Interior color ? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

68 50th · 12-31-2005, 03:13 PM

All details in the interior on my truck is black (headliner, door panels,dash pad, carpet) but the bench seat is parchment vinyl with black/white cloth insert.
Is that an original correct combo?
Also, what is the correct color for the AC vents and glove box door on a bronze colored truck?
Black or truck color?
I would appreciate if someone could shed some light over this.
Thanks

Longhorn Man · 12-31-2005, 04:45 PM

The A/C vents are kinda funny, I have seen them in body color and in black, both assumed to be original...I know for a fact my old blue longhorn had original paint inside the cab, and they were body color.
I have never seen a Chevy with a glove box door like that. Only on GMC trucks.

nutsforchevys · 12-31-2005, 07:22 PM

I have a hugger orange / white GMC all interior paint is orange except for the glove box. I thought some one had installed a replacement until I opened it and saw the options list from the factory stuck to it. The rest of interior is black with black / white houndstooth seat.

longhorn71 · 12-31-2005, 08:33 PM

my broze cheyenne has a bronze glove box door and a/c vents

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 03:37 AM

Thanks for your answers.
There is no option list on the glove box door so it might not be the original.

stllookn · 01-01-2006, 03:48 AM

68 50th, Post a picture of your truck, inside and outside as well as under the hood. Also look in the seat back (between the springs and the foam) as well as under the seat bottom for the build sheet. You will have to remove the seat to see these. They will help with the original color combination. The model will then narrow the interior options.

**special-K** · 01-01-2006, 08:33 AM

Does your truck have a tilt wheel?They all had black columns and the a/c outlets would be black,too.I`ll bet that`s not the original glovebox door or p.o. painted it.Only GMCs did that contrast.
I agree with Stilookin,I`d like to see where the truck was built.The truck looks Red/Orange like my CheyenneSuper.It had a Parchment interior:houndtooth inserts(b&w),pardhment seat/door panels/headliner,and black dash pad and carpet.I believe black was not a choice in Supers,just Parchment,Olive,or Blue depending on paint color.Blue and Green trucks had two choices.White had three.The rest had Parchment.

70GMCer · 01-01-2006, 08:58 AM

Here's how my 70 GMC 1/2T LWB Custom came. This is a one owner farm truck that I bought, so I know the only thing changed is the seat, so the po told me. Black exterior paint, black dash w/red dash pad, red gauge bezel, red glove box door, red steering wheel & column (non-tilt), red metal door panels with black arm rests, the doors themselves are black, red sun visors, & the inside of the cab itself is black. I don't know about the seat, as it had been redone. My option sheet on the glove box door does not show any of these items except the black paint code. I've been told that GMC did some strange combos. This even has the plastic chrome trim for the head liner, but no evidence that a head liner had ever been there.

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 10:14 AM

Here are some pics of the truck. I have started to take it apart for restoration.
It has Cheyenne Super badges on the fenders, upper and lower (woodgrain) moldings, woodgrain tail gate band.
I have changed the column to a van tilt, the one in the truck when I bought it was a black non tilt.
There is also another strange thing with it, VIN# on the door pillar (CE241Z646752) says 1971 Fremont built but almost all details that I know is different 71/72 are 72 details, like doors, rear weiv mirror, motor mounts.
I haven't found a VIN# on the frame, I believe it should be located on the left frame rail close to the motor mount location.
It appears to me that some PO changed one of the frame rails, all crossmembers are bolted on one side or the other and the holes for the bed monting bolts are round on the left rail and a little oval on the right rail.
I have had the seat out of the truck to look for a built sheet but there wasn't any to find.
The glove box door may be from a GMC since it is black, another more obvious thing that a GMC has been involved is that I found the tail gate to be a GMC tailgate.
Looks like it is a bit of a Frankenstein truck, that doesn't worry me though, it is really rust free and a very good running truck.

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 10:16 AM

Interior pics

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 10:20 AM

More pics

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 10:22 AM

Bed mounting holes in frame.

Longhorn Man · 01-01-2006, 11:34 AM

The vents matching the column comment.... that actually makes sence. Here is one I pirated off the board just today.

I've seen that kind of combo on the past.
Still doesn't explain the black glove box door... but sheds some light on the stupid A/C vents.

**special-K** · 01-01-2006, 02:10 PM

Nice truck,no doubt.I think it`s less of afrankenstein than you may think.It`s probably a`72 built between October and December`71.I think it had a Black interior originally.The seat is probably from the Black CheyenneSuper that the Parchment seat came from.Tailgates get trashed and seats wear out,two common replacements.Camper trucks were common survivors due to limited use.Also a reason to be seperated from it`s tailgate due to removal for camper mounting.It may not be a Super originally.The guage bezel and emblems could have been added.Looks pretty original to me.

**Joesjunk** · 01-01-2006, 02:28 PM

I have parted several Cheyenne Super trucks and certain colors have had black glove box doors. I have all the glove box doors here and they all have option stickers on them. I have yet to figure out why some are painted black?

As far as the A/C vents go. I haven't found a real rhyme or reason for the black verses color matched ones??? My thought has been that the Cheyenne and Cheyenne super got body color ones and Custom Deluxe and down trim trucks got black.????? I have a Blue Cheyenne with black interior and factory tilt wheel, it has blue vents, and I have a Ochre with Parchment interior and it has black ones?? It could be a varation of the different plants they were built at???

Longhorn Man · 01-01-2006, 02:42 PM

My only a/c truck was a 70 CST, blue body and blue vinyl... had the blue vents.

Longhorn Man · 01-01-2006, 02:47 PM

crap, you can hardly see them. I didn't get many pics on that rig before it got bent.

I know I have more, but I think they were never scanned. I'll see if I can't locate them.

**special-K** · 01-01-2006, 04:44 PM

I think,maybe,the 71/72 vents were different.With Parchment interior you got Black vents,column,steering wheel,and dash pad.In`70,a parchment interior got body color vents,then Sandlewood column,steering wheel,and dash pad.

68 50th · 01-01-2006, 06:04 PM

I was also thinking it might be a late 71 or early 72.
Have anyone seen another 72 style truck with a 71 VIN#?
I'm going to have the truck repainted two tone bronze/white and I think let the glove box door and maybe the vents too have a spray of the bronze while I'm at it.
The bench is going to get a new cover too and I'm not sure it I will get a black vinyl with b/w inserts or a parchment vinyl with b/w inserts, I think the black would go better with the other black parts of the interior.
Thanks everyone for all input.

**Joesjunk** · 01-02-2006, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

I think,maybe,the 71/72 vents were different.With Parchment interior you got Black vents,column,steering wheel,and dash pad.In`70,a parchment interior got body color vents,then Sandlewood column,steering wheel,and dash pad.

My 72 3/4 ton (Custom Deluxe) has parchment interior with a Sandlewood column, dash pad, and floor mat and it has black A/C vents.

**special-K** · 01-02-2006, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joesjunk

My 72 3/4 ton (Custom Deluxe) has parchment interior with a Sandlewood column, dash pad, and floor mat and it has black A/C vents.

Ok,I give up.Wait(light bulb),maybe it`s just 71/72 Cheyennes and Supers with parchment that had the black where the rest would have sandlewood?
EDIT:Even that must have depended on the body color.I have a`72 CustomDeluxe w/parchment and med.blue & white 2-tone and it has black,not parchment.

I was just thinking what it must have been like in the design dept. making these decisions in the first place.I gotta chuckle.

**Joesjunk** · 01-02-2006, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

Ok,I give up.Wait(light bulb),maybe it`s just 71/72 Cheyennes and Supers with parchment that had the black where the rest would have sandlewood?

I was just thinking what it must have been like in the design dept. making these decisions in the first place.I gotta chuckle.

Who knows what they were doing back then???????? I don't think they knew!!!

matthufham · 01-02-2006, 03:59 PM

i think you're missing some rust holes on your truck.

67-72williso · 01-02-2006, 05:34 PM

Is there a air relief vent below the VIN. tag? If not its a 71 Cab a 72 rear view and doors. The VIN says its a 71. As for the frame that might be a 72 frame. Does it have the extra braces under the moter mounts? They look like this.
Later Willis

68 50th · 01-02-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 67-72williso

Is there a air relief vent below the VIN. tag? If not its a 71 Cab a 72 rear view and doors. The VIN says its a 71. As for the frame that might be a 72 frame. Does it have the extra braces under the moter mounts? They look like this.
Later Willis

Yes, there is a vent below the VIN tag, I didn't know about that year identification detail.
There is an extra brace on right side only, another sign that one frame rail has been changed.
Thanks for the help.

12-31-2005, 03:13 PM	#1
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Interior color ? All details in the interior on my truck is black (headliner, door panels,dash pad, carpet) but the bench seat is parchment vinyl with black/white cloth insert. Is that an original correct combo? Also, what is the correct color for the AC vents and glove box door on a bronze colored truck? Black or truck color? I would appreciate if someone could shed some light over this. Thanks Attached Images __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

12-31-2005, 04:45 PM	#2
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Interior color ? The A/C vents are kinda funny, I have seen them in body color and in black, both assumed to be original...I know for a fact my old blue longhorn had original paint inside the cab, and they were body color. I have never seen a Chevy with a glove box door like that. Only on GMC trucks.

12-31-2005, 07:22 PM	#3
nutsforchevys Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Stephenville, Texas Posts: 420	Re: Interior color ? I have a hugger orange / white GMC all interior paint is orange except for the glove box. I thought some one had installed a replacement until I opened it and saw the options list from the factory stuck to it. The rest of interior is black with black / white houndstooth seat. __________________ 72 Super Cheyenne lwb 4X4 Ocra / White 88 Chevy 1 ton Dumptruck 88 Chevy 1ton Flat bed 4X4 white

12-31-2005, 08:33 PM	#4
longhorn71 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: CANADA Posts: 1,681	Re: Interior color ? my broze cheyenne has a bronze glove box door and a/c vents

01-01-2006, 03:37 AM	#5
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? Thanks for your answers. There is no option list on the glove box door so it might not be the original. __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-01-2006, 03:48 AM	#6
stllookn Saving 1 truck at a time! Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 6,465	Re: Interior color ? 68 50th, Post a picture of your truck, inside and outside as well as under the hood. Also look in the seat back (between the springs and the foam) as well as under the seat bottom for the build sheet. You will have to remove the seat to see these. They will help with the original color combination. The model will then narrow the interior options. __________________ '68 C20 Longhorn 50th Anniversary 400/TH400 '68 C20 Longhorn 50th Anniversary 468/TH400w/buckets '72 C20 Halfhorn (Longhorn w/o cab and front clip) '69 Flxible Cruiser (look up ugly in the dictionary)

01-01-2006, 08:33 AM	#7
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,851	Re: Interior color ? Does your truck have a tilt wheel?They all had black columns and the a/c outlets would be black,too.I`ll bet that`s not the original glovebox door or p.o. painted it.Only GMCs did that contrast. I agree with Stilookin,I`d like to see where the truck was built.The truck looks Red/Orange like my CheyenneSuper.It had a Parchment interior:houndtooth inserts(b&w),pardhment seat/door panels/headliner,and black dash pad and carpet.I believe black was not a choice in Supers,just Parchment,Olive,or Blue depending on paint color.Blue and Green trucks had two choices.White had three.The rest had Parchment. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~ Last edited by special-K; 01-01-2006 at 08:43 AM.

01-01-2006, 08:58 AM	#8
70GMCer Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Joppa, Maryland Posts: 4,408	Re: Interior color ? Here's how my 70 GMC 1/2T LWB Custom came. This is a one owner farm truck that I bought, so I know the only thing changed is the seat, so the po told me. Black exterior paint, black dash w/red dash pad, red gauge bezel, red glove box door, red steering wheel & column (non-tilt), red metal door panels with black arm rests, the doors themselves are black, red sun visors, & the inside of the cab itself is black. I don't know about the seat, as it had been redone. My option sheet on the glove box door does not show any of these items except the black paint code. I've been told that GMC did some strange combos. This even has the plastic chrome trim for the head liner, but no evidence that a head liner had ever been there. __________________ 1997 GMC Sierra Ext 1965 Mustang Last edited by 70GMCer; 01-01-2006 at 09:03 AM.

01-01-2006, 10:14 AM	#9
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? Here are some pics of the truck. I have started to take it apart for restoration. It has Cheyenne Super badges on the fenders, upper and lower (woodgrain) moldings, woodgrain tail gate band. I have changed the column to a van tilt, the one in the truck when I bought it was a black non tilt. There is also another strange thing with it, VIN# on the door pillar (CE241Z646752) says 1971 Fremont built but almost all details that I know is different 71/72 are 72 details, like doors, rear weiv mirror, motor mounts. I haven't found a VIN# on the frame, I believe it should be located on the left frame rail close to the motor mount location. It appears to me that some PO changed one of the frame rails, all crossmembers are bolted on one side or the other and the holes for the bed monting bolts are round on the left rail and a little oval on the right rail. I have had the seat out of the truck to look for a built sheet but there wasn't any to find. The glove box door may be from a GMC since it is black, another more obvious thing that a GMC has been involved is that I found the tail gate to be a GMC tailgate. Looks like it is a bit of a Frankenstein truck, that doesn't worry me though, it is really rust free and a very good running truck. Attached Images __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-01-2006, 10:16 AM	#10
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? Interior pics Attached Images __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-01-2006, 10:20 AM	#11
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? More pics Attached Images __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-01-2006, 10:22 AM	#12
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? Bed mounting holes in frame. Attached Images __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-01-2006, 11:34 AM	#13
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Interior color ? The vents matching the column comment.... that actually makes sence. Here is one I pirated off the board just today. I've seen that kind of combo on the past. Still doesn't explain the black glove box door... but sheds some light on the stupid A/C vents.

01-01-2006, 02:10 PM	#14
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,851	Re: Interior color ? Nice truck,no doubt.I think it`s less of afrankenstein than you may think.It`s probably a`72 built between October and December`71.I think it had a Black interior originally.The seat is probably from the Black CheyenneSuper that the Parchment seat came from.Tailgates get trashed and seats wear out,two common replacements.Camper trucks were common survivors due to limited use.Also a reason to be seperated from it`s tailgate due to removal for camper mounting.It may not be a Super originally.The guage bezel and emblems could have been added.Looks pretty original to me. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

01-01-2006, 02:28 PM	#15
Joesjunk Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Independence MO. Posts: 7,705	Re: Interior color ? I have parted several Cheyenne Super trucks and certain colors have had black glove box doors. I have all the glove box doors here and they all have option stickers on them. I have yet to figure out why some are painted black? As far as the A/C vents go. I haven't found a real rhyme or reason for the black verses color matched ones??? My thought has been that the Cheyenne and Cheyenne super got body color ones and Custom Deluxe and down trim trucks got black.????? I have a Blue Cheyenne with black interior and factory tilt wheel, it has blue vents, and I have a Ochre with Parchment interior and it has black ones?? It could be a varation of the different plants they were built at??? __________________ 72 3/4t Custom Deluxe 402/auto 66k Original paint 71 3/4t 4x4 Custom Deluxe 10k original miles Original paint 71 3/4t Cheyenne 402 70k original paint 72 3/4t 4x4 Custom deluxe 72 3/4t 4x4 Custom deluxe 91k original paint 72 Cheyenne/30 Dually 69 Camaro SS396 4-speed 13 GMC 2500HD Duramax I bought new 05 Jeep Wrangler "Willys Edition" 12k miles (I bought new) 85 3/4 ton 4x4 Scottsdale 33k miles original paint 86 1 ton 4x4 SRW Silverado 454 restored 80 1 ton 4x4 SRW Silverado 9,434 original miles!! original paint 95 GMC 1 ton dually 4x4 my dad bought new 95 GMC 3/4 ton 4x4, regular cab 454, 31k original miles 2002 2500HD 4x4 regular cab 6.0L 67k miles 2002 2500HD 4x4 regular cab 8.1L 28k miles 2003 GMC 2500HD 4x4 regular cab Diesel 93k miles 67-72 Parts for sale



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01-01-2006, 02:42 PM	#16
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Interior color ? My only a/c truck was a 70 CST, blue body and blue vinyl... had the blue vents. Attached Images

01-01-2006, 02:47 PM	#17
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Interior color ? crap, you can hardly see them. I didn't get many pics on that rig before it got bent. I know I have more, but I think they were never scanned. I'll see if I can't locate them.

01-01-2006, 04:44 PM	#18
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,851	Re: Interior color ? I think,maybe,the 71/72 vents were different.With Parchment interior you got Black vents,column,steering wheel,and dash pad.In`70,a parchment interior got body color vents,then Sandlewood column,steering wheel,and dash pad. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

01-01-2006, 06:04 PM	#19
68 50th Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 833	Re: Interior color ? I was also thinking it might be a late 71 or early 72. Have anyone seen another 72 style truck with a 71 VIN#? I'm going to have the truck repainted two tone bronze/white and I think let the glove box door and maybe the vents too have a spray of the bronze while I'm at it. The bench is going to get a new cover too and I'm not sure it I will get a black vinyl with b/w inserts or a parchment vinyl with b/w inserts, I think the black would go better with the other black parts of the interior. Thanks everyone for all input. __________________ Mats.. ---------------------------------------------------- 1971 Cheyenne Super Custom Camper 475CBB/TH400/AC 1992 Silverado Sport Truck 1988 Silverado 2500 Ext Longbed 4x4 2001 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 1990 Chevrolet K3500 1965 Pontiac Grand Prix 1980 Z 28 350/4-speed/AC/T-top 1980 Camaro Coupe V6/3-speed 1979 Buick Century Wagon

01-02-2006, 03:59 PM	#23
matthufham Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carl Junction, Missouri Posts: 2,061	Re: Interior color ? i think you're missing some rust holes on your truck.

01-02-2006, 05:34 PM	#24
67-72williso Junk/Daily Driver Club Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Manheim, PA 17545 Posts: 253	Re: Interior color ? Is there a air relief vent below the VIN. tag? If not its a 71 Cab a 72 rear view and doors. The VIN says its a 71. As for the frame that might be a 72 frame. Does it have the extra braces under the moter mounts? They look like this. Later Willis Attached Images __________________ Daily Driver: 1970 C-20 400 sbc,sm-465,Dana 61 one ton SRW rear, 3.07 gears, locker. There are three kinds of people: those who make things happen, those who watch things happen, and those who have no idea what happened!

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