Cant get truck to start, Please Help if you can, Thanks

[garold99]

Hi all,

I posted last week about my truck not starting and thought it was my starter. What happens is when i turn the ignition you can hear a single click at the starter so there is electicity getting to it. All it is is that one single hit though, the engine doesnt turn over or anything else.

I climbed under it and you can hear when the ignition engages, but nothing after that.

So I pull the starter thinking its bad and I take it to O'reily's. They test it and it works fine. So I put it back into the truck and nothing, the same thing happens.

I forgot to mention that when this was starting to happen if I moved my gear shift lever on the column around in park then sometimes the truck would start. But at the time I pulled the starter not even that was working.

Anyhow, I put starter back in and the same thing was happening. So I pull the battery and take it to be tested. Battery tested fine, showed 750 cranking amps. So while I was at O'reily's I bought another battery cable to replace the positive battery cable. I got one extra long so I could lay the starter on the ground to connect the cables.

Anyhow I replaced the positive battery cable and that didnt work either, still the same thing happened. But while my son was hitting the ignition a number of times the truck at one time cranked. So I took it off its stands and tried it again. Well nothing happened, I jiggled the gear shift on the column while hitting the ignition and finally found a spot it would start. Got the truck running and drove it around, I really missed that When I got back home I pulled it into the drive to get it out of the street just incase it didnt restart, so I could at least work on it in my drive way instead of the street.

After turning truck off, I tried to restart it and NOTHING, still just does the same thing. Hit the ignition and get a one time click at starter. Even tried jiggling the gear shift but that didnt even work.

So here is what Ive done so far. Tested starter and battery and both tested ok. Changed out the positive battery cable.

What else do I need to try? Maybe replace the ignition wire? But I would think if I'm getting a click down there then the ignition wire is ok.

One thing and this might not matter at all. The positive battery cable is pretty long, 65 inches, I dont think that would matter. But it does lay over the negative battery cable. Would that effect anything? I mean both cables are insulated so they wouldnt cross fire or cancel anything out would they? Could it be a ground problem somewhere? I would think if it was a ground problem then I wouldnt even get a click when I hit the ignition.

Any help is greatly appreciated. And sorry for the long post, but I wanted to let you know exactly what I have done so far.

Thanks

[too much stuff]

I would say try a different starter all together. Kinda sounds like the drive or solonoid. That may narrow it down some.

[garold99]

One other thing, I've never had to use shims on the starter. Would it all of a sudden need shims? I know thats kinda a stupid question but I had to ask.

Thanks

[jjk3]

Starter solenoid. I had the exact same thing happen to me. I usually jumped the starter to get the engine to spin over. More than likely the contacts in the solenoid are burnt. You can pull off the solenoid and file the contacts down, then reassmble and test. That worked for me, but eventually I ran into the exact same problem. The best thing to do is
not to buy a starter from parts stores. They really suck. Go to GM, or get one from Summit. Good luck. John

[garold99]

But how would the starter test good when I took it in? I was right there when they hooked it up and it spun fine.

I hate to buy another starter when this one had a lifetime warrenty and would be replaced free if its bad.

But I hate more not having my truck to drive. I guess I could get another starter and then if it didnt work take it back. At least that would confirm things some.

Thanks

[garold99]

Also this isnt the multiple clicking noise, just a single click then nothing. Would that still be the solenoid?

[jesgord]

I'm new to all this, but could it be a bad neutral safety switch?

[jjk3]

The burnt contacts creates resistance in the circuit. Since resistance and amperage are inversely proportional, the increased resistance will decrease the amount of amperage available to the starter. The starter will not have enough amperage available to spin. The single click you're hearing are the contacts coming together, because of the pull in windings (if I remember right).

I went through the exact same thing. Pull apart the solenoid, shouldn't take but 10 minutes or so. I just took mine back, told them it had a bad solenoid, and they gave me another one. I think I've been through about 4-5 starters between two engines, and about 3 alternators. All of them were from Advance or Auto Zone, and all of them were installed correctly. Good luck. John

[Sweet72]

Sounds like you're not getting sufficient current to the starter solenoid. That neutral safety switch (NSS) or associated wiring mentioned by neonlarry in a previous thread may be the culprit. NSS's aren't cheap (40-60 bucks) so be sure that's your problem before randomly replacing it. You cannot check current with a voltmeter so you should get an ohmmeter and check continuity of that switch. Read continuity from the ignition switch to the NSS and from NSS to starter solenoid. You'll be looking for less than 2 ohms. It should be a purple 12ga wire all the way. I'm assuming you have a 67-72 with auto trans. The NSS is located on the steering column under the dash. Also, the battery neg. cable connection could be causing this. Remove the - term. from the batt. and read continuity from terminal end to the engine block, as this cable should terminate at the engine.

[garold99]

Sweet72, I did forget to mention, my truck is a 71. That NSS check looks like it may be way over my head. Is there somewhere I can go to get a diagram of where and how to check it. I'll have to check my book and see if it might show.

Can they test those at the auto parts store if I just take it off and run it up there?

Thanks

[Cat Fuzz]

When bench testing a starter is cannot duplicate the load of cranking an engine. A starter that spins freely may still not have enough power to turn over an engine. The clicking you hear is the starter gear popping out and engaging the flywheel/flexplate. The starter probably has a bad connection in the windings that is occasionally making contact.

[jhwkns]

You can by-pass the NSS with a remote starter switch to test... You should also chect the pos. junction block mounted on the passenger side inner fender... Be certain that everything is clean, and tight.. Good Luck...

[jjk3]

Wouldn't it make sense that if he is getting a "click" then then voltage is getting to the starter from the NSS? John

[Sweet72]

Originally Posted by jjk3

Wouldn't it make sense that if he is getting a "click" then then voltage is getting to the starter from the NSS? John

Yes you can have full voltage to the starter but not enough current (amperage) to turn it over. This could be caused by dirty contacts in the NSS, the dirt doesn't allow full current flow. A corroded connection will give the same result.

A simple way to look at electricity is to relate it to water flowing through a pipe. Voltage is the force (pressure) that pushes current (water) through the wire (pipe). If current (water) flow is restricted by resistance [ie: corroded/worn/dirty terminal/connection] (restricted water pipe), the voltage will still be there but the current required to run the motor isn't there.

I'd jumper that neutral safety switch with a piece of 10-12ga wire and see if she starts consistently.

[BobM]

Sounds like a bad battery cable connection. Did you check the ground cable? Both at the battery and where it bolts to the frame? I had the same problem. It was a dirty connection on the frame.

[68w/sbc406]

isnt the NSS on the steering collum???(mine was a manual so i dont know) could you take a jumper wire from one side of the NSS to the other(a test if you dont have a meter) and its a cheap test

[Boog]

{I forgot to mention that when this was starting to happen if I moved my gear shift lever on the column around in park then sometimes the truck would start}
This sounds like a very worn NSS. Jumping the two purple wires then trying to start the engine will determine if the switch is good or not. It's a free check. Move on from there. Boog

[garold99]

Thanks for all the help guys. I will see if I can the NSS to check it. I'm guessing all I do is run a wire from one side to the other to bypass the NSS. But do I completely disconnect the NSS or just tie a wire into each side to kinda make a bridge across the NSS. Im asking this as a blind question because Im still not sure what an NSS looks like, I havent climbed under the dash to look at the stearing column yet, thats a job for when the sun comes out in the morning.

Im still not giving up on the bad starter theory, I just want to have all my bases covered for if I have to take the starter back and convince them its bad.

Thanks

[Cat Fuzz]

Sounds to me like you have two problems. Bad starter and bad/misaligned NSS. If you're getting the clicking at the starter, then the NSS isn't the problem. I'd bet money you have a bad starter.

[garold99]

So Cat what your saying is that Bench testing the starter is not the same as having the starter actually on the truck. Because the Bench test is a free test with no load on the starter. By load I mean the starter having to turn over the engine. Hence the starter will turn because it has no load bearing on it.

How do I explain this to O'reily's to get them to cover the lifetime warrenty on the starter so I dont have to pay for another one. I got the lifetime warrenty for just that reason. This is like the 3rd starter Ive put in over the years and figured I would need the lifetime warrenty.

Thanks

[Cat Fuzz]

Originally Posted by garold99

So Cat what your saying is that Bench testing the starter is not the same as having the starter actually on the truck. Because the Bench test is a free test with no load on the starter. By load I mean the starter having to turn over the engine. Hence the starter will turn because it has no load bearing on it.

How do I explain this to O'reily's to get them to cover the lifetime warrenty on the starter so I dont have to pay for another one. I got the lifetime warrenty for just that reason. This is like the 3rd starter Ive put in over the years and figured I would need the lifetime warrenty.

Thanks

Tell them you had it tested on the truck at an auto electric specialist. A no-load test is very different than having it on the truck. Sometimes you gotta be a bit of a jerk or they'll mess with you. I just walk into Schucks like I know more than everyone there combined (I probably do) and no one argues with me.

[garold99]

The more I think about it, bad connections in the windings sounds like that could be it, since it did engage once after I hit the ignition a number of times. This would make me think that it just hit on a good spot and fired over.

[cduster]

Have you tried jumpintg the terminals on the starter? Sounds like it may be a bad ground. Take a pair of jumper cables and go from the neg post of the battery directly to the starter housing and see if it will crank over then.

Dan

[garold99]

I will try that. But where would I connect the end by the starter housing. Or do I just touch it while someone else hits the ignition. Sorry its late and I'm trying to picture this because someone else I know mentioned jumping the starter that way to see if its a bad ground.

But isnt the starter grounded to the engine. And the engine is grounded at the motor mounts and all the other bolts that connect it and the trans to the frame. I know there is a ground wire that goes from the engine to the frame. And on mine that wire is broke in half, but it has been that way since I bought the truck back in 95.

I would think that if it was a ground then I wouldnt even get the click sound when I hit the ignition. At least other things Ive worked on that had a ground were completely dead if ground was not hooked up.

Thanks

[curbyk]

I once had a Chevy Vega that would run fine when the parking brake was pulled up, would not run very good or long when it was not. I changed the fuel pump (electric), same thing happened. It dawned on me the brake cables were making a ground to the body. Put a couple of ground straps from the body to engine, never had that problem again. Reason for the story is poor or no ground can make strange things happen. Motor mounts and transmission mounts have rubber between the steel componets to prevent vibrations and make poor or no ground if in good repair. Make sure you have good ground straps connected.

Good luck