately it's not often the mostly useless trivia sloshing around in my grey matter becomes interesting to folks outside the marine industry.

[special-K]

that reverse thrust/only one prop statement was made by less than an expert, now that I look back. It was someone involved in marine transport, but admitted this was not the class of ship he had experience with. He was more speaking to debunk the 'theories' that immediately popped up. Just giving possibilities. I do really appreciate having you with your real world knowledge. One explanation I read for "It looked like the ship was steered right into the columns" is the maneuver known as "rounding" to reduce impact on a certain collision. You know all this stuff. I do realize we landlubbers and even marine 'experts' can only speculate and the truth in the matter will be told by NTSB once they've completed the investigation. I only bring what I do up to show there are actually other possible explanations than what they have concluded from their barstool or couch