Anyone ever put antilock brakes on our trucks?

[pat]

After driving our 70 longstep for a week, I dont like the brakes locking up so easy (either my driving, the bald tires or both). Does it take way too much work to do this? Seems like it would be a lot safer.

[68CST327]

It may be just me, but I HATE anti-lock brakes. The one time I got into an accident, I blame it on the brakes. It just took too long to slow the car down when I was standing on the brake pedal (stupid girl in truck in front of me on the freeway [on the cell phone!] locked them up in front of me).

I'd say get some new tires. Trust me, my brakes were locking up too, but it was because of the old tires on which the rubber was very hard. Made it a b!^ch to drive it in the rain, too. Maybe switch over to a 3/4 ton brake booster as well. They are a lot more power than the 1/2 ton units.

[68LSS1]

Installing anti lock brakes would be possible but a engineering nightmare at the same time. You would have to change to a later model rear end that has the sensor in the housing, fab/modify bracketry to fit the sensors on the front wheels, install the anti lock servo, make the lines, install the anti lock computer and then figure out a way to have it work as a stand alone unit. Tires are what stops a vehicle. If you can lock the brakes up now then adding 4 wheel disc, 6 piston calipers, etc, etc, will NOT decrease your stopping distance. You can change boosters and master cylinders to gain more of a mechanical advantage but your still back to the point at which when the tires loose traction you loose braking ability. You mentioned your tires are bald, there's problem number one. You want ot improve braking then go to a lower profile and wider tire. The idea is to increase the contact patch which allows you to brake "harder" or will allow the addition of the 4 wheel disc, multi piston calipers, etc. to be more effective. Another good option is a hydraboost unit which I will be using along with 4 wheel discs (Baer's up front). You can get info here about a bolt in hydroboost unit. Paul will handle any questions and is great to deal with.

[Longhorn Man]

I think it'd be a bad idea too.
ABS has saved me from one small accident...but put me in danger more times than I can count.

[68CST327]

Cars with anti-lock brakes are more likely to be involved in fatal crashes than cars without them.

-USA Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)

Interesting quote.

[Maximum Overdrive]

Originally Posted by 68CST327

Quote:
Cars with anti-lock brakes are more likely to be involved in fatal crashes than cars without them.

-USA Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)

Interesting quote.

Maybe I missed something earlier but there was more to what they said.

The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has conducted several studies trying to determine if cars equipped with ABS are involved in more or fewer fatal accidents. It turns out that in a 1996 study, vehicles equipped with ABS were overall no less likely to be involved in fatal accidents than vehicles without. The study actually stated that although cars with ABS were less likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of other cars, they are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents.

ABS brakes let you stop faster period. If you hit something with the ABS brakes because you didnt stop dont fool yourself and think non ABS brakes would have stopped you sooner. The biggest problem with ABS brakes is most people do not know how to drive with them and operate them. ABS brakes will stop faster everytime over regular brakes that tend to lock up. Too many people get fooled by the the pulsing of the brakes and they either let up or try to reapply them thus loosing valuable time for the ABS brakes to keep working.

[Dick Dale]

I agree with Maximum Overdrive. I will admit I am probably one of the idiots to let off and reaply the brake. My 2002 is the first vehicle I have owned with ABS and I am too used to pumping the brake. By the time we get used to these, there will be something new. Curmudgeons relax, we will still have something to complain about.

[Russell]

ABS is great on ice and in snow, but otherwise is a real hazard to your health... It increases fatal crashes due to roll overs. When you lock em all up, you can turn as hard as you want, but you still plow in the same direction as then you first locked up, but when you have ABS, you immediately swerve to try and avoid the accident, usually causing a rollover in a truck...

[longhorn71]

Originally Posted by Russell

ABS is great on ice and in snow, but otherwise is a real hazard to your health... It increases fatal crashes due to roll overs. When you lock em all up, you can turn as hard as you want, but you still plow in the same direction as then you first locked up, but when you have ABS, you immediately swerve to try and avoid the accident, usually causing a rollover in a truck...

i find abs is crappy on ice.On narrow back roads it is BAD.I have had a lot of close calls with it.slid in to the ditch a few times to aviod a crash too.ABS is used on large truck to and i am a truck driver.Now that is one place abs should not be.slowed down to turn and slid though a few intersection with it.Been on the hi-way and had a car turn in front of me,barly stoped in time.On that note keep in mind just because it's a large truck and has bigger brakes does not mean it will stop faster.We also carry way more weight,so the stoping distance is longer.Also Air brakes have somthing called "lag time".Lag time is the time u step on the brake until the time the air gets to the brake.The brake air lines are empty went driving not like in hyd system

[pat]

..scratch that idea

[1972]

You would have to change to a later model rear end that has the sensor in the housing

Not that it matters much, but my '95 (4 wheel anti-lock) receives the rear signal from the transmission, it just senses if the driveshaft is turning or not. There are no wires to the rear end housing or any sensors.

[sniper2321]

Nascar use abs and you can get the part that is not that expensive throught BSR race parts. It works real good. I have 1.

[Canada20]

seems to me that my uncles early to mid 90's C1500 had rear wheel only ABS. I always thought that wasn't a bad idea; then you could just run full pressure to the rear wheels for the time when you've got a trailer on or something that gives some stopping traction to the rear and still not have to worry about locking the rear up in the snow.

Greg

[gmc67swb]

This whole thread sounds alot like when all the car manufacturers went to fuel injection..Everybody hated it..can't work on it when it messes up..I don't understand it....etc... Now everybody is trying to fit it on their older vehicles!!

There has to be something good about it if comes on most new cars. When you panic stop and the tires don't lock, you still have the ability to manuever the vehicle. To me, that would make for a safer vehicle.

OK, now everyone can bash me and tell how bad air bags are too!

[68LSS1]

Originally Posted by gmc67swb

This whole thread sounds alot like when all the car manufacturers went to fuel injection..Everybody hated it..can't work on it when it messes up..I don't understand it....etc... Now everybody is trying to fit it on their older vehicles!!

There has to be something good about it if comes on most new cars. When you panic stop and the tires don't lock, you still have the ability to manuever the vehicle. To me, that would make for a safer vehicle.

OK, now everyone can bash me and tell how bad air bags are too!

A vehicle driven by a professional will be quicker around a course if it does not have ABS. I think ABS are good and work as advertised for 99% of the population that drives/owns vehicles. The problem is we all think we are experts and blame ABS for other problems (bad tires, following too close, etc.) I can identify with the fuel injection thing. It took a lot to "pry" carburetors out of my hands. But look at me now. As far as the air bags we'll save that for another converation.

[Stroker]

Originally Posted by sniper2321

Nascar use abs and you can get the part that is not that expensive throught BSR race parts. It works real good. I have 1.

Sniper, are you using a LSB (Lock resistant brake valve) on the rear. I've been wondering how well they work to prevent rear wheel lock up under heavy braking at high speed.

Is this the same thing as your using?

http://dpiracingproducts.com/product...Systems#DPILBS

Part # DPILBS

[Longhorn Man]

ABS looks great in tests.
In a CONTROLLED environment, you can take any idiot and have them stomp on the brake pedal, and stop in a good distance.
The real world is anything but a controlled environment. You have to turn, swerve, try to anticipate the ABS kickin in...you can actually feel the vehicle decelerating LESS when the ABS kicks in in real conditions.
Most insurance companies stopped giving discounts for ABS vehicles. That has to mean something. And if I'm not mistaken, it isn't federally required...that says a mouthfull with all the safety stuff they have now. (by 2007 the power window toggle switch as we know it will HAVE to be replaced, becouse a kid COULD get killed....funny thing is, there are NO recorded hospital visits by children (nor deaths) resulting from acccidental window activation....Info from local news paper)

Kinda like the early air bags...they decapitated ppl...even the new "second generation" bags often do more harm than good in lower speed collisions. (ask any EMS or doc) Yes, the bags will save your hide above 50, keep you from eating the wheel or the windshield...but at 35 - 45, it'll beat the crap out of you.

Isn't the whole "second generation air bag" kinda like admiting to a mistake?

I wish i could remember where I read this...a very interesting quote, "if the FDA was looking at a drug with the KILL/LIVE ratio as air bags, it would NEVER be approved."

The auto makers are required to come up with new safety features every year. This is why you have to put your foot on the brake to place the shifter in gear. (Have you EVER accidently placed your [properly operating] vehicle in gear???) This is why there are warnings on every surface.
Another one that urks me, the feds actually told the auto makers that the windshield has to be raked back at 'X degrees' so as to reduce the glare to oncoming drivers. You ever notice how hard it is to see out the windshield on a sunny day in a new car? The DASH REFLECTION hinders the driver's vision now!

Lots of stupis sh!t goin on when you look into it.

[68CST327]

you can actually feel the vehicle decelerating LESS when the ABS kicks in in real conditions.

Exactly. The one and only time I've been in an accident, it was because I was jamming on the brakes... Right when I thought I was going to make it okay, the ABS was causing the car to lose it's stopping ability as it was slowing down. And I ended up busting up the hood and grill on this GMC 2500's rear bumper.

With normal brakes, barring the event of skidding of tires, the vehicle should slow down more or less exponentially proportional to the distance. With ABS, the stopping distance increases the more the vehicle decelerates.

[Longhorn Man]

Oh yeah, i know I'll get flamed for this ....I don't care. I do realize that there are a LOT of things on a modern vehicle that will save your hide verses old stuff. I don't deny that.
I can hear all the nasty-grams being typed and sent to my PM box now anyways.
I know I offended someone. (boo frikken ho )

Flame suit on.

[68LSS1]

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

Oh yeah, i know I'll get flamed for this ....I don't care. I do realize that there are a LOT of things on a modern vehicle that will save your hide verses old stuff. I don't deny that.
I can hear all the nasty-grams being typed and sent to my PM box now anyways.
I know I offended someone. (boo frikken ho )

Flame suit on.

It's got nothing to do with flaming you. You are entitled to your opinion just like I am and I'm OK with that. I am not offended but I do think your statements (about the airbag decapitations) need some facts to back them up. And you won't get any PM's from me. Like I said, everyone is a proffesional driver in there own opinion.

[68w/sbc406]

my friend rear ended a bus at 25 mph in a 95 civic, air bags went off and he got a broken nose

[gmc67swb]

don't know about yall but I would rather have a few scuffs and burns from an air bag than an up close and personal meeting with an A pillar or window.

You're a bad man if you can anticipate ABS...(68cst)I would think that when you felt the ABS kick in is probably when you would've heard the tries start skidding and probably would've still slammed the other vehicle.

As for the pro driver on the closed course..I am with you on that..I saw that on TV with a Vette and the new active stability control..The car was faster with the system off...Again that is with a professional...

[68LSS1]

Longhorn Man, if you take any idoit and lock the tires up you may or may not stop shorter. I doubt it especially if the roads are wet or icy. Why are you anticipating the ABS kicking in? The point of ABS to mash the brakes and still be able to steer while providing maimum braking effort. You can't steer when the tires have lost grip. I will say some ABS systems are better than others but they continue to improve every year. I'd like to see something backing up the dacapitation with airbags also. I know there where problems with the earlier systems that did cause injuries but decapitation? Not that I'm a fan of them but that is a pretty bold statement to make.

[Longhorn Man]

Yes....they did in fact rip the head off a few ppl. They real short ppl who sit 5 inches away from the wheel, throw a pillow at some one @ 300 MPH and see what happens.

As for the ABS... it will generally kick in WAY before lock up. That is why you have to anticipate it.

if you take any idoit and lock the tires up you may or may not stop shorter

Teach ppl to DRIVE cars...not how to operate them.
I tought my wife to drive when she was 18. I showed her how to react in a panic stop situation. I put her in wet parking lots and showed her how to DRIVE.
She has yet to be at fault for an accident, never had a ticket, and ALWAYS impresses me when she drives.
I'm a bit of a controll freak when it comes to driving. I HATE the passenger seat. I'll spend 20 bucks in gas and drive my own car to family functions instead of ride with my dad or my sister.
However, even with that last statement...I feel totally safe with my wife driving.



Woah...look at that, I've already gotten 3 PMs!
Note....I probably won't respond.

[Longhorn Man]

I know you won't send me nasty grams...but like I said...I already have gotten 3.
As for the decapitation...I wish (yet again) I could name my sources...but the source has long since been forgotten.
As for a pro knowing how to push a car further than what the computer would let yoy, it doesn't take a pro, it takes some oen who knows there vehicle.
Again, my wife (and anyone who has paid attention knows i DON'T want to talk good about her here lately) she will drive that little 4 cylinder Contour and make ppl embarased. She knows how to induce a 4 wheel drift if need be, and even how to make a U-turn with the e-brake and never have the speedo drop below 35. She was real fun in a rear wheel drive car. She looked like a stunt 'person'.
She sure isn't the smartest person...and has no interest in anything automotive. "It's just a way to get to where I need to go". That's what she says. No hobby in it, no interest in it...just tought well on how to get the hell out of the situation.