Thank you Uncle Sammy....... - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

knsmodels · 03-01-2007, 01:36 AM

Well, I am not sure if this has been discussed on here before but I feel the need to warn everyone here that about 8-10 months ago the EPA stepped in and had the oil manufactures change up their formulas on motor oil and remove the Zinc as the new cars do not require it.....our trucks do require it and running the new oil in our trucks will cause cam failure in new motors....this applies to all flat tappet cams.....there are a couple of manufactures Valvolene VR1 and SHELL ROTELLA that still have the Zinc additives but who knows for how long.......apparently Uncle Sam did not see any need to publicly announce this to anyone running older cars but GM has a memo that tells their service people to put an additive in older cars with flat tappet camshafts.....sorry to drag this on but I had the need to vent......I found out the hard way when my newly rebuilt 350 wiped the cam at all of 11,000 miles in my stock 72.......if this has already been posted then I think there should be a sticky somewhere to let everyone know.....

Thanks

KAILUAZ · 03-01-2007, 01:48 AM

Great, whats next, replace my 350 with electric motor?

stsalvage · 03-01-2007, 05:04 AM

thanks i will let the people here now and i will spead the word mabey i can have my mother write a letter to J Lennal late night TV show he has enough pull to make it facted

GREASEMONKEY72 · 03-01-2007, 05:58 AM

so are trucks have flat tappet cams and all the oil out there is bad for our cams now??? damn i hate the government

arkracing · 03-01-2007, 07:44 AM

did you break in the cam???? - that is usually the main cause of early cam failure.

You ARE correct about the zinc & phosphate content of the newer motor oils though.

Read through ALL of this before firing up the new cam:
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107853

68C15 · 03-01-2007, 08:40 AM

I was reading the same thing recently in Hot Rod. they suggest an additive from GM with each oil change. it is GM # 12345501 (cam/lifter pre-lube).
this article is VERY good reading.

killer71 · 03-01-2007, 10:50 AM

excuse the ignorance but what is a "flat tappet cam?" Is there a way to know if you have one?

woodridge · 03-01-2007, 12:12 PM

Excellent post. When GM eliminated the oil hole in the rods the number of cam failures sky rocketed,most engines I build I add these back. . Maybe we need to add some HP gear lube at the oil change.

I think the oil companies are headed for some law suits if they don't do some public awareness campaigns.

67ChevyRedneck · 03-01-2007, 12:18 PM

What do you mean by "new?" Would my 2000 truck be affected? So I have to add an additive to the oil changes in my 67 now????

Does this only apply to installing an aftermarket cam???

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 12:58 PM

first of all... this wasn't the govornment's doing...this was the automakers telling the gov to do it. The OEMs have been trying to get the gov to do this for years, becouse the emissions from the old high zink oil was clogging up catilitic converters, plus, it was just increased emissions, making it harder to certify a new model/year of auto.
The OEMs argued that the only disadvantage to the new oil formulas, is on engines with a flat tappet cam, which they haven't made any since the late 80's.
The zink levels have already been dropped, and if you are running an oil formulated for a gas engine, then yes, you are increasing the wear on your cam.

A safe bet to genericly say, if your engine was made before 88, it's a flat tappet cam. You can retrofit old blocks for roller cams, or, just get a late model core on your next build.
Diesel formulated oils have lost some zink, and the will lose more in the future.
this has been discuissed through 5 or 6 threads that I have seen, but obviously, there will always be ppl who didn't see it.

killer71 · 03-01-2007, 01:12 PM

so if you buy a new crate engine from general motors what should you do?

muddpile · 03-01-2007, 01:22 PM

I've heard that Zinc additive from GM works well, and I've also heard Mobil 1 0w40 European formula has tons of zinc in it as well. I'm not sure what I'll use, but I know any rebuild will get a roller cam (although the price for the conversion is out of this world...)

Zonaman · 03-01-2007, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

.
The OEMs argued that the only disadvantage to the new oil formulas, is on engines with a flat tappet cam, which they haven't made any since the late 80's.
.

OK, so if I've got one of those "hencho en Mexico" Goodwrench crate 350's with a 1996 casting mark on the block, and Mobil 1 in the pan, I can sleep easy?

Thanks.

arkracing · 03-01-2007, 05:55 PM

OK - lots of stuff being thrown around in here about the lack of zinc etc.

WAS THE CAM PROPERLY BROKEN IN?????!!!!!! if you started a new motor with a new cam and let it idle - it was not broken in.

If you are worried about your older motor - run some Shell Rotella Deisel oil in it.

The GM addative shouldn't be used with every oil change.

Crane Cams makes some break-in lube (that supposedly can be used @ every oil change)

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

grebus1 · 03-01-2007, 06:04 PM

Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type?

knsmodels · 03-01-2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grebus1

Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type?

as was said I would think any engine with flat tappet cam and lifters would be at risk (maybe lawnmowers, powerwashers, and any other small engine as well)......I know I will probably go roller with my BB Chevelle when I redo the engine this spring......

ks147j111928 · 03-01-2007, 10:11 PM

Ah, screw it all... I'm gonna stick to 20w50 for my 292. Works good so far! Maybe straight up 30wt if I can get it...

killer71 · 03-01-2007, 01:32 PM

Can u get this additive from auto parts store? This is all new to me!

67ChevyRedneck · 03-01-2007, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer71

Can u get this additive from auto parts store? This is all new to me!

Same here!

Thanks for the post Andy. Is GM the only place to get the additive?

68 P.O.S. · 03-01-2007, 02:01 PM

Are performance oils like Royal Purple affected as well? Or is it all oils?

Bishops Trucks · 03-01-2007, 02:03 PM

Thanks for the info.

brak · 03-01-2007, 02:03 PM

As i always say...

When you hug a tree, you screw a car guy

Longhorn Man · 03-01-2007, 02:48 PM

Red line is.. as far as I know, the only 10/30 oil that did not remove the zink. (to say removed, is a little inacurate, there is still a little in there)
With that being said, it is actua;lly against FEDERAL smog laws to run saif red line oil in your 2007 or newer gassoline car/truck.
There was a couple other places that had the zink additive... I can't find where I put all my zink oil info though...
68C15 do you still have that article? I think I remember 2 or 3 companies making that additive, not just GM. Do you have that info?

grebus1 · 03-01-2007, 03:39 PM

Some further discussion on this topic is here:

http://www.streetrodtech.com/forums/...641b6dc4abb994

Also, what about those of us with over 200K on the original engine? Should we be overly concerned?

knsmodels · 03-01-2007, 03:54 PM

I do not know how this affects high mileage motors......my motor was built about 18 months ago.......everything seemed fine for the first 10,000 miles....cam started to break down after that mark......now I just need to decide on replacing the cam and running the additive or switch to hydraulic roller cam/lifters........

03-01-2007, 01:36 AM	#1
knsmodels I make Models Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bucks, PA Posts: 626	Thank you Uncle Sammy......Update...... Well, I am not sure if this has been discussed on here before but I feel the need to warn everyone here that about 8-10 months ago the EPA stepped in and had the oil manufactures change up their formulas on motor oil and remove the Zinc as the new cars do not require it.....our trucks do require it and running the new oil in our trucks will cause cam failure in new motors....this applies to all flat tappet cams.....there are a couple of manufactures Valvolene VR1 and SHELL ROTELLA that still have the Zinc additives but who knows for how long.......apparently Uncle Sam did not see any need to publicly announce this to anyone running older cars but GM has a memo that tells their service people to put an additive in older cars with flat tappet camshafts.....sorry to drag this on but I had the need to vent......I found out the hard way when my newly rebuilt 350 wiped the cam at all of 11,000 miles in my stock 72.......if this has already been posted then I think there should be a sticky somewhere to let everyone know..... Thanks __________________ Click to see what I do 1972 LWB K10 350/4 sp 1968 SS Chevelle 396/tremac5spd Last edited by knsmodels; 03-05-2007 at 02:23 PM.

03-01-2007, 01:48 AM	#2
KAILUAZ King of Rust Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: St Petersburg, FL Posts: 359	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Great, whats next, replace my 350 with electric motor? __________________ 1970 GMC 2500, 350, TH400, front disks, thats it! My Pics

03-01-2007, 05:04 AM	#3
stsalvage Scrapper 1 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Riverside Calif Posts: 1,649	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... thanks i will let the people here now and i will spead the word mabey i can have my mother write a letter to J Lennal late night TV show he has enough pull to make it facted

03-01-2007, 05:58 AM	#4
GREASEMONKEY72 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bakersfield,CA Posts: 7,893	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... so are trucks have flat tappet cams and all the oil out there is bad for our cams now??? damn i hate the government __________________ -steven Alte Seele S.S. "Allison" '72 C/10 LWB 350SB/TH350 - DD PITBULL IS NOT A CRIME

03-01-2007, 07:44 AM	#5
arkracing Weekend Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CT Posts: 1,787	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... did you break in the cam???? - that is usually the main cause of early cam failure. You ARE correct about the zinc & phosphate content of the newer motor oils though. Read through ALL of this before firing up the new cam: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107853 __________________ -'07 GMC Sierra K2500HD -'66 C10 Suburban -'68/'71 K20 Service Bed Project -'69 Chevy C30 Mason Dump -'33Ford P/U 396ChevyPowered Last edited by arkracing; 03-01-2007 at 07:46 AM.

03-01-2007, 08:40 AM	#6
68C15 blood type; Retumbo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: next to my reloading bench Posts: 10,269	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... I was reading the same thing recently in Hot Rod. they suggest an additive from GM with each oil change. it is GM # 12345501 (cam/lifter pre-lube). this article is VERY good reading.

03-01-2007, 10:50 AM	#7
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... excuse the ignorance but what is a "flat tappet cam?" Is there a way to know if you have one? __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

03-01-2007, 12:12 PM	#8
woodridge Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Maynardville, Tn Posts: 3,030	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Excellent post. When GM eliminated the oil hole in the rods the number of cam failures sky rocketed,most engines I build I add these back. . Maybe we need to add some HP gear lube at the oil change. I think the oil companies are headed for some law suits if they don't do some public awareness campaigns. __________________ SEMA Network- Protect our Hobby! 71 C30 in pieces, starting to come together. Click here for A Place For Tennessee Truck Enthusiest To Meet

03-01-2007, 12:18 PM	#9
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... What do you mean by "new?" Would my 2000 truck be affected? So I have to add an additive to the oil changes in my 67 now???? Does this only apply to installing an aftermarket cam??? __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! Last edited by 67ChevyRedneck; 03-01-2007 at 12:20 PM.

03-01-2007, 12:58 PM	#10
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... first of all... this wasn't the govornment's doing...this was the automakers telling the gov to do it. The OEMs have been trying to get the gov to do this for years, becouse the emissions from the old high zink oil was clogging up catilitic converters, plus, it was just increased emissions, making it harder to certify a new model/year of auto. The OEMs argued that the only disadvantage to the new oil formulas, is on engines with a flat tappet cam, which they haven't made any since the late 80's. The zink levels have already been dropped, and if you are running an oil formulated for a gas engine, then yes, you are increasing the wear on your cam. A safe bet to genericly say, if your engine was made before 88, it's a flat tappet cam. You can retrofit old blocks for roller cams, or, just get a late model core on your next build. Diesel formulated oils have lost some zink, and the will lose more in the future. this has been discuissed through 5 or 6 threads that I have seen, but obviously, there will always be ppl who didn't see it.

03-01-2007, 01:12 PM	#11
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... so if you buy a new crate engine from general motors what should you do? __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

03-01-2007, 01:22 PM	#12
muddpile Registered User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 1,371	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... I've heard that Zinc additive from GM works well, and I've also heard Mobil 1 0w40 European formula has tons of zinc in it as well. I'm not sure what I'll use, but I know any rebuild will get a roller cam (although the price for the conversion is out of this world...) __________________ 1964 Chevy Short Fleet: Tornado 1972 Chevy C10: Fast Orange Secondaries Wide Open

03-01-2007, 05:55 PM	#14
arkracing Weekend Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: CT Posts: 1,787	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... OK - lots of stuff being thrown around in here about the lack of zinc etc. WAS THE CAM PROPERLY BROKEN IN?????!!!!!! if you started a new motor with a new cam and let it idle - it was not broken in. If you are worried about your older motor - run some Shell Rotella Deisel oil in it. The GM addative shouldn't be used with every oil change. Crane Cams makes some break-in lube (that supposedly can be used @ every oil change) http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku Attached Images __________________ -'07 GMC Sierra K2500HD -'66 C10 Suburban -'68/'71 K20 Service Bed Project -'69 Chevy C30 Mason Dump -'33Ford P/U 396ChevyPowered Last edited by arkracing; 03-01-2007 at 06:01 PM.

03-01-2007, 06:04 PM	#15
grebus1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 322	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Knsmodels--you specify small blocks, is there a reason big blocks wouldn't be prone to damage of this type? __________________ '72 Chevy Suburban Custom Deluxe 10, 402/TH400

03-01-2007, 10:11 PM	#17
ks147j111928 ASE Certified Spoon Operator Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Posts: 157	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Ah, screw it all... I'm gonna stick to 20w50 for my 292. Works good so far! Maybe straight up 30wt if I can get it... __________________ My six is bigger than your eight 67 K20 292 +.060" SM465 NP203 3.73s 86 4Runner, the daily on 31s 85 4Runner, the wheeler on 38s 92 x-cab truggy project for 2017... tons and 42s and V8 power



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03-01-2007, 01:32 PM	#18
killer71 Registered User Join Date: May 2006 Location: at work Posts: 2,552	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Can u get this additive from auto parts store? This is all new to me! __________________ R.I.P. Killer 71 10/26/07

03-01-2007, 02:01 PM	#20
68 P.O.S. Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Puyallup, WA Posts: 1,662	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Are performance oils like Royal Purple affected as well? Or is it all oils?

03-01-2007, 02:03 PM	#21
Bishops Trucks KEEP ON TRUCKIN' Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Sterling, Va. Posts: 5,730	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Thanks for the info. __________________ JIM '97 GMC Sierra K1500 '95 Chevy Silverado C1500 '71 Cheyenne Z71 / LT1 & 4-Speed SWB K/10 Father/Son Project http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l689JKXPnA http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/payments.php "LIVIN' FREE FOREVER"

03-01-2007, 02:03 PM	#22
brak Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: MinneSNOWta Posts: 1,381	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... As i always say... When you hug a tree, you screw a car guy __________________ 2003 GMC Sierra 1500 WT 1995 Nissan Hardbody 2016 Hyundai Veloster Turbo DC2 (SW/AW) Clyde W. Harvey USN "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery" Winston Churchill

03-01-2007, 02:48 PM	#23
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,690	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Red line is.. as far as I know, the only 10/30 oil that did not remove the zink. (to say removed, is a little inacurate, there is still a little in there) With that being said, it is actua;lly against FEDERAL smog laws to run saif red line oil in your 2007 or newer gassoline car/truck. There was a couple other places that had the zink additive... I can't find where I put all my zink oil info though... 68C15 do you still have that article? I think I remember 2 or 3 companies making that additive, not just GM. Do you have that info?

03-01-2007, 03:39 PM	#24
grebus1 Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Location: Edmonds, WA Posts: 322	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... Some further discussion on this topic is here: http://www.streetrodtech.com/forums/...641b6dc4abb994 Also, what about those of us with over 200K on the original engine? Should we be overly concerned? __________________ '72 Chevy Suburban Custom Deluxe 10, 402/TH400

03-01-2007, 03:54 PM	#25
knsmodels I make Models Join Date: May 2005 Location: Bucks, PA Posts: 626	Re: Thank you Uncle Sammy....... I do not know how this affects high mileage motors......my motor was built about 18 months ago.......everything seemed fine for the first 10,000 miles....cam started to break down after that mark......now I just need to decide on replacing the cam and running the additive or switch to hydraulic roller cam/lifters........ __________________ Click to see what I do 1972 LWB K10 350/4 sp 1968 SS Chevelle 396/tremac5spd Last edited by knsmodels; 03-01-2007 at 03:56 PM.

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